owel
Well-known member
Bauman,
What's the latest on the API PCBs? Have you shipped them yet?
What's the latest on the API PCBs? Have you shipped them yet?
Pictures of my first DIY - Seventh Circle A12 A*P*I* clone
- Thread starter Category 5
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Category 5
Well-known member
Fabio,
Great news about your API pres coming out great. The Cinemag/Profile option seems to be the clsest to the real 312 since those are the transformers that API has used in the 312. Get the real 2520 and you're pretty much there.
I am still eager to hear about your op-amp project, and get some PCBs from you if they are dandy (and available). Let us know how that went.
Shane
Great news about your API pres coming out great. The Cinemag/Profile option seems to be the clsest to the real 312 since those are the transformers that API has used in the 312. Get the real 2520 and you're pretty much there.
I am still eager to hear about your op-amp project, and get some PCBs from you if they are dandy (and available). Let us know how that went.
Shane
owel
Well-known member
[quote author="Bauman"]Ruel, this was the last info I've posted:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26752#26752
Not good, but the real facts...
cheers!
Fabio[/quote]
Okay, I just lost track of this.... glad it's still a go, just delayed.
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26752#26752
Not good, but the real facts...
cheers!
Fabio[/quote]
Okay, I just lost track of this.... glad it's still a go, just delayed.
Category 5
Well-known member
The transformers I have are CMMI-8PCA. I don't have access to a 312 right now, but I think I know someone who might be willing to let me borrow one for a comparison. Going from memory though it just about gives the API sound that we all know. ...just like most Neve variants, despite sounding alightly different, all give you that "neve" sound.
I would imagine that, with a real 2520, the A12 is pretty much as close as anything. I mean, even all variations of the 312 don't sound exactly alike - depending on the year and the components used.
Shane
I would imagine that, with a real 2520, the A12 is pretty much as close as anything. I mean, even all variations of the 312 don't sound exactly alike - depending on the year and the components used.
Shane
kato
Well-known member
[quote author="Category 5"]
The Mic2 is a MXL990 ($60.00 at www.jrrshop.com) and one of the best kept secrets in budget mics.
Shane[/quote]
Seriously????
Does it sound any better than the V67?
I paid $99 for the V67 after reading *RAVE* reviews.
I found it kind of blah.
The Mic2 is a MXL990 ($60.00 at www.jrrshop.com) and one of the best kept secrets in budget mics.
Shane[/quote]
Seriously????
Does it sound any better than the V67?
I paid $99 for the V67 after reading *RAVE* reviews.
I found it kind of blah.
mesmer
Well-known member
I have a brent averill 312. heres pics.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/peterreardon/DSCF0128.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/peterreardon/DSCF0129.jpg
He uses reichenbach transformers.the round one is labeled RE115K-E.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/peterreardon/DSCF0128.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/peterreardon/DSCF0129.jpg
He uses reichenbach transformers.the round one is labeled RE115K-E.
Category 5
Well-known member
[quote author="kato"][quote author="Category 5"]
The Mic2 is a MXL990 ($60.00 at www.jrrshop.com) and one of the best kept secrets in budget mics.
Shane[/quote]
Seriously????
Does it sound any better than the V67?
I paid $99 for the V67 after reading *RAVE* reviews.
I found it kind of blah.[/quote]
I am not a fan of MXL mics, but this one I like. I have not heard a V67 but the 2001 and 2003 are not even close to the 990. Sort of an anomoly where budget mics are concerned.
Shane
The Mic2 is a MXL990 ($60.00 at www.jrrshop.com) and one of the best kept secrets in budget mics.
Shane[/quote]
Seriously????
Does it sound any better than the V67?
I paid $99 for the V67 after reading *RAVE* reviews.
I found it kind of blah.[/quote]
I am not a fan of MXL mics, but this one I like. I have not heard a V67 but the 2001 and 2003 are not even close to the 990. Sort of an anomoly where budget mics are concerned.
Shane
mesmer,
your links don't work. I got in touch with Tim and it looks like the $150 discount is really all you get for getting the Rack, preamp, and assembled powersupply. This is over my budget :sad: for an 8-rack preamp plan. Someone mentioned that SCA's N72 boards used to be something like $40, but now they're "minimal kits" are $89? So, they raised their prices? I'm still trying to outsource the parts for as cheap as possible to make this dream a reality....not having much luck though :sad: .
your links don't work. I got in touch with Tim and it looks like the $150 discount is really all you get for getting the Rack, preamp, and assembled powersupply. This is over my budget :sad: for an 8-rack preamp plan. Someone mentioned that SCA's N72 boards used to be something like $40, but now they're "minimal kits" are $89? So, they raised their prices? I'm still trying to outsource the parts for as cheap as possible to make this dream a reality....not having much luck though :sad: .
Category 5
Well-known member
[quote author="dejacky"]mesmer,
your links don't work. I got in touch with Tim and it looks like the $150 discount is really all you get for getting the Rack, preamp, and assembled powersupply. This is over my budget :sad: for an 8-rack preamp plan. Someone mentioned that SCA's N72 boards used to be something like $40, but now they're "minimal kits" are $89? So, they raised their prices? I'm still trying to outsource the parts for as cheap as possible to make this dream a reality....not having much luck though :sad: .[/quote]
The minimal kits don' just include the PCB but also he Neutrik connectors, the knobs, and the Grayhill 12 position switch. I have tried to see if sourcing the rest of the parts myself would come out cheaper, but I can't seem to get below a $10 savings...and that's with ordering from several different places and waiting on serious lead times in some cases.
Believe me, getting the full kit makes the absolute most sense. You will get everything including the Carnhill transformers, molex connectors, hookup wire, etc.
8 channels of full kit plus the case & PS comes out to 2700. I still see now way to get 8 channels of Neve for that price. Even brent Averils will cost close to that for just 4 channels.
Shane
P.S. Tim mentioned that he now has a 2520 clone op-amp available too. It is $75, but only $40 if bouhgt with the A12 - bringing the A12 kit (complete with op-amp and all parts) to 299.00 just like the N72. Supposedly the only differences between Tim's op-amp and the real 2520 are slightly better CMMR and lower input bias current. Slew rate, distortion, self noise, etc. are all the same. They are not available for another week though, so I haven't tried them yet. I will post my findings when I do.
your links don't work. I got in touch with Tim and it looks like the $150 discount is really all you get for getting the Rack, preamp, and assembled powersupply. This is over my budget :sad: for an 8-rack preamp plan. Someone mentioned that SCA's N72 boards used to be something like $40, but now they're "minimal kits" are $89? So, they raised their prices? I'm still trying to outsource the parts for as cheap as possible to make this dream a reality....not having much luck though :sad: .[/quote]
The minimal kits don' just include the PCB but also he Neutrik connectors, the knobs, and the Grayhill 12 position switch. I have tried to see if sourcing the rest of the parts myself would come out cheaper, but I can't seem to get below a $10 savings...and that's with ordering from several different places and waiting on serious lead times in some cases.
Believe me, getting the full kit makes the absolute most sense. You will get everything including the Carnhill transformers, molex connectors, hookup wire, etc.
8 channels of full kit plus the case & PS comes out to 2700. I still see now way to get 8 channels of Neve for that price. Even brent Averils will cost close to that for just 4 channels.
Shane
P.S. Tim mentioned that he now has a 2520 clone op-amp available too. It is $75, but only $40 if bouhgt with the A12 - bringing the A12 kit (complete with op-amp and all parts) to 299.00 just like the N72. Supposedly the only differences between Tim's op-amp and the real 2520 are slightly better CMMR and lower input bias current. Slew rate, distortion, self noise, etc. are all the same. They are not available for another week though, so I haven't tried them yet. I will post my findings when I do.
Category 5
Well-known member
[quote author="dejacky"]What about an alternate cheaper power supply? Any suggestions? :razz:[/quote]
I am sure you could find plenty that will work just fine. As long as you have 27volts, 48 volts, and enough current for 8 modules.
However, keep in mind that if you buy the case and at least one module the PS turns out to be free (ala discount) if you don't get the PS you don't get the discount and the price is the same.
Also, there isn't a lot of room left over in the case for playing around. This thing is pretty stuffed with a PS and 8 modules.
Shane
I am sure you could find plenty that will work just fine. As long as you have 27volts, 48 volts, and enough current for 8 modules.
However, keep in mind that if you buy the case and at least one module the PS turns out to be free (ala discount) if you don't get the PS you don't get the discount and the price is the same.
Also, there isn't a lot of room left over in the case for playing around. This thing is pretty stuffed with a PS and 8 modules.
Shane
kato
Well-known member
[quote author="Category 5"]
I am not a fan of MXL mics, but this one I like. I have not heard a V67 but the 2001 and 2003 are not even close to the 990. Sort of an anomoly where budget mics are concerned.
Shane[/quote]
Wow, I finally got your samples to download and it was eye-opening.
I guess coupled with the right preamp, that MXL is quite good. It helps that you have a good singer to record.
mic 2 (990) with the NV1272 was quite beautiful.
the same mic with the 312 was a bit rude. I guess the 312 is clear enought to accentuate the bad. (either in the mic, the voice, the room, I dunno)
It's funny that I disagree with the earlier poster who liked the 'buzz' imparted by the 'buzz' - i thought this was the worst of the batch. I wanted to run away from the voice. (listening loud with headphones.)
but then again, within the mix it might rule (just like the other poster said.)
Wow, thanks for the samples. That was fun,
Kato
I am not a fan of MXL mics, but this one I like. I have not heard a V67 but the 2001 and 2003 are not even close to the 990. Sort of an anomoly where budget mics are concerned.
Shane[/quote]
Wow, I finally got your samples to download and it was eye-opening.
I guess coupled with the right preamp, that MXL is quite good. It helps that you have a good singer to record.
mic 2 (990) with the NV1272 was quite beautiful.
the same mic with the 312 was a bit rude. I guess the 312 is clear enought to accentuate the bad. (either in the mic, the voice, the room, I dunno)
It's funny that I disagree with the earlier poster who liked the 'buzz' imparted by the 'buzz' - i thought this was the worst of the batch. I wanted to run away from the voice. (listening loud with headphones.)
but then again, within the mix it might rule (just like the other poster said.)
Wow, thanks for the samples. That was fun,
Kato
Category 5
Well-known member
I personally thought the Buzz, while clean and very precise sounding, lacked the character of the SCA pres. All three, even the J99 had a considerable sweetness to them (i.e. color) that the Buzz was missing.
If you go the with the Massenburg philosophy of "color at the mic pre is the wrong place to get it" then the Buzz beats all 3 of the others, but from my perspective the SCA pres (all 3) add some serious musicality that would be hard to get after the fact. Id opt to go with any of these over the Buzz in most cases.
Of course if I was recording an unfamiliar instrument or vocalist, and wasn't quite sure what color I wanted I'd go with the Buzz or a GML and worry about EQ later. At least this way you don't run the risk of finding later that the track is to heavily colored to use.
Shane
If you go the with the Massenburg philosophy of "color at the mic pre is the wrong place to get it" then the Buzz beats all 3 of the others, but from my perspective the SCA pres (all 3) add some serious musicality that would be hard to get after the fact. Id opt to go with any of these over the Buzz in most cases.
Of course if I was recording an unfamiliar instrument or vocalist, and wasn't quite sure what color I wanted I'd go with the Buzz or a GML and worry about EQ later. At least this way you don't run the risk of finding later that the track is to heavily colored to use.
Shane
I'm using some carwin vega alleged "hifi" speakers so it could just be the way I hear the sounds. But, the Buzz Audio MA2.2 preamp had this sort-of "balanced" sound character that I really liked. I still liked all the SCA preamps and their color, but they seemed to emphasize a little more "crispiness" in the high end. Personally, I hate "sizzle" and all those overly-bright characteristics of many cheap chinese mics/preamp combos. Again..it's just what I'm hearing and all constructive brain storming via subjective analysis is welcome :grin: . Also, were the source sounds recorded once and the signal split to all preamps simultaneously? :thumb:
kato
Well-known member
[quote author="dejacky"]I'm using some carwin vega alleged "hifi" speakers so it could just be the way I hear the sounds. But, the Buzz Audio MA2.2 preamp had this sort-of "balanced" sound character that I really liked. I still liked all the SCA preamps and their color, but they seemed to emphasize a little more "crispiness" in the high end. Personally, I hate "sizzle" and all those overly-bright characteristics of many cheap chinese mics/preamp combos. Again..it's just what I'm hearing and all constructive brain storming via subjective analysis is welcome :grin: . Also, were the source sounds recorded once and the signal split to all preamps simultaneously? :thumb:[/quote]
Hi DeJacky,
I can definitely see someone picking the 47/buzz combo as their first choice. I think all the tracks sound quite good, but especially the 47 tracks. I wouldn't hesitate to use any of them except maybe the 312 version. I hear the sizzly top boost you're talking about with the 1272. Not sure I like it.
The buzz track is too real for me. I felt like the singer was sitting in my lap. Perhaps I just have intimacy issues. Perhaps with a music bed it would rule.
Pay no mind to my opinion; I'm listening with $25 Sony headphones I bought at a bookstore...
Kato
Hi DeJacky,
I can definitely see someone picking the 47/buzz combo as their first choice. I think all the tracks sound quite good, but especially the 47 tracks. I wouldn't hesitate to use any of them except maybe the 312 version. I hear the sizzly top boost you're talking about with the 1272. Not sure I like it.
The buzz track is too real for me. I felt like the singer was sitting in my lap. Perhaps I just have intimacy issues. Perhaps with a music bed it would rule.
Pay no mind to my opinion; I'm listening with $25 Sony headphones I bought at a bookstore...
Kato
Category 5
Well-known member
[quote author="dejacky"] Also, were the source sounds recorded once and the signal split to all preamps simultaneously? :thumb:[/quote]
Those samples were provided to me by David Kakon on the UAD forum and they were not split into the same preamp. They were made by multiple takes. They were subjectively gain matched but not scientifically. The folks at the 3d-Audio forum swear that any comparison done without precise voltage gain matching is useless and inconclusive, but I contest that if that's the case than trying different mics in session is equality inconclusive (and I know that to be untrue).
When I get some time (after I build my N72s) I will do some male vocal comparisons as well as acouctic guitar/mandolin. If I feel the need I will do precise gain matching too.
Shane
Those samples were provided to me by David Kakon on the UAD forum and they were not split into the same preamp. They were made by multiple takes. They were subjectively gain matched but not scientifically. The folks at the 3d-Audio forum swear that any comparison done without precise voltage gain matching is useless and inconclusive, but I contest that if that's the case than trying different mics in session is equality inconclusive (and I know that to be untrue).
When I get some time (after I build my N72s) I will do some male vocal comparisons as well as acouctic guitar/mandolin. If I feel the need I will do precise gain matching too.
Shane
kato
Well-known member
[quote author="Category 5"] They were made by multiple takes. They were subjectively gain matched but not scientifically. [/quote]
Some of the vocal takes were simply better vocal performances and I wondered as i listened how much that was affecting my opinion.
There was also one take in particular that I felt sounded better due only to being higher gain (can't remember offhand which that was.)
Some of the vocal takes were simply better vocal performances and I wondered as i listened how much that was affecting my opinion.
There was also one take in particular that I felt sounded better due only to being higher gain (can't remember offhand which that was.)
