product ergonomics

[Gold]

My Prism AD went down too a few months ago. Must be sun spots. I had to use the Blue while that got fixed.  The Prism captures tape better than anything I've used. Capturing tape is a torture test  for a converter.  The Blue doesn't compare. The Prisms are hideously expensive so it's not exactly a fair comparison.

I use a Blue DA for the lathe preview and also my "flat" setting when mastering. I use two instances of a file so I can use plugins on the source before the DA. The Prism feeds
The analog processing chain. I A /B them all day every day. The Blue DA I find  better than the AD. It's a little softer sounding than the Prism but I like it.

 

[bluebird]

Interesting! I guess it wouldn't matter for me because I'm so good, I could blow people away with Behringer converters. ;D

I use the Lavrys for digital mastering because I have a good feel for how the A/D clips and it the subtlest I've heard. To a point.

For cutting I use the new Avid 192's. Preview and program. I'm pretty much straight into the lathe, all gain control is in Pro Tools.
I have a less is better philosophy with cutting since etching music into nail polish is pretty much all the analog mojo I'd ever want...Only down side is its not nearly as bad ass looking as your setup!!!!

 

[Gold]

I started with a  LynxII card, then got the Lavry Blues then got the Prisms. I've offered no refunds so far.  It's certainly not a make or break thing. You pay a lot for the last few percent.

I think I'm going to sell the Blues and get a pair of Mytek Brooklyn DAs.  They do 192K  and DSD which the others don't. That will allow  me to cut from DSD. Not that many people want it but I'd like to offer it.

The Prism AD clips really well but I rarely do it.  Sterling uses Prisms mostly so you've heard them slammed on a lot of stuff.

 

[Gold]

The path to the lathe is pretty minimal. It goes through the input amp, then the Maselec HFL, then the HPF/LPF  then the EE, then the output amp.

Despite the big knobs it's all IC opamp and very clean.

 

[JohnRoberts]

There's no recipe to follow towards success in this regard, but there are products that are most famous for the ridiculous over processed sounds their extreme control ranges allow.  The designers surely didn't expect those ranges to eventually be perceived as features. 

In rebuilding and expanding the control features of many old tube limiters, release times shorter than make sense, and/or attack times longer than make sense are usually greeted with joy, for the special effect distortions they allow.  more color, man.... If you were using them solely as limiters, you'd not go there, but most people seem to use limiters in recording for something other than limiting these days.

I expected most customers to use products for the intended purpose, especially MI value products (like Peavey).  Back in the old days when people would shop in stores (anybody remember back then?) , how a product sounded in the store at point of sale, mattered. It was fairly routine for customers to abandon products on the shop floor set for the most horrible sound. The next customer walks up to a horrible first impression and often doesn't bother getting a second impression. 

I've seen it happen in trade show booths too, with prototypes that weren't fully dialed in. First thing I do when I return to a demo was to see what last customer was listening to.

JR

 

[Gold]

You said it's very clean.  Do you mean does the work and has no influence over tone or dynamics either way

Right , the transfer path is supposed to be 'straight wire with gain'.  It has the minimum necessary processing for lacquer cutting. I can engage processing gear ( EQ and compression) if I need it but it is normally not in the transfer path.

 

[bluebird]

Sterling uses Prisms mostly so you've heard them slammed on a lot of stuff.

Lol, yes and I cut a lot of stuff from Sterling. There is so many instances of bad distortion on the masters I get from them, I am constantly checking my sync thinking I'm hearing clocking issues. I actually use de-crackling plugins on they're stuff before I put it to the lacquer...So maybe not the best endorsement for Prism

Sorry no more OT from me...

I love the larger 2-1/2" RCA knobs. I use them on the stuff I build and nobody makes them so I pay around $40/ea on eBay when I can get a good one. The smaller ones are more available. Something about that shape really feels right with the fingers.

 

[Matt C]

regarding ergonomics, this is why I can't stand any of the digital reverb/multi-FX units I've owned.  The one I have now is practically impossible to use without consulting the owner's manual to see what each setting is going to give you, because there's no indication on the front panel. yuck.

 

[Gold]

Lol, yes and I cut a lot of stuff from Sterling.

Not from the late great Tom Coyne. That dude was the best at loud and clean. Seriously impressive. Phil S is a really great tech too. He's a friend and has taught me a lot. The technical installation there is second to none. I can't speak for the guys who do the grunt work.

My knobs are OKW. They sell small quantities and it's easy to shuffle collets around to cover imperial and metric shaft sizes. I like soft plastic knobs better than metal or phenolic.

 

[pvision]

I started with a  LynxII card, then got the Lavry Blues then got the Prisms.

That's a true First World Cutting Engineer problem right there - "I got the Lavry Blues"

Nick Froome

 

[bluebird]

Lol, Thats funny Nick...

Not from the late great Tom Coyne.

I don't check the names, but as an example I cut the last Halsey album "Fountain Kingdom". I felt it was pretty inexcusable distortion wise. I probably shouldn't even be talking about this but it can be frustrating. I used to ask for the unmastered mixes to cut from of titles that were too pushed and distorted, but the labels are always reluctant because of the time, effort, and money involved to get the engineer/producers ok, and to get the files over to me. Seems every single release is on some crazy release date deadline and the last thing the label has is extra time. So unfortunately I'm now use to just cutting whats given to me keeping my mouth shut and doing the best I can.

This is usually only a problem with the big name releases. I also feel the pressure to be "competitive" has every stage of production pushing the limits and psych's out a normally good engineer to make bad decisions, especially in pop and hip hop.
But that's another topic.

 

[Gold]

I happily used the Blues for over 10 years.  Like  I said, I've offered no refunds.  I'm not precious about equipment.  I'd be able to get it done with whatever is thrown in front of me.

On the subject of distorted masters. It seems to be over but five years ago indie rock had extreme clipping as part of the sound. Massive distortion. I just figured out how to cut it. Now it's supe wide mixes that  need special treatment.

My favorite knobs are the General Radio knobs. The grey pointers and the grey round.  I wanted everything to match so it wasn't an option.

 

[bluebird]

That would have been a sight to behold, I really like those too. You could start collecting and switch over some day...

 

[Gold]

The General Radio are for D shafts. I needed collet and a wide variety of them. It's not an option if I want everything to "match".

 

[JohnRoberts]

Lol, Thats funny Nick...

I don't check the names, but as an example I cut the last Halsey album "Fountain Kingdom". I felt it was pretty inexcusable distortion wise. I probably shouldn't even be talking about this but it can be frustrating. I used to ask for the unmastered mixes to cut from of titles that were too pushed and distorted, but the labels are always reluctant because of the time, effort, and money involved to get the engineer/producers ok, and to get the files over to me. Seems every single release is on some crazy release date deadline and the last thing the label has is extra time. So unfortunately I'm now use to just cutting whats given to me keeping my mouth shut and doing the best I can.

This is usually only a problem with the big name releases. I also feel the pressure to be "competitive" has every stage of production pushing the limits and psych's out a normally good engineer to make bad decisions, especially in pop and hip hop.
But that's another topic.

Perhaps an artifact of the loudness wars and people thinking that clipping is normal.  : 

I have always been unusually sensitive to distortion in circuit path design, but I try to avoid making artistic sound decisions, for others.  (I don't consider a linear audio path a sound decision, more like a clean canvas.)

JR

 

[bluebird]

Perhaps an artifact of the loudness wars and people thinking that clipping is normal.  : 

Oh definitely, since there is a lot of transients and distorted synth sounds in that type of music anyhow, you can usually get away with quite a bit of converter clipping before its really audible. But the album I mentioned previously was particularly stripped down to just vocal and a programmed beat on maybe half the songs. This is where you could hear digital fuzz and crackling on some of the sustained vocal notes. It was very apparent and happened in numerous times throughout the album.
There are tricks to prevent this and it just takes a little more time to go through the song and turn down those particular words or passages. Sometimes you may actually take them down 3-4db. There is so much limiting going on that the volume difference is barley heard between words.

The volume wars arn't over per say, they have just reached a nuclear deadlock. With software limiters everyone automatically smashes everything up to 0dbfs as a default delivery format with pop, rock, hip hop, and R&B.
If I'm lucky, mixers I work with will give me two versions of the mix I am to master. One they have given the client that is limited and smashed up against 0dbfs like a crowd of people trying to escape a burning building, through locked doors. And another that is a decent mix with some headroom to work with. My job is to give the client a master that is both louder, less distorted, and appear to have more transients than the mixers "loud" version. Even if I give the client a better sounding more dynamic master but is a db or 2 quieter, they will think there is something wrong. So that's all I do all day is manipulate distortion and dynamic range at the very top of the digital scale. :-\

P.S. Not all mastering engineers play this game. Some have enough self respect to deliver a master that is not crushed to death and stand behind it. But surprisingly enough the big name houses (Sterling, Gateway, Bernie Grundman) all do it.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

The volume wars arn't over per say,

Not even close!  I've delivered the loudest masters of my 15 year career this last year,  There's much hoopla about Spotify and Youtube volume normalization but if you turn it off in Spotify and listen to the Billboard Hot 100 there is not a single quiet or dynamic master.

It's a service industry, some records needy to be loud, some don't.  Reading the client's needs is just another part of the gig.

 

[bluebird]

It's a service industry, some records needy to be loud, some don't.  Reading the client's needs is just another part of the gig.

Amen brother...

 

[Gold]

The top guys have been there a while. It's not because no one tries to take the work.

 

[Tekay]

I started with a  LynxII card, then got the Lavry Blues then got the Prisms. I've offered no refunds so far.  It's certainly not a make or break thing. You pay a lot for the last few percent.

I think I'm going to sell the Blues and get a pair of Mytek Brooklyn DAs.  They do 192K  and DSD which the others don't. That will allow  me to cut from DSD. Not that many people want it but I'd like to offer it.

The Prism AD clips really well but I rarely do it.  Sterling uses Prisms mostly so you've heard them slammed on a lot of stuff.

Just curious, have you tested the RME ADI-2 Pro? Saw that it does  DSD as well.