Hello there fellow QEE (and Helios) admirers,
Thought I should add a few facts to the discussion
From a tape op article
“Throughout the '60s Quad-Eight was a sales company that had Electrodyne build their consoles, thus many of the early Quad-Eight consoles have Electrodyne stamped on the components inside.
Not exactly true,....
Quad-Eight started as "Quad-Eight Sound" (QES) in 1962 by Bud Bennet. QES built Film-Dub theaters, Editorial Suites and related sound recording/playback/mix systems for the big film studios as well as involvement with many major public Film exhibition theaters. QES would use would use parts from a wide range of vendors (Altec, Langevin, Westen Electric, Westrex, UA....) and found that Electrodyne's invention of the integrated channel strip in 1968 was ideal for building custom Film-Dubbing consoles economically, but QES would build whatever the customer wanted, with any brand parts or modules the studio's engineering staff specified. As I have time, I will scan and post the original QES company brochure and comparable Electrodyne and early QEE channel strip datasheets along with internal pix.
In many cases you would see custom QES consoles that had a lot of Electrodyne parts fitted to the surface, but the Electrodyne logo always remained on those modules faceplates if an Electrodyne part was used (so far I have never seen, nor has ANYONE else ever found or photographed a Quad-Eight module with Electrodyne guts).
The closest thing I have seen to the above quote is several very custom, matching Electrodyne 609L channel modules with multi-color QEE knobs fitted to them. I can certainly pull-up the original drawing out of the Electrodyne/Langevin documents archives for the unique QEE "Hat" knobs, dated before QES became QEE. So they were likely fabricated by Electrodyne, (at QES's request) specifically for console builds where QES was using Electrodyne modules and wanted a distinct look. Additionally, no stock Electrodyne module has ever shown up fitted with these QEE hat knobs, but I have defintely seen Electrodyne and QEE modules mis-identified in pictures as the other brand, despite the fairly clear difference between the engraved logos and specific logo placement for each brand. One of the "popular" rumours is that Quad-Eight simply engraved a "Q" above the Electrodyne "E" for their console builds, but there is not enough space between the top of the E-logo and the modules upper fixing screw countersink hole to do so.
I checked online, and the article is in TapeOp #49 Sept/)ct 2005. In that article, it is CLAIMED:
The next day I come back to work and all our schematics were out all over the place, on the floor with foot prints on them and everything and all our blueprint toner ink was gone. Well, sure enough Bud paid the truck driver for Electrodyne at the time and had come in and copied all our designs. All except the A-1000 op amp design, as we never did a schematic for just that reason!
Shrug.....
Bri
As to the great robbery at Electrodyne, I cannot say what happened at the Electrodyne factory that day (and will not,.. see conversations with Electrodyne and QEE staff below), but it came after QES was weeks away from delivering one of the largest Film-Mix consoles they had ever built, and staff arrived the factory one morning to find that every module (mostly Electrodyne parts) had been stolen along with all the support drawings. (oddly enough, none of those original missing Electrodyne modules has ever turned up, afaik).
Bud went to Electrodyne to purchase replacement modules ASAP and was dissappointed to be told that existing backorders for Electrodyne's wildly successful Music consoles had their manufacturing department backed up for months, and could not help Bud and QES out.
I have spoken at length with Don King, John Hall (Electrodyne founders, RIP) as well as several engineers and production staff from QEE about the "events" at each factory. All had different enough, and such emotionally charged recollections of the Electrodyne factory event, that I could not in good conscience (and especially in respect to good journalism) edit-down and re-tell something that had inadequate corroborating and/or conflicting facts across at least six different people who were actually there.
On the other hand the stories of QEE's response to their loss were close enough from person to person that I could trim off the high and low points and still come up with a coherent and fairly flat-fact story. Overall the tone of those conversations was more like "OK, that just happened (grumble-grumble...) and we still have to deliver a console,.... so here's what we did".
As to QES's position after their loss of all console modules and no way for Electrodyne to replace them in time, the engineering team met at the factory and decided they had been doing this for so long with everyone else parts (modifying stock parts from various companies, designing their own electronics for special functions) that they had the skills to design & build their own modules, so Quad-Eight Electronics (QEE circa 1968) was born.
SO......Yes!, the first QEE modules do look almost identical to Electrodyne channel strips, assign modules, summing and bus amp modules, and some of the switch types were the same brand, but these newly designed QEE modules had to physically fit in the existing console frame that QES had already built and partially wired, and the mix engineers at the film studio were expecting a console that looked and operated the same as ordered.
However!,... the QEE engineers understood that they did not have to use the same internal electronic design, pc board layouts or transformers and had their own advanced ideas about preamp and eq design, operating signal levels and opamp design. As a result, the innards of all QEE gear have little in common with the Electrodyne designs that they had previously used building custom QES products.
Below are just a few examples of how the two brands differ:
-Electrodyne: +24v single ended power, operated as split 12v rails across the opamps.
-QEE: +/28v power (56v total rail swing).
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-Electrodyne A1000 opamp: Fairchild uA709 opamp with transistor current follower.
-QEE AM-3 opamp: 5 transistor all discrete design.
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-Electrodyne: -6db to -12db internal operating level.
-QEE: 0db average internal operating level.
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-Electrodyne eq: Feedback type (cuts and boosts are typically not symmetrical around matching frequencies).
HF Peaking boost only @ 1k5, 3k, 5k, 10k, Shelving cut fixed at 10khz.
LF Shelving boost only @ 40, 100hz, Shelving cut fixed at 100z.
Similar curves to 1960's Altec 9061, Langevin 251 passive eq or Langevin AM-3a feedback eq.
-Quad-Eight eq: Active Reciprocal inductor type (boosts and cuts have equal and opposite curves at each frequency).
HF peaking and shelving @ 1k5, 3k, 5k, 10k.
LF Shelving at 50, 140, 250hz.
Reciprocal eq became new standard in equalization for the late 60's and on through the invention of the gyrator (eg: simulated inductors).
There are far more things that differ, than were in common with Electrodyne vs QEE designs, many are rather small technical details, but all sum up for very different sonics, signal path level handling and a diverging set of features as time went on.
The one thing Electrodyne and QEE did actually share back then (and still do today) is the amazing sonics and design innovation of custom wound Reichenbach/Cinemag transformer and inductors, still made today with the same relentless attention to detail and quality as when they were first designed (wow,... that sounded like a shameless plug.....) ok, well deserved,... but still,...I do love what those magnetics uniquely do for vintage and new products from each brand.
Obviously Electrodyne caught up quickly by adding active reciprocal eq with their new 711 2-band and 712 9-band graphic channel strips and for several years it was always in question who could offer the best console for each studios needs.
Eventually Don McLaughlin and John hall sold Electrodyne to what would be a series of large corporations who wanted Electrodyne (and Langevin, purchased by Electrodyne about 1969) IP for their broadcast audio products, while QEE grabbed even more market share with bigger and more feature packed consoles many featuring the signature 3-band inductor eq and discrete transistor preamps that have appeared on countless hits from 1970 to today.
Don & John having parted ways with Electrodyne almost immediately started Sphere Electronics (with early internal designs remarkably similar to John Hall's genius at Electrodyne) where even more remarkable consoles came on the market.
As the Electrodyne/Langevin product line was turned towards the new and highly profitable TV/Radio Broadcast market and Sphere was getting off to a running start in the Music and fixed-install business, Quad-Eight began to command a huge part of the Music industry, despite heavy competition from API, Harrison, MCI, Sphere of course, and notable others, with QEE almost completely dominating the Film console industry for decades (acquiring Westrex along the way,... but that is another story entirely).
As always, if anyone can come up with solidly backed facts to refute (or support and expand on) the above, my ears are open.
Thank you,
Ken Hirsch / Director of Engineering
Orphan Audio
www.orphanaudio.com
Quad-Eight Electronics
www.quadeightelectronics.com
Electrodyne Audio
www.electrodyneaudio.com (a division of Orphan Audio)
