SUCKS.
Say aye.
Say aye.
Quick Vent: Lead-free Solder
- Thread starter MountCyanide
- Start date
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Indeed...
Lead free solder is a classic case of the government fixing a problem that really wasn't a problem, leading to other unintended consequences. Sound familiar?
JR
JR
JohnRoberts said:
I dunno, if you watch the TV program "halt and catch fire" (about 1980's PC/technology development in texas) the main hero has brain damage, and his doctor tells him it's likely to lead exposure....
because TV is the truth, right?
Don't eat the yellow paint...Rochey said:
JR
PS: still waiting for them to outlaw car batteries.
10 years ago, we had this big deal at work where they had to move all the products we made to RoHs.
They calculated how much lead we shipped in our IC's per year. (think: Billions of IC's).
The Result....
12 car batteries worth per year.
Thousands of engineering hours.
$$$$ on quality re-evaluation
$$$$ on marketing the changes etc,
12 car batteries.
They calculated how much lead we shipped in our IC's per year. (think: Billions of IC's).
The Result....
12 car batteries worth per year.
Thousands of engineering hours.
$$$$ on quality re-evaluation
$$$$ on marketing the changes etc,
12 car batteries.
They removed lead from gasoline late last century,,,
Leaded gasoline was an issue, lead in solder, not so much.
JR
Leaded gasoline was an issue, lead in solder, not so much.
JR
Andy Peters
Well-known member
MountCyanide said:
For what it's worth, we've been entirely lead free at the day job for at least the ten years I've been here, and lead-free soldering simply isn't an issue. Period. And this is with assembly techs building boards with pretty big BGA packages (yes, we hand-attach BGAs) and a shit-ton of passives.
We have had more problem with ceramic capacitors breaking than we have had with soldering issues directly traced to lead-free solder.
It comes down to having the proper tools and process to do the job.
Think about aaaaaaaaaaaaaall of the throw away tech.
Think about all of the electronics which, when broken, are replaced and not repaired.
The impact of these decisions are magnitudes greater than any trace amounts of lead in brass or even 63/37.
Batteries are exempt, how much cad by weight is in a single NiCd? :
Do any armed forces comply with RoHS?
Turn the temp up to 11 and hope any boards and components can handle it. Be generous with the flux.
Oh and I had been putting lead additive in my 62 Chevy II until only a few years ago when I finally got rid of it.
Think about all of the electronics which, when broken, are replaced and not repaired.
The impact of these decisions are magnitudes greater than any trace amounts of lead in brass or even 63/37.
Batteries are exempt, how much cad by weight is in a single NiCd? :
Do any armed forces comply with RoHS?
Turn the temp up to 11 and hope any boards and components can handle it. Be generous with the flux.
Oh and I had been putting lead additive in my 62 Chevy II until only a few years ago when I finally got rid of it.
Electronics seems like an environmentally ugly affair.
And, I'm involved in it..
I'm thankful that someone tries to get us in a more environmental-friendly direction.
But of course, not every law is well laid out.
btw: I use lead-solder as I'm not doing so much, and are not so confident with my soldering.
When I see e.g. old pc's dumped in 3rd world it makes me feel so bad.
And, I'm involved in it..
I'm thankful that someone tries to get us in a more environmental-friendly direction.
But of course, not every law is well laid out.
btw: I use lead-solder as I'm not doing so much, and are not so confident with my soldering.
When I see e.g. old pc's dumped in 3rd world it makes me feel so bad.
thermionic
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2004
- Messages
- 1,671
Has no one here tried silver-content (I use SAC305) solder? The silver brings the melting point down and I find it flows almost as well as 63/37. Not all Ag-content solders flow equally well, though. I regularly re-work with it without issue.
As for the non Ag type...That stuff represents an environmental tragedy. It takes eons to re-work and pcb damage is difficult to avoid. I suspect the larger OEMs love the fact that it makes consumer items so disposable. Sad.
edit - I'm sure you all have used Ag solder - my point is that no one's mentioned it so far, and it's not that bad. It's pricey, which makes consumer items unlikely to use it.
As for the non Ag type...That stuff represents an environmental tragedy. It takes eons to re-work and pcb damage is difficult to avoid. I suspect the larger OEMs love the fact that it makes consumer items so disposable. Sad.
edit - I'm sure you all have used Ag solder - my point is that no one's mentioned it so far, and it's not that bad. It's pricey, which makes consumer items unlikely to use it.
If you want to see something ugly the primitive recycling operations in China were scary just to look at. The hazardous materials running in open trenches with barely any protection for human workers. probably better today but still not as strict as the west.
JR
JR
Yes, it's mainly to stop the bad effects of leaching into the water supply when it went for landfill.
Nowadays, certainly here in Europe, all electrical/electronic junk has to go to special recycling points.
I find the tin/silver type just about OK but it's much harder on my soldering iron bits.
best
DaveP
Nowadays, certainly here in Europe, all electrical/electronic junk has to go to special recycling points.
I find the tin/silver type just about OK but it's much harder on my soldering iron bits.
best
DaveP
Rochey said:
I have no idea about impact or the politics, but I can say for certain the same is not true in PCB manufacturing, and that the standard tin/lead HAL was incredibly nasty to work with and produced waste thats far nastier than silver plating.
Gustav
Repurposing in the Soviet Union was a gas also. My wife's town was built around a TV and vac tube factory. The road to the communal garages was paved with smashed TV tubes. Clouds of P, Pb, who knows what else blew in the air. They still talk about the summer when the crawdaddys in the factory lake were blue. Wierd stuff happened in that town.
Mike
PS: soldering with Pb AND Ag.
Mike
PS: soldering with Pb AND Ag.
Anyone in consumer electronics repair would have noticed faults not seen during the lead era when RoHS was introduced:
Solder failure due to mechanical shock of repetitive relay action.
Solder failure due to heating and cooling cycle of nearby regulator (regulator already repaired with Pb).
Solder failure due to mechanical stress.
We also see BGAs lifted due to mechanical stress transferred by a nearby PCB mounting screw (people put cameras in their back pocket), heating and cooling cycles etc. Lots of waste created but hey, lead free - so toss it in the landfill and feel pious.
Having said that it seems as though lead free solders are improving. Still, it's hard to beat the malleability of lead solder and since I'm not in the EU I use it for all repairs especially when I see cases like the above.
Solder failure due to mechanical shock of repetitive relay action.
Solder failure due to heating and cooling cycle of nearby regulator (regulator already repaired with Pb).
Solder failure due to mechanical stress.
We also see BGAs lifted due to mechanical stress transferred by a nearby PCB mounting screw (people put cameras in their back pocket), heating and cooling cycles etc. Lots of waste created but hey, lead free - so toss it in the landfill and feel pious.
Having said that it seems as though lead free solders are improving. Still, it's hard to beat the malleability of lead solder and since I'm not in the EU I use it for all repairs especially when I see cases like the above.
Scodiddly
Well-known member
I've been using lead-free at home for years now, and at work for a year or two. With decent solder (whatever Andy Peters recommended to me a while back) it's slightly more fussy than lead but really no big deal to work with.
