RCA BA-6A from scratch

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Hi letterbeacon,

No more to report yet,  I need a contact with a studio that would be prepared to test it with me, and I don't have one yet.  Also time is in short supply too.  I still have to make some nice looking lettering before I can expect a professional to touch it.  But other than that, it performs to the original spec as far as I can tell from all my measurements.  The only difference is that the top end goes to 20kHz instead of ~15kHz because modern Transformers have a better spec in that respect.

best
DaveP
 
Great, can't wait to hear some samples!

I'm thinking of attempting one of these as a P2P/ turret board so I'm paying close attention.  Did you draft a point to point layout at all or did you solder as you went through the schematic?
 
Wow lovely build!......I built my version of BA6A a few years back now , I bought the first made set of Sowters for the BA ....but had to wait a while as they were being made ( thanks to work on this forum by CJ & others) while I was waiting I built the thing without the interstage tran , got it working ok but when I finally got the last tran the interstage it all came good it was great....

Looking at this thread it reminds me of the fantastic journey I had making mine....I was very green & still am I found out the hard way that the schematic with dont build from this was wrong.....

Ive tried many mods and many parts over the last few years.....one thing I did after reading about carbon resistor mojo was to swap from my metal film to carbon comp....

I recorded a song verse with the metal films in & then very quickly replaced with the carbons & recorded the next verse with the carbons & I swear they sound sweeter.....maybe its in my head but I really preffered the carbons verse.....I since swapped out some of the capacitors fro paper oils too

I got hold of a manual a little while back & have got all my voltages spot on & the thing sounds like a dream....I only have humble DIY to compare to ...LA2as, 1176s LA4A but I love it

Im very interested to hear what other transformers may work with the BA circuit, tho Im glad I got the Sowters
 
Letterbeacon,

What I did was go through the schematic and count how many standalone connections were required.  Obviously a cathode resistor going from the valve base to the earth Busbar does not need one but a plate resistor to HT does.  I then fitted the required number of tag strips plus some spares.  I have found that making a practical copy of a symmetrical schematic works best.  Orient the valve bases so that things like coupling caps will be the same length.  I go by the old engineering maxim "if it looks right, it is right".  components should not be too close together, too fiddly to assemble, or too far apart, more prone to pick up stray signals or inductance.

I usually make a sketch of the proposed layout first, then I physically place them to see if it works in practice.  Its worth taking time over this as it can save a lot of grief later, we usually only get one shot at these amps so it has to be right first time.

Incidently, the 4.7k resistors on the 6SK7's are to provide a 4.7k output resistance to give sufficient bass to the interstage, it cuts the gain a lot but there is more than enough gain to spare.  I don't think the interstage is necessary myself, but it was common practice to use them at the time; 1950.

One other potential problem area is the feedback string, this must be kept as short as possible to avoid oscillation, its got several hundred volts of ac on it so you could easily induce it into a sensitive part of the circuit through stray inductance/capacitance.

Regarding carbon comp resistors Gary,  I would need some solid scientific evidence to use them.  I would be so preoccupied with the hiss they produced that I would never notice the "sweetness" myself.  Lots of components are better nowadays and i don't have any problem using them.

all the best
DaveP

 
Im not trying to get people to go over to carbon resistors just wanted to share my experience with them in this case... I also made 2 LA2as once each flavour, I cant here any extra hiss im sure its there somewhere ....theres plenty of science stuff about it on the web I found it very interesting.

If you get the chance to add interstage I would the Sowter is a lot of money sadly but  I couldnt live without it now

all the best  :)
 
DaveP said:
Letterbeacon,

What I did was go through the schematic and count how many standalone connections were required.  Obviously a cathode resistor going from the valve base to the earth Busbar does not need one but a plate resistor to HT does.  I then fitted the required number of tag strips plus some spares.  I have found that making a practical copy of a symmetrical schematic works best.  Orient the valve bases so that things like coupling caps will be the same length.  I go by the old engineering maxim "if it looks right, it is right".  components should not be too close together, too fiddly to assemble, or too far apart, more prone to pick up stray signals or inductance.

I usually make a sketch of the proposed layout first, then I physically place them to see if it works in practice.  Its worth taking time over this as it can save a lot of grief later, we usually only get one shot at these amps so it has to be right first time.

Incidently, the 4.7k resistors on the 6SK7's are to provide a 4.7k output resistance to give sufficient bass to the interstage, it cuts the gain a lot but there is more than enough gain to spare.  I don't think the interstage is necessary myself, but it was common practice to use them at the time; 1950.

One other potential problem area is the feedback string, this must be kept as short as possible to avoid oscillation, its got several hundred volts of ac on it so you could easily induce it into a sensitive part of the circuit through stray inductance/capacitance.

Dave, that's great advice - thanks very much!
 
Dave,

I'm using the same tube sockets as you are for another project, I used a hole saw to create the holes for them in the chassis, but they haven't come out as neat as yours.  What did you use to make the holes and can you remember the diameter of the holes?

Thanks!
 
Hi Letterbeacon,

I used a plastic template (drawing office type with loads of holes) to draw the circles on the panel, then I used a tapered cutter to get the holes up to ~25mm dia.  After that it was down to hard graft with a half round file I'm afraid, to bring the holes up to the line and make any final easing to get the sockets to fit.

I can't tell you what size holes they were because I just made them to fit the valve bases rather than a size.

best
DaveP
 
Ah I see.  Maybe I just need to do a bit more filing - my holes are a bit ragged round the edges.  What's a tapered cutter?

Have you had a chance to record any samples of this beast?

Also, does this look like the right kind of meter for the BA-6?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Vintage-Analog-Current-Panel-Meter-DC-100-mkA-/220880668980?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3796510211946270315#ht_500wt_1413

It's DC and I think 0-100uA.  The scale on the meter itself says uA but the seller describes it as mkA.  Is mkA the same as uA?  I can't find anything on Google.  Obviously if it is 0-100ua I'd add the shunt to bring it 0-500ua like the BA-6.
 
What an impressive project. The metalwork alone makes my hands hurt just looking at it. I'm super impressed by the balls to announce a project before it's done and just hack your way through especially with the professional results. I guess there's not substitute for grit and experience.
 
Letterbeacon,

The meter looks great, snap it up.  It says 100uA on the face, the seller did not use a u so he used mk for micro!

This is my rotary cone hole cutter, worth its weight in gold. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/conecuts-step-drills/0221585/

Make real sure of your shunt, they are delicate!!



Bkbirge,

There was a method in my madness, I knew I could do it either with or without the help of the guys on the forum, but I needed the push of knowing there were people waiting to see the results, its all too easy to stop when you hit a snag when you work alone, now that comes from experience!!

As for grit, that comes from staying married for 25 years.

best
DaveP
 
Though I still rely on a good set of metal files for fine shaping I can't imagine doing tube socket holes without these:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=greenlee+punch

Yes, they are pricey but worth even getting a single bit just for tube sockets.  On aluminum it's like opening a beer can. 
 
Hi Lassoharp,

yes the Brits are always the poor relations when it comes to stuff like this :-[

If I was doing mass production octals I would bite the bullet and buy a punch, but for B9A and B7G I can do it real quick with a cone cutter.

I'm trying to convince myself that the excercise does me good.

best
DaveP
 
Thanks Dave and lassoharp for your suggestions.

Dave - your meter was also 100ua, wasn't it?  So presumably I can use the same values that you did...

I'm gearing up to start my P2P BA-6 soonish.  I might start a new thread though to keep this one unpolluted!
 
Hi Dave,

I'm assuming you've had time to play with this beast now and, having used it in the field, are there any things you'd change?  Like for example your attenuators that differ from the original schematic.  Do you find you have enough control with 6dB steps?

Thanks.
 
Hi letterbeacon,

Thanks for your continued interest!

letterbeacon said:
I'm assuming you've had time to play with this beast now and, having used it in the field, are there any things you'd change?  Like for example your attenuators that differ from the original schematic.  Do you find you have enough control with 6dB steps?

Let's start with the easy stuff, the attenuators work fine, I use that design in all my gear.

I think the meter measuring points all over the circuit are a waste of time.  I think they were designed for busy radio stations working 24/7 where down-time had to be kept to a minimum.  They wanted very fast checks but for me, with modern caps and resistors, drift is minimal.
Because I've got so many switch combinations I have to revise before I use the thing!  That's what comes of being a cheapskate on wafer switches!

I have an LA-2A clone which is excellent for vocals, only 2 knobs, and an Altec 436B clone which I recently modified to RS124 spec which I use for bass, so the BA-6A has some competition!

The 50Hz insertion voltage to set-up the input tubes works very well and I will use it on my next amp.  If you buy 6SK7's then pay a little extra to get matched tubes.  The choke I used is on the limit and rather too much ripple comes through for my liking.  I have modified a MOSFET regulator for use on any new projects (GroupDIY varimu) so I won't be using any more chokes; this has the advantage of a slow start for the HT so I don't need a separate HT Mains switch either.

My time is spent between recording and electronics and since its got colder I have not been recording so much (studio too large to heat!  I have a corner of a 7500 sqft empty factory!  Nice natural reverb though and its free!

best
DaveP
 
Alan,
No this was from the actual EMI schematic posted by New York Dave in the summer.
My old 3 stage worked alright but I converted it to the ARE eS one two four spec and it works a treat.  PM me if you want a copy.
best
DaveP
 
DaveP said:
Hi letterbeacon,

Thanks for your continued interest!
Not at all!  It's fascinating to me, especially as I'm slowly getting the parts together to build one myself.


I think the meter measuring points all over the circuit are a waste of time.  I think they were designed for busy radio stations working 24/7 where down-time had to be kept to a minimum.  They wanted very fast checks but for me, with modern caps and resistors, drift is minimal.
Because I've got so many switch combinations I have to revise before I use the thing!  That's what comes of being a cheapskate on wafer switches!

Yes, based on what you've said earlier in the thread I was thinking of omitting the meter measurement points.  How does the following sound:  BAL/LIM = 3 pole 5 position switch and Meter switch = 2 pole 4 position (Off, GR, BAL, BAL FINE).

I'm having a hard time finding a 3 pole 5 position rotary for the BAL/ LIM though.  Do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions?  Actually, I could just use a 3 deck switch here couldn't I?

I have an LA-2A clone which is excellent for vocals, only 2 knobs, and an Altec 436B clone which I recently modified to RS124 spec which I use for bass, so the BA-6A has some competition!
Nice!  So what do you use the BA-6A on?  What does it excel on?

The 50Hz insertion voltage to set-up the input tubes works very well and I will use it on my next amp.  If you buy 6SK7's then pay a little extra to get matched tubes.  The choke I used is on the limit and rather too much ripple comes through for my liking.  I have modified a MOSFET regulator for use on any new projects (GroupDIY varimu) so I won't be using any more chokes; this has the advantage of a slow start for the HT so I don't need a separate HT Mains switch either.
I've already bought a matched pair of 6SK7s so that's good to know it's money well spent!

Thanks for your time!

 
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