Republican Propaganda

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dmp

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Joined
Oct 28, 2009
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Madison, WI
So Republican media figures are saying children taken from their parents after crossing the border are 'crisis actors', playing into fringe conspiracy propaganda. (there are conspiracy theories that mass shootings are staged, filled with crisis actors). Over the past decade these propaganda attacks have been extremely effective at mobilizing political anger.
And the majority of Republican's in the USA currently support the Trump administration's policy to separate young children from their parents and detain them in cages or tents. As a parent this is awful to me but I have trouble believing even the 50+% Republicans who support this in polls would actually be able to support it without the weaponized Republican propaganda spinning it through their media channels.
 
dmp said:
So Republican media figures
who are you listening to?
are saying children taken from their parents after crossing the border are 'crisis actors', playing into fringe conspiracy propaganda. (there are conspiracy theories that mass shootings are staged, filled with crisis actors). Over the past decade these propaganda attacks have been extremely effective at mobilizing political anger.
enough straw in that straw man to fill a scare crow.
And the majority of Republican's in the USA currently support the Trump administration's policy to separate young children from their parents and detain them in cages or tents.
I expect the majority (of republicans) favor a secure border  that would make this entire discussion moot.

I won't bore you with the dueling talking points surrounding this one screed. I suspect you've already heard them by paying attention to who/what you appear to.
As a parent this is awful to me but I have trouble believing even the 50+% Republicans who support this in polls would actually be able to support it without the weaponized Republican propaganda spinning it through their media channels.
This is just more political posturing for the midterm elections to demonize each other by painting republicans as not just stupid, but heartless and evil. I hope you don't believe that of me. (Ignore the man behind the curtain).

I miss the good old days when we didn't get bombarded by this mud slinging except for presidential elections once every 4 years... Now it seems this political noise is all year long, every year, 24x7.

JR 

PS: I believe we see this hyperbolic partisan political activity because people are clearly making money from it. Late night entertainers gain viewership by being nastier than the next guy to POTUS. News and opinion shows likewise get ratings from being inflammatory and controversial (sometimes ridiculously so). We (viewers) are fueling this mess  by supporting the sundry bad actors (pun intended). 
 
JohnRoberts said:
This is just more political posturing for the midterm elections to demonize each other by painting republicans as not just stupid, but heartless and evil. I hope you don't believe that of me. (Ignore the man behind the curtain).

I absolutely do not believe that of you John but I wonder and worry that perhaps the ground is shifting beneath your feet.  The core values you represent here  seem out of step with the Republican party right now.


I miss the good old days when we didn't get bombarded by this mud slinging except for presidential elections once every 4 years... Now it seems this political noise is all year long, every year, 24x7.

Trump thrives on the noise, and fans the flames daily and deliberately.  I don't think anyone could dispute that.

As a parent though I see what's happening to these kids as a tragedy.
 
Watch Ann Coulter, true republican. nsfw obviously.

https://twitter.com/bourgeoisalien/status/1008785880658644998
 

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JohnRoberts said:
who are you listening to?

Do you live in a vacuum, John?  I have not been a regular consumer of right wing media for some time, but I'm well aware of some of the nonsense that gets slung around as truth, and it's sad that so many people buy into it.  Whether you're talking pizzagate, swiftboat, WMD in Iraq, black helicopters, birtherism--and those are the low-hanging fruit. 
It would take weeks to detail the lies repeated as truth by the right wing. 

If you really fancy yourself such a smart and reasonable guy, you need to wake up to the world around you.  Seriously.  Maybe you should read those "liberal" writers and media outlets that you dismiss so flippantly.  And maybe you should pay more attention to the folks who currently share the mantle of conservatism with you, and see if that's who you really want to be associated with. 

 
scott2000 said:
Looks like The way to stop Trump's policy of actively enforcing the current  law/// i.e. including separating children...... is to change the law???
It's not the law--it's how it's being enforced by Trump. The law hasn't changed--this was a choice by Trump and his people to inflict maximum pain--and according to at least one story out of the White House, the reason for doing it was to try to gain leverage to get their immigration package passed and funding for the wall. 

Think about that:  separating little kids from their parents in order to gain political leverage.  Sick. 
 
There is a LOT of noise about this issue right now and not a lot of unbiased truth as far as I can tell...

My take on it:

There might be laws regarding separating adults and children at the border based on entering the country illegally, and those laws (whatever they might be) were probably enacted before Trump, so he does not get the whole blame...HOWEVER...

Enforcement policy has always been a Presidential stick used to beat out political brownie points or brown shirts depending on your perspective...and in this case Trump is INTENTIONALLY using this enforcement policy to drum up proof for the midterms that he is tough on immigration which is THE republican bases PRIMARY rally point...

He could definitely stop the separation by making a phone call but this would be seen as a weakness by his current group of advisors...

Trump is a terrible negotiator, he does not know how to bring all parties to the table except by threats and this is a chip he is using against the Democrats so he can get his wall built, it has nothing really to do with law or immigration actually...it is mostly about his own self image and remaining tough AND deflecting the news cycle away form his failing attacks on the Mueller investigation, which is getting into some very dangerous waters for him.

I mean think about this...Friday his former campaign manager was incarcerated for witness tampering on a federal indictment AGAINST the Trump time/campaign...and not one news agency is talking about it...

In a normal news cycle this would be major news for more than 24 hours...but there is no longer a normal news cycle.
 
iomegaman said:
I mean think about this...Friday his former campaign manager was incarcerated for witness tampering on a federal indictment AGAINST the Trump time/campaign...and not one news agency is talking about it...
Actually this is incorrect. Manafort was indicted for lobbying within the US on behalf of a foreign entity without registering as a foreign agent, for money laundering and then lying about it which has almost nothing to do with the Trump campaign. I say "almost" because what he actually did (the charges are just what the government can most easily prove as illegal in the US) was he helped Russia install a puppet government in Ukraine. And that is interesting because that is precisely what Mueller is investigating wrt the Trump campaign. Meaning maybe Manafort was helping Russia install a puppet government in the US. And just to get rich. He doesn't even appear to have any political agenda.
 
squarewave said:
Actually this is incorrect. Manafort was indicted for lobbying within the US on behalf of a foreign entity without registering as a foreign agent, for money laundering and then lying about it which has almost nothing to do with the Trump campaign. I say "almost" because what he actually did (the charges are just what the government can most easily prove as illegal in the US) was he helped Russia install a puppet government in Ukraine. And that is interesting because that is precisely what Mueller is investigating wrt the Trump campaign. Meaning maybe Manafort was helping Russia install a puppet government in the US. And just to get rich. He doesn't even appear to have any political agenda.

Ummm...sorry, no, go read up on WHY Manafort is in jail, it is because he violated the terms of his bail, he was taken straight to jail for contacting witnesses and trying to influence them using an encryption app so the story went his way in court, Mueller was able to get the info of who he was talking to and asked the judge to revoke his bail and filed new charges against him, THAT is why he was incarcerated, his trial is later this year and yes includes the crimes you are suggesting but there are nearly 27 "super-ceding" charges against him now, including money laundering, income tax evasion, failure to register as a foreign lobby, etc...but the main reason he is sitting in jail right now is he violated the terms of his bail.
 
iomegaman said:
Ummm...sorry, no, go read up on WHY Manafort is in jail
That's not what I was correcting you about. You said "federal indictment AGAINST the Trump time/campaign". He was not indicted for anything wrt to Trump or his campaign.
 
Thread: How did we get here?


In 2015, I shook President Obama’s hand, thanked him for DACA, and asked him to reverse course & close the for-profit baby jails (also known as “family detention centers”) he opened in Dilley & Karnes City, Texas. What he said shook me to my core 1/

2/ Specifically, I told him, “It’s wrong. And it’s going to be a stain on your legacy.” He stopped moving on to the next person in the rope line and looked back at me. I’d gotten his attention. He turned back, looked at me and “Are you an immigration lawyer?” “Yes”

3/ Just days before, President Obama’s senior immigration policy advisor @cecmunoz had received a chilly welcome during her keynote address to the @AILANational annual conference attendees in National Harbor. She was greeted with silent protest & signs saying #EndFamilyDetention

4/ I later learned that her meeting with senior AILA attorneys had been testy to say the least. See, Obama had previously timed great news, like #DACA to coincide with the AILA annual conferences. We all watched ecstatic in Nashville in 2012 as he announced it on giant screens.

5/ So the President’s immediate association of “End Family Detention” with immigration lawyers wasn’t random. He’d been told and believed we were basically the only ones who’d care, and even then, it would be a minority of us that wouldn’t extract from him a political cost.

6/ So when I said “Yes”, the President looked back and engaged: “I’ll tell you what we can’t have. It’s these parents sending their kids here on a dangerous journey and putting their lives at risk.”

7/ And he walked on down the rope line. Not, “I know. I’m working on it.” not, “Thanks for your support”. Just, “Yes. This is the right move given what I perceive the facts to be.” I was dumbfounded. Let’s unpack the logic of what he said because it’s that logic which led us here

8/ First, the President tacitly admittedly that he was using detention of mothers and children as a deterrent. Days later, a federal court would find that policy likely violates the due process clause. https://www.aclu.org/cases/rilr-v-johnson …. And rightly so, as @ACLU powerfully demonstrated.

9/ Detention as Deterrence of future migration works only if it’s unpleasant, and only if you can ensure that people don’t get out. You don’t just detain to deter. You detain to deport. You have to do it by sending a Gandalf message down the pipeline to the Northern Triangle.

10/ What’s wrong with that? First, it doesn’t work. It assumes a parent would rationally chose to watch her daughter raped or murdered in Guatemala, El Salvador, or Honduras instead of helping her flee to seek the domestic and international legal protections of US law. Would you?

11/ People in the Northern Triangle were (and are) fleeing for their lives. They’re looking to what we’ve held out as a shining city on a hill and following the beacon to safety. To convince them not to flee, you must convince them a worse fate awaits at the end of the journey.

12/ Today’s DHS Kidnapping policy is the logical extension of yesterday’s family detention decisions. It’s the same mouthful of detention-as-deterrence mouthwash, just swished to the other side. Nothing, NOTHING in our law requires us to abuse and traumatize families and children

13/ The reason otherwise friendly partisans on the left went to the mat with the Obama Admin is because we saw the utter inhumanity that happens inside these internment camps. Women aren’t allowed to let their children farther than 3 feet away from them. Imagine your toddler.

14/ I remember holding back tears when I saw cutouts from Eric Carle’s The Very Hungry Caterpillar on the walls in the “kids’ area” of the legal trailer and thinking about how this would mean those kids will always associate the same book I was reading my child with this jail.

15/ I remember hearing the constant, violent coughing and sickness of small children, and the worry of their mothers who stood in the sun outside the clinic all day only to be told their kids should “drink water.” I remember nearly doubling over when I saw the line of strollers.

16/ if being in these cages ate away at our humanity, getting to know the people locked inside them helped restore it. They women We represented had been raped, beaten,  or stalked in some of the most violent places on the planet. They carried on for their kids. They had hope.

17/ And the detention policies of the last administration were set up to deter that hope. All the while yielding a hefty corporate profit. It was and is a moral failing that these places still existed when President Obama left office. It wasn’t for want of trying to close them.

18/ I remember sitting down with my Member of Congress soon after I got back from the baby jail and trying to impress upon him the fierce urgency of taking immediate action to close these places down. I believed if people just knew, it would end. We as a nation would end it.

18/ I’ll never forget what he told me, back in August of 2015. “Do you realize that Donald Trump — DONALD TRUMP!!! — is currently polling at nearly 40% in Tennessee? His point was that politically, I was probably wrong: People might not end up caring, even if they learned.

19/ what I hope for us in this moment of critical mass, in this tipping point, is that we will collectively have the courage to hold our leaders accountable when they tell us putting families in for-profit cages to deter asylum-seeking is necessary to stop family separation.

20/ To do that, we need smart, effective experts helping our leaders formulate the policy solutions. To me, that means helping @ThinkLawLab and @CGRShastings deploy their wealth of knowledge. It means helping @Grassroots_News and @ConMijente and @PuenteAZ and @PuebloSF organize.

21/ It means making sure @RAICESTEXAS and @AlOtroLado_Org and @NWIRP and @MigrantFreedom and @DetentionWatch have the resources they need to represent, visit, and document the abuses committed against human beings in cages. And it means showing up when we’re called to be present/

https://twitter.com/ImmCivilRights/status/1008902662828511232
 
Just to be crystal clear: there is NO LAW requiring separation of children from their parents at the border, no matter why the parents crossed the border.
 
So Republican media figures are saying children taken from their parents after crossing the border are 'crisis actors', playing into fringe conspiracy propaganda.

This might have something to do with  photos being passed around that are taken out of context to create outrage.
One example is if you google 'crying child cage' you'll get a viral photo with all manner of politically charged words around them. However if you go to snopes.com and reference the photo, you'll find it is from a demonstration on capitol hill where the kid was in a cage as a form of 'protest performance art'.

Also, embarrassingly, Jon Favreau posted photos of detention center children claiming it was a result of Trump policy, but that backfired when with a little digging people found them to be from 2014, when Obama was in office.
 
The detained kids are still crying for their moms right now, whether there are pictures of them on google or not.

You don't have to defend this policy of trump's just because you're a republican. You're not an automaton, I'll suggest.
 
I want to state my opinion on this, this kind of policy is unworthy of a civilized people, this kind of things always start with a little bit of inhumanity, but can get out of hand fast and uncontrollable and everyone will be very sorry afterwards.

My own grandfather, whom I only met as a little child, was a high ranking military judge in nazi-germany, he sentenced plenty people to death, because they got drunk in uniform, made political jokes or tried to hide from frontline apocalypse and all of it was within the laws of the time, then accepted behaviour (needless to say he never got any kind of reproach for that).
But it was also crime against humanity , because there are higher laws, unwritten but very clear, think about that.

I also had in my late teens the pleasure of personally befriending with a very old jewish lady, who had managed to escape the nazi death camps (literally clawing out from under a pile of corpses and nakedly running into the polish woods).
After decades of silence towards the end of her life, she felt the urge to talk to someone. She more than once repeated the famous words "Wehret den Anfängen!" (resist the beginnings). Think about that too.

It´s not just Trump, the Republicans or even the whole U.S.-politicians.
They can only do what is factually accepted by the people (unless they have established a network of torture camps and political police).

All that sounds way overdramatic to you? I hope you´re right....
 
My point is, it is simply wrong to systematically do such a traumatizing thing (I´m not talking about snowflake trauma, but the real deal) to children, and if there is a law promoting it (I can´t imagine that, though), that law is also very wrong and needs to get changed quickly.

Do you want your child/children taken away from you and put in a run down animal shelter, just because you did something deemed wrong by people who cannot even begin to imagine your reasons for doing so? It´s a simple question, and a simple principle, treat others like you want to be treated, especially if you´re well-off and they are desperate, it a needs a minimum of empathy though...

I´m very involved with all this stuff, so sorry for preaching and I hope I´m not making a fuss or appear to attack anyone here personally, also I´m not neglecting the problems that can arise with mass immigration (although President Trump OPENLY LIED recently talking about the situation in germany. I must say I have no respect for him whatsoever, although I tried very hard to see something good in him).

Treating people like animals makes you into an animal.
Let´s act decent against all odds and still have some fun!
/Over and out.
 
I grew up in brownsville tx, one of many border town in the u.s.  Our border is with mexico and the town across the river is Matamoros.  I have seen the issue first hand since i was a kid.  I would see people crossing the rio grande when the water was high and when the water was trickle. We would often catch people crossing through property my parents owned.  They knew which way was north to San Antonio and knew that being 5 miles in from the main highway running north and south they had a better chance of not getting caught.  That being said, the entire policy trump is enforcing can be traced back to bill clinton and policy he start in 1997. While on the surface it seems cruel  to separate kids from parents, that is not exactly what is going on.  As we all know it is illegal to come into the united states at a point of entry or otherwise without documentation.  When they do so they are arrested. Much like any adult u.s. citizen who gets arrested, if there is no one to take care of their child after the arrest, CPS steps in.  The children getting  separated are with CPS. Yes they are being held in detention centers but the photo of them in "cages" was taken in 2014.  More over they are getting well taken care of.  This is decades old policy,  Parents coming over seeking political asylum are not separated from their kids but they do have to prove political Asylum which has an 80% fraud rate. In other words 80% of people claiming political asylum do not past the muster, whatever that is. If they can't prove it, they are arrested and separated with the kids going to CPS as there is usually no one to claim them.
At this point I hear a lot of complaining but anyone doing so does not propose a solution or have an idea what to do, but they sure are so quick to blame the guy in charge. Where were these people when we had bush or Obama or even when clinton put it in place? Where were these people when Obama was doing the Alien transfer exit program,  Atep for short.
As far as I can see the only real solution at this time is not come here illegally.  If that did not happen, then kids would not be separated from their parents.  Speaking of parents what does it say about them when they are willingly dragging their kids across harsh conditions  risking their childrens life and health.

Seems to me you are just promoting democratic party propaganda in the original post. 
 
I am pleased to see than many of you have a fair grasp on this.

#1 The title of this thread is inflammatory, aka "poisoning the well" to bias perception of what follows.

#2 both political parties are less than forthcoming, not to mention the elephant in the room, the law breakers making illegal crossings, and those helping them (like coyotes, drug traffickers, and even the country of Mexico).

#3 the law involved could be changed by congress quickly if they wanted to, but both parties think they can use this emotional story to throw shade on the other party to influence the Nov vote.

#4 media coverage has already demonstrated that they are not trustworthy (using old photos, etc). Everybody understands the emotional power of images, but fake (old) images just damage any trust in media to be honest truth tellers.

#5  This reminds me of the abortion fight. The emotional appeal focuses on killing unborn children while the real problem is unwanted pregnancy. This "family break up" theme is engineered to make a similar emotional appeal to the abortion argument's dead babies.  No right thinking person is in favor of breaking up families or killing babies, but don't forget this just a political manipulation (ignore the man behind the curtain).

#6 there is a vital difference between being called ignorant and evil. If the opposition is only ignorant you can keep talking to them to hopefully educate them. If the opposition are evil, talking is pointless, and playing dirty (whatever it takes) is OK.

Politics IMO is just a family squabble. Neither side is evil, but the political elites are living down to their bad reputation (swamp dwellers).

My work here is almost done (hate the game not the players).  8)

JR 
 
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