Seeking business advice (US)

[gyraf]

Hi Group,

Asking here because business ways seems unclear and foggy to an economic-structure amateur like me.

Short story is that we - in Gyraf Audio - would like to sell some of our units in the US.

As is, we are not entirely absent from the market - both VintageKing and SonicCircus carry our products in their web shops, and will order units from us if a customer demands and buys one.

But this does not really sell our products - stuff like this MUST be tried out first-hand, preferably in your own studio, to get you addicted..

We have sent 5 units total to the USA in the past full two years - at least four of which for customers who had their hands-on-experience with the units in already-Gyraf-equipped studios. For comparison, in Germany, where we have a retailer with hands-on demo possibilities, we sell approximately 30 units per year.

Could be it's a culture difference, but I think the possibility of actually trying units before buying is a major factor in this difference.

So the questions are:

- Who could/should we try to persuade to actually sell our gear.

- What kind of deal would be expected (or can be done) on units for demonstration purposes - and how to ensure they're not just sold off instantly with a better profit margin (tried that on a couple of occasions).

- Should we expect to be up against some sort of US monopolization - i.e. dealers can't sell something else if they decide to sell ours? Some roundabout answers we've gotten points in this direction, but the concept doesn't make sense to me at all.

- Where would you go to try out a $3k compressor or Eq?

These are the questions for now - I'm sure I'll come up with some more later

Feel free to PM or email me at [email protected]

Jakob E.

ps: Bonus question: Why is it wrong to ask a question like this, in a place like this? I can't possibly be the only one that wants to understand this, yet somehow this sort of questions are very rarely posed publicly. Yes, I Googled before asking.

 

[Mbira]

Answering your first question-I think if I were you I'd start really looking at these forums to see maybe what 3-5 people are really active on social networks and also very active in their studio.  Basically, you are looking for someone to use your product and get the word out to as many people as possible about how great it is.  It's not easy and is time consuming, but I think that is the general strategy...

....or you produce thousands of units for various guitar centers? 

....have you reached out to small US based boutique builders here to see what worked for them?

Have you had a review done on Tape Op? (sorry if you have and I missed it)...

 

[PRR]

> Where would you go to try out a $3k compressor or Eq?

Memphis or LA.

> monopolization ... the concept doesn't make sense to me at all.

Makes sense if *you* are so strong that you can ban all other products from your dealers. Then they *have* to sell your stuff.

It has been decades since I was near retail. I do not know what back-room deals are done now.

But historically, a Ford car dealer could *only* sell Fords. Not Hudson or Willys also. Chevrolet dealers were in the same bind. But smaller makers usually had to take the dealers they could get, and share showroom space and sales effort.

FWIW, this system broke down. There was no initial objection to a Ford dealer getting a Mercury dealership also, as long as they were separate. GM had so many brands they almost had to let the same location sell more than one. But then some dealers got so powerful they demanded to sell both Ford and GM in separate lots. I think Reedman had all his many "separate brands and makers" on side-by-side lots on the major road. Eventually these exclusive dealerships were judged in court to be monopolistic restraint of trade, GM could not shun a guy for selling Subaru, though separate buildings are still the norm.

But it is a hassle, even at Reedman, to go from one lot to the next to try-out a Ford, a Chevy, a Buick, a Saab, a Benz... and remembering the good and bad points and price of each. Especially in pro audio, where you really want instant A/B comparison. And also a studio buyer who has $3K to spend is probably booked-up and mighty busy to be running around town listening to different products. I think you *want* to be in the same dealership with your peers, because that's where busy buyers will do a one-stop shopping trip.

But low-volume high-price cars were always different. One Rolls-Royce would pay the bills for a month, but you might not sell one every month. Dealers would typically have a few other high-end or rare brands. If they couldn't be flexible and sell a Daimler or an Alfa in off-months, they'd go out of business and R-R would sell _no_ cars in that town. Not that R-R was compared against Daimler.... but someone buying his 3rd or 4th car to fill-up his stable might be open to something different.

You are not GM (Beringer). You are not competing against GM. Is their anybody in your "class" so powerful they could demand a dealer refuse to carry Gyraf? I do not know the big players in this game.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

hey Jakob,

I have quite a bit of experience in this area with several manufacturers, will email you when I get a minute to write a proper mail.

Cheers,
Ruairi

 

[gyraf]

Very useable insights here.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

If possible, I'll let you know how I proceed..

Jakob E.

 

[My3gger]

ps: Bonus question: Why is it wrong to ask a question like this, in a place like this? I can't possibly be the only one that wants to understand this, yet somehow this sort of questions are very rarely posed publicly. Yes, I Googled before asking.

I thought about this question too. Maybe people think questions about selling self made gear aren't appropriate for forum where advices/replies are for free. Another answer might be thought that diy shouldn't be sold. Don't know why, i guess not many can afford a hobby like this, without doing some payed work.

 

[jensenmann]

The console manufacturer I bought my desk from had made deals with a few studios distributed across the country. They got their desk cheaper or on loan if they provide the service for him to let upcoming customers testdrive the desk over there. Maybe this is an option for you to offer a special deal like this to a bunch of interested US customers.

 

[ruffrecords]

The console manufacturer I bought my desk from had made deals with a few studios distributed across the country. They got their desk cheaper or on loan if they provide the service for him to let upcoming customers testdrive the desk over there. Maybe this is an option for you to offer a special deal like this to a bunch of interested US customers.

I think this is an excellent idea but you need to choose your partners with great care. I entered into a similar arrangement with a guy in the USA who promised to promote my twin mic pre if I provided him with one to demonstrate. I did this and he reported back about various people trying it out and how much they liked. Then I have a couple of guys contact me and ask for a demo. I asked my guy to ship it to them so they could try it out then ship it on to the next guy. At this point my demo unit was mysteriously 'stolen' by someone my guy had lent it to. Never heard from him again.

Cheers

ian

 

[ComodoComplex]

FWIW, I am starting an audio business in Brooklyn, NY, and also trying to navigate the many challenges this market presents. Jakob, you are actually one of my heros! I built the G7 microphone back when I was in my first year of college... around 2013.

I'm really trying to make it work, and repair/service of vintage amps is currently my primary source of income. However, I'm also beginning to sell some cool hand-made tube equipment--you can see some here: tubularaudiobk.com. Besides worrying about insurance and other costs of doing business, I'm just trying to get a sense of how possible it is to even "make it" in this field. Any advice, horror stories, or words of encouragement?

Thanks in advance 

 

[gyraf]

Hi Ben,

Welcome!

I won't pretend to know a lot about this business (or any at all) - but there are some points that gets clearer over the years.

General business advice will be very geographically/culturally specific, I think. Took me a while to get to realize that e.g. european and US markets are very different indeed - not that I can describe the exact spots.

My own main observation: Perseverance is very important. Many small companies pop up and disappear just as fast again, which makes (some) customers wary. There's something important in the fact that you have been around for a certain amount of time, it kinda implicitly demonstrates the value of your service/product. Which is also a warning against changing too much/fast once you're in.  (yes, I'm aware that this could be a reverse causality that I mis-perceived, but I think not).

When it comes to business advice, I have had surprisingly good experiences simply going up to people on trade shows and asking them in person. Face to face, people are tremendously helpful if you just ask in a straightforward way. This is my absolute favorite thing about trade shows like AES/NAMM/MusikMesse etc.

And last, lets not forget - the good people of this forum. There is so much knowledge assembled here, so many people willing to share their experience, possibly going out of their way just to help you.

Like it happened for me when asking in this thread: I was genuinely lost about how to approach the US market, asked this here. Was strongly advised to go VinterNamm to check things out. Then being set up in a shared booth with a friend of a friend from here - finding out that this friend was a genuine goldmine of information, market knowledge, sales talent, and industry contacts. Over the three days of the NAMM show, every one of my potential customers turned out to be also interested in his range of products - and a good portion of his visitors showed interest in the Gyraf'fes. We talked jokingly about possible cooperation at some point the second day, almost synchronously realizing that not only would it be logically inevitable, but also that we had been set up in an arranged marriage..!  ;D

And last - a book on company "exteriors" that I'd wish I had read 25 years ago: Seth Godin: "This Is Marketing"

/Jakob E.

 

[okgb]

Good luck & skill !  maybe you will become too busy ?

Many people have spring boarded businesses off of your info, so Why not More awareness &  exposure
[ and success ] for the mighty Gyraf Brand ! I'm not sure even here that people know ALL of your product line or the
new and innovative things you've come up with!

Isn't part of the game buying big ads for good reviews?

 

[Gold]

I heard Frank Oglethorpe was handling distribution in the US. I had very positive experiences with him when he was handling Prism.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

And last - a book on company "exteriors" that I'd wish I had read 25 years ago: Seth Godin: "This Is Marketing"

Everyone should be listening to and reading Seth Godin.

His Podcast is essential for anyone who is trying to do anything - https://www.akimbo.me/#all-the-ways-to-listen

Start at the beginning.

 

[fazer]

Everyone should be listening to and reading Seth Godin.

Interesting ideas.  you just need 10 people to spread the word of  your ideas/products/services. 

Off topic podcast topic :  the refrigerator that knows whats in it,  has lots of possibilities to empower your life.  I thought it was spying on me and rejected the idea for privacy reasons, but Seth's idea is empowering.  I will listen some more to this podcaster. 

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Interesting ideas.  you just need 10 people to spread the word of  your ideas/products/services. 

Off topic podcast topic :  the refrigerator that knows whats in it,  has lots of possibilities to empower your life.  I thought it was spying on me and rejected the idea for privacy reasons, but Seth's idea is empowering.  I will listen some more to this podcaster.

Be sure to start at the beginning, the more recent episodes are building on concepts introduced earlier.

 

[boji]

Just cheerleading here, but I'd love to see you break into the US market. You've been kind and generous to this community since forever. The G9 lit my diy candle in 2007!

 

[gyraf]

I heard Frank Oglethorpe was handling distribution in the US. I had very positive experiences with him when he was handling Prism.

Yes indeed, Frank is definitely the right guy for the type of machinery I make for the public. I used to think that the US was a really really big country, until the 300'th time I got the "Oh, Frank - yes, I know him .." reply when trying to explain about my new US distribution 

..and yes, it was Ruari that set us up (I hope you know how thankful I am for you doing this!)

This aside, thread is resurrected because of the on-topic question from Ben (user ComodoComplex / turbular audio, brooklyn) about current state of businesses on the eastcoast

/Jakob E.

 

[bluebird]

Hey Jakob! What has worked for me is getting my gear in the hands of famous mixers and producers. If you can offer demos to those type of people they usually end up buying the gear and spreading the word. And when your dealing with well known engineers your pretty safe from having your gear "lost" like with what happened to Ian. That sucks by the way. Ian maybe take a little solace in the fact that someone somewhere is promoting your gear... AND it sounded so good someone went through the trouble to steal it in the first place! kind of weird compliment, but a compliment none the less

And I didn't see a testimonial page on the Gyraf website? If its on there and I missed it, make it easier to find. A couple comments from some fancy pants mixers/mastering guys really go a long way. And most importantly... use black circuit boards! ;D