Studio Monitors? HR824, ADAM A7, etc...

[khstudio]

I think it's about twice the $$$ & over my budget. :sad:

But I may go the extra mile if I can, I know a good monitoring system will be a good investment... as long as work keeps coming in.

Also, my control room isn't very big... not sure if that matters because I think the ADAM Subs are adjustable.

 

[Lowfreq]

[quote author="Svart"]I use Alesis Monitor ones(mk2) with the socks stuffed into the ports and paper towels over the tweeters. I use them with a sub(absolutely necessary).[/quote] I should try this with mine. Same speakers.............. All my mixes sound dull on other systems, and I can never get the bass right........ And yes my room is full of rockwool panels, before anyone asks..........:wink:

New Monitors are on the cards, but not for a while......................

 

[crisotop]

I heard a lot of people about the mackies with different stories and one of 'm is that the first 'batch' (made in USA) is a lot better then the later ones (made in china) because of better quality parts.

This is 100% true! we got 5x 824 in the surround studio of our Uni (made in the US) - one time a speaker got knocked over and I had to replace it with a chinese version. I was so shocked when I AB'd them - not necessarily in the low end, but the mids are so undefined far away compared to the US model. Let's say a nice "pingy" ride really sticks out with clear attack on the older US versoin, whereas on the chinese it sounds like its an mp3, all washy with unclear pronounciation...

regards,
christoph

 

[MartyMart]

Adam mentioned getting a "sub" for his system, what do people feel about this ?
Part of my system now is a pair of 1029's with the matching sub ( the older
nice black Genelecs ) and I'm totally used to them but was thinking about
getting A7's and away from the mono "sub" idea ... ??
I find them good to mix on and place the midrange - vocals - but not so nice
for general listening and tracking, for which I use some Mission M73's which
are FAB ! ( but a touch soft and HiFi )

MM.

 

[CJ]

Well, how can you mix the Snoop Double D without a sub?

Probably nice to have laying around, since everybody out there seems to have them in their cars and living rooms.

I wonder if the Sub thing will go away.
We had a big bass fad thing back in the late sixties, funny how things go in cycles, I rode here on mine.

 

[MartyMart]

I think the only reason for "subs" is to keep the speakers smaller, so the
little ones go on the wall and you hide the "sub" in a corner.
Not everyone wants a 5 foot system dominating their front room :wink:

I'm sure they are fine if good enough and the crossover is done well.

MM,

 

[jackies]

[quote author="CJ"]I stuffed a couple of Clean socks in the bass ports and it's like new speakers over here.
[/quote]
:thumb:
I always stuff stuff in them ports. It reduces the Q of the port resonance, resulting in more natural sound, even though less energy below 100 hz. I have Snell - large hifi speakers, they sounded rather boomy for my taste, then I stuffed ports and added a subwoofer, now a double bass sounds like a double bass...

 

[mhelin]

[quote author="Ilya"]Another vote for Adam here.
...
Admittedly they are expensive. But they're worth every penny. I know my mixes are way better now when we bought S3As.[/quote]

Too bad the similar tweeters used in Adams ("Air Motion Transformer", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Motion_Transformer ) cost a fortune. Would be nice to try to DIY with them. This driver looks awesome:
White paper:
http://www.beyma.de/fileadmin/seiten/download/pdf/Beyma_professional/TPL150.pdf
Specs:
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/TPL150.pdf

There is also a waveguide for it to improve sensitivity at midrange:
http://profesional.beyma.com/newsletterMarzo2008/TDTPL%20preliminary.pdf


Maybe not too difficult to diy the driver itself? Afaik, the ESS AMT driver diaphragm is available as spare (maybe the Beyma part as well).
ESS part can be found here (for $89):
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/12diaphragms.htm
Img:
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/graphics_products/ESS-Diaphragm-D-689-1108.jpg

 

[Gus]

I little off topic. I seem to remember a DIY air motion driver in an old issue(70's) of The Audio Amateur or a magazine like it. Does anyone remember this?

 

[mhelin]

[quote author="Gus"]I little off topic. I seem to remember a DIY air motion driver in an old issue(70's) of The Audio Amateur or a magazine like it. Does anyone remember this?[/quote]

No but it was propably Feb 1977 issue, author was Neil Davis (from patent
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6111970.pdf ).

Neil has written something about it here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10802
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=993114#post993114

Neils home page with DIY instructions:
http://home.comcast.net/~neilandbarbaradavis/projects.htm
http://home.comcast.net/~neilandbarbaradavis/DIYHeil/DIY1/index.htm

Neil uses also ESS diaphragm in current version.

 

[Svart]

I should try this with mine. Same speakers.............. All my mixes sound dull on other systems, and I can never get the bass right........ And yes my room is full of rockwool panels, before anyone asks..........Wink

The paper towel over the tweeter forces the monitors to sound dull (since they don't have tweeter adjustments and seem to be MUCH brighter than any regular speaker) and thus you have to mix in more high end to make them sound good. They get a little boomy and need the sock trick for sure but the low end also drops off really quickly and can cause you to mix in too much low end. Add a sub and dial in to taste.

They actually aren't bad monitors. once you learn their quirks you can make pretty good mixes on them.

 

[psemeraro]

I bought a pair of 1998 vintage Mackie 824s about 5 years ago.  I would describe their sound as "big" but cloudy.
I'm on version 4 of modding them.  The engineering is superb, the parts - crap.  The cabinet is completely dead but the waveguide rings like the Liberty Bell.  Each driver receives signal passed thru at least 6 4560 opamps, 6 garbage electrolytics and several volume pots made from beach sand.  Replaced the $.03 external volume control (with electro caps before and after!) with 8k Vishay and bridged caps, changed opamps to lm4562, PIO coupling cap for low amp, polyprop for hi amp replaced PS caps for hi amp (were tiny and lousy) bypassed all eq caps with polyprop, added additional filer caps for PS and snubb'd them, replaced tweeter with vifa DN26 (same response and sensitivity but much better CSD plot) coated back of tweeter waveguide with 1/4" hot glue (stopped it from ringing like a bell) wrapped dacron around woofer frame rails after I coated them with hot glue and then had my jaw reset.  TOTALLY different sound but still with perfectly flat measured response.  3D, holographic, resolved, detail and snap, all the lower mid mud disappeared and so much more.  They are superb and brutal at the same time.  Did an A/B comparo with Genelec 1031A's - not even remotely close.  Genelecs were dramatically closed in and dynamically compressed.  Some good percussion recordings with congas will quickly show whether or not the speakers are full of lower mid mud which is why I started the mods - to get rid of the mid mud.  No harshness at all but tons of air.  Listening to movies the ambient audio is unbelievable - street sounds, room tones, the boom guy walking around...
Not terribly expensive just time consuming

 

[playboss]

lytics, lol

 

[khstudio]

I bought a pair of 1998 vintage Mackie 824s about 5 years ago.  I would describe their sound as "big" but cloudy.
I'm on version 4 of modding them.  The engineering is superb, the parts - crap.  The cabinet is completely dead but the waveguide rings like the Liberty Bell.  Each driver receives signal passed thru at least 6 4560 opamps, 6 garbage electrolytics and several volume pots made from beach sand.  Replaced the $.03 external volume control (with electro caps before and after!) with 8k Vishay and bridged caps, changed opamps to lm4562, PIO coupling cap for low amp, polyprop for hi amp replaced PS caps for hi amp (were tiny and lousy) bypassed all eq caps with polyprop, added additional filer caps for PS and snubb'd them, replaced tweeter with vifa DN26 (same response and sensitivity but much better CSD plot) coated back of tweeter waveguide with 1/4" hot glue (stopped it from ringing like a bell) wrapped dacron around woofer frame rails after I coated them with hot glue and then had my jaw reset.  TOTALLY different sound but still with perfectly flat measured response.  3D, holographic, resolved, detail and snap, all the lower mid mud disappeared and so much more.  They are superb and brutal at the same time.  Did an A/B comparo with Genelec 1031A's - not even remotely close.  Genelecs were dramatically closed in and dynamically compressed.  Some good percussion recordings with congas will quickly show whether or not the speakers are full of lower mid mud which is why I started the mods - to get rid of the mid mud.  No harshness at all but tons of air.  Listening to movies the ambient audio is unbelievable - street sounds, room tones, the boom guy walking around...
Not terribly expensive just time consuming

Very cool man... thanks for sharing. ;D

I do like the speakers & after using them for years (along with NS10's) I'm pretty used to them & was wondering about upgrades.
I had a feeling there were some "Cheap" components in there, like caps, etc...

 

[Spencerleehorton]

I would really like to attempt this mod as my 824's are suffering from lack of mids!!
Ive used them for years and not really noticed!! as i got some yamaha MSP5 and Harmen Karden sound sticks MK2.
the sound really bothers me now, maybe my ears have grown up recently?
cant afford to change the tweeters but i have made a hit list of what i'm hopefully going to attempt to do:

1. replace volume pot - R184 = 10k
2. replace electrolytic caps before and after volume pot x 4 - C37 and C14 =  47uf/25v
3. change opamps to lm4562 (£25) x 12 - should i snip the legs then solder to the snipped legs rather than try and unsolder and wreak the pcb?
4. PIO coupling cap for low amp (paper in oil) x 2 - is this C89 = 47uf/25v? or C100  = 10uf/50v? or is it something else?
5. polyproperlene for hi amp replaced x 2 - C18 or C26 = 750pf are these the correct ones?
6. PS caps for hi amp (power supply?) - C86 and C17 = 470uf/25v, C84 and C16 =  10,000uf/50v ?

bypassed all eq caps with polypropylene

added additional filer caps for PS (power supply) and snubbed them?

I have the service manual schematic just need to verify each part number so i'm changing the correct thing, and it must be that i have the Chinese version rather than the USA version which it seems the USA versions use correct parts and don't suffer from this cloudy (lack) of mid range.

any help or info on this i would be very grateful thank you.

regards

Spence.