team politics talking points.

[cyrano]

I understand the word.

You don't. Clearly.

look it up

I did. The word doesn't exist.

Despite what Eric Swallwell thinks, that isn't how things work.

Quite frankly, that's not even part of an argument. I don't care much what Eric Swallwell thinks. It's immaterial. It's about what I think and what you think. Just throwing a name around is what kids do when they can't think of anything else. Like "Oh my god!"

It's also very much how things work. What good are guns when your so much disliked govt has tanks, jet fighters and drones? I'm not even taking nukes into consideration, supposing your much feared govt would like to spare some of you as slaves, guinea pigs, toys or whatever.

I mean, it's very good to be sceptic of your govt and to keep an eye on what they're doing. But the USA is quite the opposite example. There's simply no country that has more "secret" services. And more stuff that's kept under "official" secret's acts. Even the People's Republic could learn a bit from how the US public is kept from what it's govt is doing to other countries.

It kinds of baffles me how Americans can believe they live in the greatest country in the world and at the same time be oblivious to what their govt is doing in their name and how other countries solve problems in a different and sometimes better way.

But they think everything will be fine if they have guns...

 

[iturnknobs]

I don't need to reveal my location to you. Are you doubting the story?

Paranoid conspiracy theory much?

 

[iturnknobs]

Examples: Chicago, Baltimore, San Francisco, DC, New Orleans, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Albuquerque...

Swing...and a miss. Excellent debate, sir.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

You don't. Clearly.

Some of us aren't quitters.

I did. The word doesn't exist.

Try harder. Or was it futile to keep looking?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

Quite frankly, that's not even part of an argument. I don't care much what Eric Swallwell thinks. It's immaterial. It's about what I think and what you think. Just throwing a name around is what kids do when they can't think of anything else. Like "Oh my god!"

It's also very much how things work. What good are guns when your so much disliked govt has tanks, jet fighters and drones? I'm not even taking nukes into consideration, supposing your much feared govt would like to spare some of you as slaves, guinea pigs, toys or whatever.

I mean, it's very good to be sceptic of your govt and to keep an eye on what they're doing. But the USA is quite the opposite example. There's simply no country that has more "secret" services. And more stuff that's kept under "official" secret's acts. Even the People's Republic could learn a bit from how the US public is kept from what it's govt is doing to other countries.

It kinds of baffles me how Americans can believe they live in the greatest country in the world and at the same time be oblivious to what their govt is doing in their name and how other countries solve problems in a different and sometimes better way.

But they think everything will be fine if they have guns...

I can't help you figure it out. You should study more history.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Paranoid conspiracy theory much?

No. Just happy with my privacy.

 

[JohnRoberts]

You guys love to argue.

According to the internets it is a word, but meanings these days are pretty fluid.

Democide
Democide is a term coined by American political scientist Rudolph Rummel to describe "the intentional killing of an unarmed or disarmed person by government agents acting in their authoritative capacity and pursuant to government policy or high command." According to Rummel, this definition covers a wide range of deaths, including forced labor and concentration camp victims, killings by mercenaries and unofficial private groups, extrajudicial summary killings, and mass deaths due to governmental acts of criminal omission and neglect, such as in deliberate famines like the Holodomor, as well as killings by de facto governments, i.e

JR

 

[iturnknobs]

Thank you to Volker for pointing out, without words, what a serious issue we have in this country. This is what we are and how we appear to people on the outside, looking in.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Thank you to Volker for pointing out, without words, what a serious issue we have in this country. This is what we are and how we appear to people on the outside, looking in.

No laws being broken in those pics and those aren't the people murdering each other by the dozen every weekend in our cities. You may not like it, but it simply isn't illegal nor is it the cause of violence in this country.

 

[scott2000]

This is what we are and how we appear to people on the outside, looking in.

Sad how we appear to some people on the inside . Was visiting my relatives yesterday and friend of theirs was over, talking of how she was going through some difficulties because of losing her job among other things . She said she'll never find a job that pays more than she was making and most she could find were $13/hr gigs . Her reasoning for being discouraged was because of her skin color and she turns to me and asks, don't you think it's going to be impossible for me to find a good job? Bugs me that all that came out of my mouth was I don't know.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Isn't just wanting guns for the futile premise to defend yourself from your own elected government proof of insanity?

you calling me insane? History reveals that many totalitarian leaders were first elected democratically...

I mean, it should be quite clear even to the simplest of minds that owning an object that can only be used to kill could only end bad.

again more insults... Stop doing that.

JR

 

[scott2000]

But they think everything will be fine if they have guns...

Kinda sounds like a Putin warning

 

[cyrano]

Sorry. Goofed the search for "democide", somehow. I see what you mean, now. Thanks to both of you for setting me straight.

It's not an insult, John. It's a question. It's a genuine honest question to the base of the matter. Yes, there's a lot of democide in the world. But is that applicable to the USA?

I mean, as cynic as I might be about MY govt, there's no doubt in my mind they are NOT out to get me. Do you trust your own govt so little you really think they're out to get you?

That simply blows my mind. Sorry.

 

[scott2000]

Do you trust your own govt so little you really think they're out to get you?

The answer to that could be like choosing the chicken or the egg....lol

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Sorry. Goofed the search for "democide", somehow. I see what you mean, now. Thanks to both of you for setting me straight.

Certainly. History is critical to understanding potential common human failure modes.

It's not an insult, John. It's a question. It's a genuine honest question to the base of the matter. Yes, there's a lot of democide in the world. But is that applicable to the USA?

Some. As many have pointed out, we sought to disarm and displace the native population which suffered as a result. Estimates vary, but the majority of deaths among Natives in North America was likely due to accidental introduction of pathogens for which they had no immunity. Later losses can be attributed to democide.

You might also consider that the reason we have had less death by government is that an armed populace is a strong deterrent to tyranny. Mock it all you want, but it appears to work.

I mean, as cynic as I might be about MY govt, there's no doubt in my mind they are NOT out to get me. Do you trust your own govt so little you really think they're out to get you?

Tell it to the Germans. The Chinese. The North Koreans. It isn't so much that they're out to get as it is that concentrated power almost always ends badly for humanity. Sure, you may see the occasional benign dictator, but after he dies or is overthrown the people suffer. A strong deterrent against any overreach, nay, a constant vigilance against it, is the only sure way to prevent such outcomes.

That simply blows my mind. Sorry.

Educate yourself. Human history has far more examples of the corrupting influence of concentrated power than the contrary.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Sorry. Goofed the search for "democide", somehow. I see what you mean, now. Thanks to both of you for setting me straight.

I never heard it before this thread.

It's not an insult, John. It's a question. It's a genuine honest question to the base of the matter.

Thats like when people say "no offense... but". Do they even know what no offense means?

Yes, there's a lot of democide in the world. But is that applicable to the USA?

Unlikely IMO here and now, that said there are two competing world opinions, one that thinks we need more people, and one that thinks we already have too many. IDK which is correct, but both sides are sure they are.

I mean, as cynic as I might be about MY govt, there's no doubt in my mind they are NOT out to get me. Do you trust your own govt so little you really think they're out to get you?

The good news is that they (government) are grossly incompetent, the bad news is that they are power hungry and trying to control the private economy, including using government tools to sway future elections.

That simply blows my mind. Sorry.

Try to inspect all contrary opinions before summarily declaring them insane.

JR

 

[living sounds]

No laws being broken in those pics and those aren't the people murdering each other by the dozen every weekend in our cities. You may not like it, but it simply isn't illegal nor is it the cause of violence in this country.

Refering to written laws (whenever it suits ones point of view) as if these were like the laws of physics is missing the point that these laws are shaped by ideology, interest groups, tradition etc.

A political/legal system is not like electronic circuits. It's arbitrary, malleable "positive law", as opposed to "natural law".

Public opion, gun control laws (or rather the lack thereof), the entire debate about the possession of firearms in the US is heavily influenced by the lobbying efforts of weapons manufacturers. They've got top experts in individual and mass psychology working to exploit people's conception about individuality, tradition and identity to further their narrow business interests.

Everyone has to decide if they let themselves fooled like this.

 

[Recording Engineer]

How is our right to bear arms going to hold-up to protect us against the big bad government with their arms? The whole notion and apparent original reason for that arms right by our founding fathers has long been obliterated. Can someone please explain that team politics talking point? Or am I correct that the whole thing is moot and there’s absolutely nothing to be done about it, but everyone always has something to say about everything?

Still no challenge, other than to look toward history (not directed toward me), but I’m unaware of a true apples to apples comparison. I’m looking for a convincing argument based on something, rather than just saying it’s so.

 

[fallout]

Still no challenge, other than to look toward history (not directed toward me), but I’m unaware of a true apples to apples comparison. I’m looking for a convincing argument based on something, rather than just saying it’s so.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” -2nd Amendment

Seems pretty cut and dry.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Refering to written laws (whenever it suits ones point of view) as if these were like the laws of physics is missing the point that these laws are shaped by ideology, interest groups, tradition etc.

How am I selectively applying written law to support only my point of view? Yes, our laws are shaped by our history and tradition. As are yours. The simple solution is that you worry about your laws and we'll worry about ours. You don't hear a bunch of Americans here trying to tell Germans what to do in thier own country. MYOB.

A political/legal system is not like electronic circuits. It's arbitrary, malleable "positive law", as opposed to "natural law".

Of course.

Public opion, gun control laws (or rather the lack thereof), the entire debate about the possession of firearms in the US is heavily influenced by the lobbying efforts of weapons manufacturers. They've got top experts in individual and mass psychology working to exploit people's conception about individuality, tradition and identity to further their narrow business interests.

And where is your evidence of this massive lobbying expenditure and influence campaign? Another Guardian hit-piece, perhaps? What is the relative expenditure made by anti-gun lobbyists?

Everyone has to decide if they let themselves fooled like this.

Who's fooling whom? You simply do not know what is best for my country or my fellow citizens. What guides your philosophy? Who do you consider a leader of human thought? What systems of government do you believe are best?

 

[Recording Engineer]

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” -2nd Amendment

Seems pretty cut and dry.

Still no challenge.