team politics talking points.

[AnalogPackrat]

Just as a thought experiment, what in your opinion would the founding fathers have decided about school shootings? How would they have reconciled the right to bear arms with a huge (relative to every other country in the world) number of innocent children being killed at school by gunmen, and all US school children doing active shooter drills etc? Do you think they would accept school shootings as an unpleasant consequence of the necessary right to bear arms in the USA in 2022?

I imagine they would correctly understand the inseparable dual of individual liberty and personal responsibility. Those guilty of crimes are due their just punishment as they have agency and acted of freewill. The inanimate objects chosen to assist in the commission of said crimes aren't the issue. You might check the FBI UCR and note that more people are killed by hands/feet (i.e., unarmed assailants) than by rifles of all kinds.

I read the argument a lot that they were clever enough to take into account future developments in weaponry etc and were intentionally broad with how they wrote these constitutional points. It's a good justification to keep things the way they are.

But there's not much discussion (that I've seen) about what the founding fathers would have thought about the specifics of daily life for Americans in the USA today.

Hard to say. There are some surviving letters and other writings that reveal some things of relevance. Here's one:

"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe."

--Thomas Jefferson

 

[iturnknobs]

Illinois has all the tough laws you want, yet they didn't stop this killer.

Illinois is an island in a sea of Republican stupidity without gun regulations...Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri, Kentucky AND INDIANA who just allowed concealed carry with no licensing or permits to be required. I recently posted a satellite image of the Indiana/Illinois State line which is just a city block with houses on either side of the street. Imagining that gun laws across the street from no gun laws would be effective is a hilarious argument... You really "laid one on me" there. Way to own the libs.

You might ask why we bother to have background checks if authorities are going to continue to fail to provide relevant data on problematic behavior so that it appears in the actual check. This guy was an adult when he attempted suicide and when he later threatened to kill others. Both incidents involved law enforcement yet nothing appeared on his background check for his FOID or for his firearm purchases. Shouldn't they have?

Is that a "defund the police" argument? Eliminate assault weapons? You seem to be making the point for many upset Americans right now. I'm listening. Keep speaking and making liberals talking points valid.

His father ran as a Democrat in the Mayoral race, didn't he? He should be held accountable as well. How clueless can you be to co-sign for an FOID after what the son did in 2019?

No, he didn't. Nice way to stand up for more gun control in our country. Keep 'em coming.

https://nypost.com/2022/07/05/robert-crimos-dad-liked-pro-gun-tweet-on-day-of-uvalde-massacre/
https://www.newsweek.com/robert-cri...-park-mayor-race-gun-control-democrat-1721775

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Illinois is an island in a sea of Republican stupidity without gun regulations...Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri, Kentucky AND INDIANA who just allowed concealed carry with no licensing or permits to be required. I recently posted a satellite image of the Indiana/Illinois State line which is just a city block with houses on either side of the street. Imagining that gun laws across the street from no gun laws would be effective is a hilarious argument... You really "laid one on me" there. Way to own the libs.

Ah the same chestnut about blaming other states. How original. The killer followed all Federal and Illinois state laws, so your argument has no bearing.
The background check could have stopped it had the prior events been noted. Crimo was also a drug user which already made him a prohibited person under Federal law.

Is that a "defund the police" argument? Eliminate assault weapons? You seem to be making the point for many upset Americans right now. I'm listening. Keep speaking and making liberals talking points valid.

I said nothing of the sort. Read what I wrote.

No, he didn't. Nice way to stand up for more gun control in our country. Keep 'em coming.

I don't stand for more gun control. Enforce the laws on the books already. Stop apologizing for failures of the state's existing gun control laws.

https://nypost.com/2022/07/05/robert-crimos-dad-liked-pro-gun-tweet-on-day-of-uvalde-massacre/

Yeah, as I said, the father should be held responsible as he clearly knew his son was deeply troubled (suicidal, threats of violence, etc.) and still helped him acquire FOID and guns.

https://www.newsweek.com/robert-cri...-park-mayor-race-gun-control-democrat-1721775

I didn't say anything about the incumbent. Father apparently ran as independent. My bad.

 

[iturnknobs]

Ah the same chestnut about blaming other states. How original. The killer followed all Federal and Illinois state laws, so your argument has no bearing.
The background check could have stopped it had the prior events been noted. Crimo was also a drug user which already made him a prohibited person under Federal law.


I said nothing of the sort. Read what I wrote.


I don't stand for more gun control. Enforce the laws on the books already. Stop apologizing for failures of the state's existing gun control laws.


Yeah, as I said, the father should be held responsible as he clearly knew his son was deeply troubled (suicidal, threats of violence, etc.) and still helped him acquire FOID and guns.


I didn't say anything about the incumbent. Father apparently ran as independent. My bad.

Wow. Just wow.
edit: I read what you wrote. You did not read what you wrote. You apparently have problems reading.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I heard this offered by a comedian in jest, but imagine if we could get all the identity politics, cancel culture karens to dox and cancel mentally unstable potential mass murderers.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Wow. Just wow.
edit: I read what you wrote. You did not read what you wrote. You apparently have problems reading.

Fact: Illinois has some of the mosy strict firearms laws in the USA.

Fact: Killer from Illinois.

Fact: Killer was able to obtain FOID card from State of Illinois.

Fact: Killer was able to purchase firearms through FFL(s) in State of Illinois per State and Federal laws despite his two prior encounters with state agencies regarding a suicide attempt and threats to kill his family.

Fact: Killer was drug user which was likely known to father who helped him get FOID, etc. Drug use is a question on Federal 4473 form. It is a felony to lie on the form.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The famous line from Cool Hand Luke... "what we have here is a failure to communicate."

Group hug...

JR

 

[shabtek]

 

[crazydoc]

Fact: Illinois has some of the mosy strict firearms laws in the USA.

Fact: Killer from Illinois.

Fact: Killer was able to obtain FOID card from State of Illinois.

Fact: Killer was able to purchase firearms through FFL(s) in State of Illinois per State and Federal laws despite his two prior encounters with state agencies regarding a suicide attempt and threats to kill his family.

Fact: Killer was drug user which was likely known to father who helped him get FOID, etc. Drug use is a question on Federal 4473 form. It is a felony to lie on the form.

Fact: Firearms laws don't matter. As evidenced by recent events and extending through American history, just about anybody, with any mental pathology, can buy a gun, including assault weapons meant for killing humans, and shoot it into a bunch of people.
I don't see anything stopping this.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Fact: Firearms laws don't matter. As evidenced by recent events and extending through American history, just about anybody, with any mental pathology, can buy a gun, including assault weapons meant for killing humans, and shoot it into a bunch of people.
I don't see anything stopping this.

Fact: Semiautomatic rifles are 100+ year old technology and the first reliable models were sold by Winchester for hunting. The Winchester 1907 was one such rifle which was available in .351 caliber and fed from a detachable box magazine of 5, 10, or 15 rounds. Many other similar designs followed. Semiautomatic pistol designs appeared around the same time.

Fact: Mass civilian shootings are more common now than 100 years ago (or even 40-50 years ago) despite the technology being widely available for a century. Firearm technology isn't causing the problem.

 

[crazydoc]

Firearm technology isn't causing the problem.

But the increased number of firearms, coupled with the increased number of people with mental pathology and the inability to identify them, may be.

 

[iturnknobs]

Fact: Mass shootings decreased 40% from 1994 to 2004
Fact: Mass shootings increased 300% since law lapsed
Fact: Republicans have fought this law since 1994
Fact: Guns do not save lives. They kill. That is their design intent.
Fact: Republicans cannot be pro-life while arguing pro-gun
Inferred fact: Republicans like seeing people die.

https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022...-mass-shootings-heres-what-the-data-tells-us/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0_535JILeyC42Zdp-NzStw
https://gunviolence.issuelab.org/resource/mayhem-multiplied-mass-shooters-assault-weapons.html
https://www.ibanet.org/article/3e4700a8-8a7b-4766-b7cc-f59474f4a894

 

[iturnknobs]

The only possible thing to change the minds is horror falling upon one's own loved ones. May the problem become worse soon so that it may be repaired sooner. This goes for practically all issues I speak out against. I do not wish poorly for people as a whole, but misfortune is the only path to change, proven over and over through history.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

But the increased number of firearms, coupled with the increased number of people with mental pathology and the inability to identify them, may be.

The firearm ownership rate in the US is lower now than it was 50-100 years ago when more of the population lived rurally. Acquisition of firearms is far more difficult now than it was 50+ years ago.

Mental pathology and the radical increase in use of mood and mind altering prescription pharmaceuticals are cause for concern.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

The only possible thing to change the minds is horror falling upon one's own loved ones. May the problem become worse soon so that it may be repaired sooner. This goes for practically all issues I speak out against. I do not wish poorly for people as a whole, but misfortune is the only path to change, proven over and over through history.

Encounters with evil people and the lax response of law enforcement helped change my mind. Same with my wife. When seconds count, you don't have minutes to wait and may not be able to even call 911. I will not outsource my safety or that of my family to strangers.

 

[volker]

Spoiler: This must be the well regulated militia I hear so much about, right?

 

[fallout]

Instead of 'supervised injection sites', perhaps a better plan would be to offer mental health services and/or rehab programs.

 

[iturnknobs]

Encounters with evil people and the lax response of law enforcement helped change my mind. Same with my wife. When seconds count, you don't have minutes to wait and may not be able to even call 911. I will not outsource my safety or that of my family to strangers.

Peacefully give up your worldly possessions in that instance. The world is not that scary, even if your media sources tell you it is. Of someone is truly deranged, they don't want your possessions and you are on the defense, you don't stand much of a chance anyway. If I were crazy and armed and you pulled a gun, I'd light you up before you could point it at me. You are again indirectly making a case against the need for police.

 

[iturnknobs]

Instead of 'supervised injection sites', perhaps a better plan would be to offer mental health services and/or rehab programs.

Two different issues. Alcohol is worse than any of the "drugs" you and your media sources demonize.

edit: Republican voting for Capitalism, lack of regulations and allowing corporations to fund campaigns as "free speech" are what caused the opioid epidemic in this country. Indisputable. Keep peddling "freedom".

 

[shabtek]

this is the brewery

Alcohol is worse than any of the "drugs" you and your media sources demonize.

edit: Republican voting for Capitalism, lack of regulations and allowing corporations to fund campaigns as "free speech" are what caused the opioid epidemic in this country. Indisputable. Keep peddling "freedom".

its not only republicans