the modern desk/console in 2021...

[FIX]

There is on one 'S' in bus and a total of only two in buses. It still surprises me that so many manufacturers still make this elementary spelling mistake; even Rupert has done it.

Cheers

Ian

Well, since I have been building consoles since 1978, Owned API and owned Tonelux, I say that BUS and BUSSES are correct, and since the dictionary definition has to do with motorized busses, that's the way it will be. It's funny how Rupert, Saul and I are all wrong, but we pretty much invented the mix bus... LOL

 

[FIX]

I don't know if this is Paul or not, but I've always been interested in the FIX console since it was briefly mentioned on Gear Club Podcast. I've always been sad that there wasn't more information readily available about it online—at least where I looked. The routing alone sounds incredible from what you've described. One thing I was never clear on was whether or not the console has its own preamps—pictures always show a lot of 500 series equipment slotted in, so it seems more like a mix console. Can you give us more information?

It is me... The lack of information is because their just isn't enough of me to go around. BUT... in the bright side, it is totally custom to your needs, and you can have as many 500 buckets as you want, I've sold a pretty equal amount of consoles that were for tracking and mixing. The new input module has a DAW loop for monitoring (us old guys call it inline monitoring) specifically for tracking...

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Well, since I have been building consoles since 1978, Owned API and owned Tonelux, I say that BUS and BUSSES are correct, and since the dictionary definition has to do with motorized busses, that's the way it will be. It's funny how Rupert, Saul and I are all wrong, but we pretty much invented the mix bus... LOL

Paul, correcting the extra "S' is an ongoing "Grammar Nazi" thing round here.

I used to write Busses myself but was shamed out of it long ago so I generally go with the flow now.

But we all know what we're talking about so, onwards and upwards.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Well, since I have been building consoles since 1978, Owned API and owned Tonelux, I say that BUS and BUSSES are correct, and since the dictionary definition has to do with motorized busses, that's the way it will be.

Oxford dictionary says: plural buses, US English also busses
That should make everyone happy.

It's funny how Rupert, Saul and I are all wrong, but we pretty much invented the mix bus... LOL

Wow! That is quite a claim...

 

[Winston OBoogie]

That should make everyone happy.

It does.
Sorta.
But I think I'm gonna go for using ¨ß from now on.

 

[calaverasgrande]

Love the idea of a convenience input on the monitor section.
(My Xdesk calls this 'iJack')
You can avoid BT in the desk with a simple 3.5mm to Lightning adapter. Though this will eventually become a drawer full of dongles and such to accommodate USB-C and other connections. This pandemic has taught us to be flexible with working arrangements, so it may be a good idea for it to be routable to Cue.

Mind blown by the idea of a blended insert. So many applications for that!

I can see the utility of having busses. But in my experience they would only be useful if they have inserts and flexible routing. It really is a prospect of diminshing returns as you have more and more busses though.
As I said previous, there isn't the same need for multitrack busses as when we had 2" decks and were stuck at 16 or 24 tracks. It's really just a utility for subgrouping sources now. I couldn't see use for more than 8? But maybe that is just me.

On "Buss";
If the meaning is conveyed, it is correct.
for example; both mustache and moustache are correct.
Though my silly Apple computer doesn't believe me on the latter, if I change my location settings It will prefer the latter over the former.
It is hilarious to quibble about spelling in English when we have such unresolved conflicts as
ought, draught, through, though etc. English is a chaotic mess compared to German, Japanese or Spanish which have more regular pronunciation and spelling.
The fact we are able to communicate at all with this mongrel language is incredible. Pat yourself on the back!

 

[ruffrecords]

Well, since I have been building consoles since 1978, Owned API and owned Tonelux, I say that BUS and BUSSES are correct, and since the dictionary definition has to do with motorized busses, that's the way it will be. It's funny how Rupert, Saul and I are all wrong, but we pretty much invented the mix bus... LOL

It seems to be a relatively modern error. When I worked for Rupert back in the early 70s it was definitely spelled buses. I suspect he got americanized in later life.

But don't take my word for it:

Busses or Buses—Which Is Correct? | Grammarly.

Apparently spelling it incorrectly with a double S is a rarity - but it seems to be surprisingly prevalent in the audio community.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Holger]

We had an Trident 80b in the 1990s and learned to use "buss" from looking at this ;-)

 

[abbey road d enfer]

What annoys me more is that the meaning of bus changed from the original sense of mixing bus, to that of group output.
Messing with orthograph is just casualness, messing with meaning is much more perverse.

 

[boji]

Hope the OP doesn't mind a question unrelated to console features, but keeping on topic of bus:

A differential bus topology will rather elegantly subtract the difference between the channel audio ground reference and master section audio ground reference.

I've never fully understood how to properly implement differential VE summing. Anyone care to share a section of schematic or even better, expand upon a real world console example? It would be much appreciated.

 

[calaverasgrande]

It seems to be a relatively modern error. When I worked for Rupert back in the early 70s it was definitely spelled buses. I suspect he got americanized in later life.

But don't take my word for it:

Busses or Buses—Which Is Correct? | Grammarly.

Apparently spelling it incorrectly with a double S is a rarity - but it seems to be surprisingly prevalent in the audio community.

Cheers

Ian

Which would be salient if we were talking about public transportation, and not audio engineering.
Honestly it's a silly thing to be concerned about proper spelling with a language that insists the present and past tense of the verb "read" are pronounced different, yet spelled the same.

 

[ruffrecords]

Which would be salient if we were talking about public transportation, and not audio engineering.

I agree. Busses is the plural of buss and a buss is an old English word meaning kiss which is certainly not salient to audio engineering.
Cheers

Ian

 

[Uk03878v2]

And setting levels with the mouse...

I have thought about this comment for a few days
I haven’t been active in this group for 15 years but I used to back in the day, in fact I took my young daughter to Peter P’s sisters house back in the day, my daughter is going to university in a few months (Peter if you are still watching, she remembers you)
Anyways, I am now retired after decades designing computer systems (need to know about social media harvesting and data science, ping me) and I thought about this comment and suddenly I thought, why do we have circular pots in software
Because they look like desks and back in the day cost and board real estate made them into knobs
Why on earth are why trying to use a mouse to turn a knob rather than a mouse controlling a linear control today?

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I've never fully understood how to properly implement differential VE summing. Anyone care to share a section of schematic or even better, expand upon a real world console example? It would be much appreciated.

There are two basic approaches to that.
One is to use a more-or-less standard opamp and use two bus, one connected to the inverting input, the other to the non-inverting. That works, it gets rid of longitudinal noise, but has the same noise build-up as a standard non-differential summing amp (actually, the noise figure may be worse because of the added resistance in the non-inverting leg).
The other method uses two summing amps, one on each leg, which outputs feed a diff amp.
Since diff mix bus are more relevant to large mixers, designers have created very low-noise summing amps that use discterte transistors oprating at large-ish current, which provide good adaptation of the OSI to the bus resistance.
I believe the recent SSL thread illustrates this technique.

 

[pucho812]

There is on one 'S' in bus and a total of only two in buses. It still surprises me that so many manufacturers still make this elementary spelling mistake; even Rupert has done it.

Cheers

Ian

that's up there with mike pre. I have seen it as Mike at times. I almost want to add 's and have it specifically for mike whoever he is.
Buss is an actual word it means a kiss as a noun and as a verb means to kiss. according to google it is sometimes confused with bus. I have been told and it sounds correct that the use of buss instead of bus in audio goes back to a company that made fuses and their name was bussman. I don't know if it is true but it it seems plausible. At any rate I wouldn't argue with mr wolf, his cornbread ain't done in the middle as they say.

 

[FIX]

It makes us unique...

 

[PermO]

 

[calaverasgrande]

Ditto on the frustration with mousing rotary controls.
At least in Logic you can change the view of the plugin from graphically skinned to just 'controls'.
It's a toggle on the upper right of every plugin labeled 'View'.
But really this is just one symptom of the whole disease of mixing in the box.
No matter what I do I can never get it to 'render' my mix the same way I hear it.
Sonar, Logic, Cubase and every other DAW I've tried always kind of goofs the mix width and depth. Often in less subtle ways. I swear some DAWs mono the effects returns on mixdown. At least the result is distinctly not as stereo as during the mixing process.
It doesn't make sense on paper that the hardware mix buss with it's mediocre SNR of 95db would have better width and depth than the virtual mix buss, most of which ar 64bit floating point or similar with -289dbfs theoretical dynamic range.
This and the mousing knobs thing got me to head back into hardware mixers after a decade without.

Oh yeah, fixing a Realistic Moog MG1
found this in the service manual.

 

[groselicain]

But really this is just one symptom of the whole disease of mixing in the box.
No matter what I do I can never get it to 'render' my mix the same way I hear it.
Sonar, Logic, Cubase and every other DAW I've tried always kind of goofs the mix width and depth. Often in less subtle ways. I swear some DAWs mono the effects returns on mixdown. At least the result is distinctly not as stereo as during the mixing process.

I'll respond to this and add that I'm not trying to derail the conversation.

I completely agree with your assessment—and would take it a step further by adding that I'm convinced that the width and depth is different across DAWs. I know that sounds crazy, but my ears are one of the few things I trust.

That's one of the myriad reasons why I have no interest in going back to summing digitally—my mixes maintain consistency now, regardless of the DAW I'm working in—and have put so many hours into researching the console to go for next.

 

[GeorgeToledo]

One of the biggest issues with discrepancy between listening to the session live and rendering in a DAW, is that some plugins may shift to oversampling at some capacity depending on rendering settings, which at the very least can change the outcome. Not all plugins expose granular control of what they are doing under the hood in this regard.

There are potentially also issues of DAW software using greater bit depth for some mixer operations during offline render. It varies on an app level, it varies on plugin level, and clear cut answers are not always documented either.