The real attack on Democracy.

[hodad]

I've noted it here for years--probably a decade or more at this point--that the most substantial threat to American democracy. Of course, the pace of this attack has increased in the past few years, and legislators have been emboldened by an extremist court that seems happy to rubber-stamp any oppressive nonsense they get around to passing.

The nationwide attack on Black voters

Oh, and speaking of the courts:

Federal H.B. 1020 Lawsuit Continues Without Chief Justice

 

[living sounds]

Yes, there are serious issues with the US democracy. Another problem is the use of the shadow docket:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_docket
A new book explains it in detail:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/17/books/review/the-shadow-docket-stephen-vladeck.html

 

[JohnRoberts]

The threat to democracy often overstated to rally a political base. The threat if at all, is dominantly from an ignorant population. The weaponized partisan DOJ is worthy of more investigation.

The political manipulators work tirelessly to divide us, and paint everyone as a victim, needing government "help".

Our republic is not perfect, but pretty much the best system man has come up with, so far.

JR

 

[Recording Engineer]

The threat to democracy often overstated to rally a political base.

Same can be said for the weaponizing partisan DOJ position; and the list goes on, and on, and on, and…

The threat if at all, is dominantly from an ignorant population. The weaponized partisan DOJ is worthy of more investigation.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Same can be said for the weaponizing partisan DOJ position; and the list goes on, and on, and on, and…

huh?

Justice is supposed be blind and even treatment under the law is a key principal.

The behavior of the DOJ is far from symmetrical with respect to political party.

JR

 

[Recording Engineer]

The behavior of the DOJ is far from symmetrical with respect to political party.

often overstated to rally a political base.

There’s no huh there, you stated it yourself. I’m only showing how it applies when looking in the mirror. Discount or tell me it doesn’t apply, or it’s not the same, all you like. I’m sure there will be plenty.

 

[JohnRoberts]

There’s no huh there, you stated it yourself. I’m only showing how it applies when looking in the mirror. Discount or tell me it doesn’t apply, or it’s not the same, all you like. I’m sure there will be plenty.

I trust that makes sense to you, I have difficulty following along.

JR

 

[Recording Engineer]

It sure does makes sense to me. Here’s as straight-forward as it gets:

“The behavior of the DOJ is far from symmetrical with respect to political party” line is “often overstated to rally a political base”.

 

[pucho812]

It sure does makes sense to me. Here’s as straight-forward as it gets:

“The behavior of the DOJ is far from symmetrical with respect to political party” line is “often overstated to rally a political base”.

What you are trying to point out is that saying the doj is far from symmetrical with respect political party is used by the opposition to rally their base.
The problem here is time and time again, there is proof to back up that claim.

 

[Matador]

The problem here is time and time again, there is proof to back up that claim.

Indeed. Just ask Hillary Clinton about July of 2016.

 

[Recording Engineer]

The problem here is time and time again, there is proof to back up that claim.

I’m absolutely not saying there’s not plenty of bits of truth to that… The key line here is “often overstated to rally a political base”.

 

[pucho812]

I’m absolutely not saying there’s not plenty of bits of truth to that… The key line here is “often overstated to rally a political base”.

Which each new incident, should it not be mentioned. It would one thing if it was a one off and there was constantly harping on the one off. But each incident merits it. If anything to let them know we all see it. You shouldn’t do that.

 

[Recording Engineer]

A politician’s job, along with all the radio/tv 24-hours “news”, and all the other endless “experts”, is to take bits of truth, manipulate in any way possible (it’s a talent in and of itself), and tirelessly overstate it to rally a political base.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Which each new incident, should it not be mentioned. It would one thing if it was a one off and there was constantly harping on the one off. But each incident merits it. If anything to let them know we all see it. You shouldn’t do that.

I didn’t follow any of that.

 

[pucho812]

I didn’t follow any of that.

To put it simply, you think the focus on the a-symmetrical operations by the doj is purely to rally the oppositions base. That it is basically beating a dead horse.
While I think that each time a new thing is discovered it should be discussed. The doj is doing things out in the open. We see it.

 

[Recording Engineer]

To put it simply, you think the focus on the a-symmetrical operations by the doj is purely to rally the oppositions base. That it is basically beating a dead horse.
While I think that each time a new thing is discovered it should be discussed. The doj is doing things out in the open. We see it.

I understand. However, right now (ever since Trump’s 2016 campaign), it’s been the rally cry from Trump, his supporters, his at-one-time supporters, and anyone who feels kind of sorry for the guy because the deep-swamp never gave him a fair-shake (puke)… I don’t care to give him the time of day for all those newly-discovered things. That time comes after the court system, when everything is out in the open, in front of those that matter; prosecution, defense, judge, and jury.

The endless court cases of Trump winning the 2020 election is far over. We can discuss that. Any finished DOJ court cases you’d like to discuss? I know, it’s about those they chose not to prosecute. Do we really need to discuss the endless speculation from both sides?

 

[Recording Engineer]

What it comes down to is that the articles hodad presented showcased a problem in our democracy, with very-specific current examples, and the response was “often overstated to rally a political base”, and that “weaponizing partisan DOJ” is more important. I can dismiss “weaponizing partisan DOJ” with “often overstated to rally a political base”, just as easily. We’re both not wrong and keeps hodad right.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Indeed. Just ask Hillary Clinton about July of 2016.

steele dossier? Bleach bitting government emails, private server, etc.
===
By law government employees are not allowed to interfere with US (?) elections.

There are fair arguments that they have interfered criminally. Nixon got toasted for his "plumbers" breaking into the Watergate hotel.

This has been "worse than watergate"

I am too old to wait for an accurate historical record, so I will share my opinions now.

JR

PS: we are still a republic. I saw James Comey on TV pimping his new book, that guy is a trip.

 

[hodad]

Our republic is not perfect, but pretty much the best system man has come up with, so far.

Sounds all good and noble, but why is the GOP working so hard these days to make it worse rather than better? For the better part of this century US conservatives have been slowly chipping away at voting rights, grooming judges to accede to their anti-democratic whims, and setting the stage for permanent minority rule--if not on a national level then certainly in numerous states, including yours and mine. How can I feel good about my state govt. when I live in a nearly evenly split D-to-R state but that nearly has Republican supermajorities in both chambers of the state legislature? How can I feel good about the GOP's commitment to "the best system man has come up with" when these gerrymandered legislatures--in your state, my state, and Texas as well--have passed laws to thwart democracy specifically in left-leaning, majority-minority areas? If you truly believe this is the best system so far, I'd expect you to care more about preserving it.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Sounds all good and noble, but why is the GOP working so hard these days to make it worse rather than better? For the better part of this century US conservatives have been slowly chipping away at voting rights, grooming judges to accede to their anti-democratic whims, and setting the stage for permanent minority rule--if not on a national level then certainly in numerous states, including yours and mine. How can I feel good about my state govt. when I live in a nearly evenly split D-to-R state but that nearly has Republican supermajorities in both chambers of the state legislature? How can I feel good about the GOP's commitment to "the best system man has come up with" when these gerrymandered legislatures--in your state, my state, and Texas as well--have passed laws to thwart democracy specifically in left-leaning, majority-minority areas? If you truly believe this is the best system so far, I'd expect you to care more about preserving it.

Thanks for sharing the current partisan talking points.

I noticed James Comey hitting some of those same points on TV the other day (while pimping his new book).

JR

PS: We are still a republic, but i expect "threat to democracy" scored higher with the focus groups.