The Vaccine

[L´Andratté]

The great majority of those surveyed (88%) said that persistently low vaccine coverage in many countries would make it more likely that vaccine-resistant mutations will appear.[/i][/b]

Sounds comprehensible...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Nobody knows - at this point it's conjecture, even among epidemiologists:

COVID Vaccines Could Lose Their Punch Within a Year, Experts Say
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/948425?src=mkm_covid_update_210330_MSCPEDIT&uac=37266AR&impID=3281860&faf=1#vp_1

The take home for me is:
Offit said it will be critical to monitor anyone who gets hospitalized who is known to have been infected or fully vaccinated. Then countries need to get really good at sequencing those viruses, he added.

The great majority of those surveyed (88%) said that persistently low vaccine coverage in many countries would make it more likely that vaccine-resistant mutations will appear.

It is no secret that I am an unrepentant optimist, and I have warned before about the doom and gloom bias of media to scare us into watching.

Add to that speculation by professionals like epidemiologist are thinking in terms of the worst case scenario, not the never mind no problem scenario...  So the combination of worst case speculation, with media cherry picking the scariest news they can find can paint a pretty dark picture...

I am not saying don't worry, but try to hold speculation and media headlines in reasonable perspective.

Dr Fauci has been criticized for being too conservative advising people to wear multiple masks, but from his (zero virus transmission) perspective that could be completely sensible.

Most members of this forum should have the tool kit for critical thinking, use it.

JR

PS: When a politician says "this isn't politics" it surely is. If they say "follow the science", it has nothing to do with science. George Orwell, pretty much exposed their game with his political science fiction book "1984". 

 

[Tubetec]

Reminds me a bit of the old joke ,
How do you tell when a politician is lying ? , his lips are moving 

 

[crazydoc]

It is no secret that I am an unrepentant optimist, and I have warned before about the doom and gloom bias of media to scare us into watching.

Add to that speculation by professionals like epidemiologist are thinking in terms of the worst case scenario, not the never mind no problem scenario...

Yeah, how'd that "no problem" work out?

Jan. 22, 2020
“No, not at all. We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

Jan. 30
“We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five. And those people are all recuperating successfully.”

Feb. 14
“There’s a theory that, in April, when it gets warm — historically, that has been able to kill the virus. So we don’t know yet; we’re not sure yet.”

Feb. 24
“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

Feb. 26
“We’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.”

Feb. 26
“The risk to the American people remains very low. We have the greatest experts, really in the world, right here.”

Feb. 27
“It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”

 

[Tubetec]

D'Trumpher seems to have pulled off one hell of a disappearing act himself ,even Harry Houdini would be in awe , no amount of historical airbrushing will put a shine on his gob-sh!teism
He didnt make America any greater in the end ,in fact he almost brought it to its knees , politics and mass market social media is a match made in hell .

 

[JohnRoberts]

D'Trumpher seems to have pulled off one hell of a disappearing act himself ,even Harry Houdini would be in awe , no amount of historical airbrushing will put a shine on his gob-sh!teism
He didnt make America any greater in the end ,in fact he almost brought it to its knees , politics and mass market social media is a match made in hell .

I think a started a separate thread for political spin....  There is pretty long list of false statements about Covid... Including China is still denying where it came from.

I recall Dr Fauci before he called for wearing multiple masks, said that masks were not needed, when he wanted to conserve limited supply of PPE for his fellow health professionals.

====

President Trump didn't disappear himself but has been censored (cancelled) by several social media groups. Not sure what exactly they are afraid of but I can imagine.

====

Getting back on topic, I was incorrect about the tested age range for the 100% effective Pfizer vaccine, correct age is 12-15 YO.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Ironically smoking and obesity are both bad when infected with Covid...out of the frying pan into the fire

Smokers are statistically underrepresented in the hospitalised group. As are people with blood type O.

Iron and vitamine D deficiency, and obesity seem to be the clearest factor in getting really sick.

That's based on numbers from a few countries. Most notably Brazil, with 2000 Covid-deaths per day currently.

 

[analag]

I'm going to make the appointment. I need to travel. I need to occassionally exit the US for some fresh air!

 

[Tubetec]

Theres uproar here in Ireland about the roll out . Staff at several hospitals seem to have organised family and friends to come in to take left over doses at the end of the days work . Media got a hold of the story and it seems to have played a part in shifting public policy regarding the roll out. Medical people have got preference over the general public , but that policy doesnt appear to extend to other at risk groups such as law enforcement and teachers . Now its to be given out stricktly by age bracket ,older first , yeah ok its a simple policy ,no ambiguity and less chance of argueing over priority . Teachers unions(perhaps the second most powerful lobby in the country to the farmers)have now threatened industrial action if there not moved up the list . From the stats that are emerging theres fairly clear evidence to say overweight people have far greater chances of being hospitalised or dying as a result of covid infection , but no mention of that by the people who set the priority .

 

[cyrano]

President Trump didn't disappear himself but has been censored (cancelled) by several social media groups. Not sure what exactly they are afraid of but I can imagine.

Thanks, John, haven't laughed this hard in a long time!

 

[Tubetec]

Questions about the safety/efficacy of the Astra/Oxford have surfaced again , the public health advice here in Ireland says take it , the advantages outweight the possible downsides , meanwhile our next door neighbours the UK have decided to make another vax option, besides AS/OX, available to people under the age of 30 , again we must ask what is the basis for this decision , what do these experts know that we dont ?  In Ireland vaccination records amount to a  'paper chit' given to recipients , is there even a centralised database to keep track of the reporting of side effects ? Still ,No is the answer , Its not even remotely scientific how its being handled.

We cant even lock the borders down on an island FFS  :-[ Ulster Unionists wont allow a border in the Irish sea , people on both sides of the bordering counties in Ireland need access over the land border for everyday working and living to be possible , meanwhile the rainbow coalition government  south of the border  is wracked with disagreement and are making excuse after excuse instead of instituting proper water tight quarantine measures at ports and airports. 

 

[cyrano]

Brazil is up to 4000 deaths a day. The USA is around 2000.

We're close to a hundred mutations worldwide. A couple do not show up in tests. At least one mutation in Brazil infects fully vaccinated people. About one third of Covid patients is still not recovered six months after leaving the hospital. This is possibly the biggest long-term threat.

Israel "forgot" to pay the latest shipment of vaccins. The manufacturer halted delivery of the next batch. On the sideline, it shows they weren't as far ahead as we were made to believe and they paid a lot more than other countries.

People seem to be slowly shifting to protest instead of cooperation.

The UK seems to have made a real cockup of the Irish border situation. That's just one place of protest. It's more about Brexit than Covid, but it surely isn't helping.

In Holland, demands for changes to the entire system of vaccination are growing stronger. And since there isn't a government yet, protesters of different kinds are slowly pulling together.

In Belgium, the youth is protesting, with some artists as catalyst. The law backing Covid measures has been rendered unconstitutional.

In France, some ministers have been caught dining illegally in exclusive restaurants in Paris. Not good for moral.

I don't know much about the rest of Europe, so it would be nice to hear how your country is doing.

 

[kambo]

I recall Dr Fauci before he called for wearing multiple masks, said that masks were not needed, when he wanted to conserve limited supply of PPE for his fellow health professionals.

thats the biggest lie that dr fauci "wanted to conserve limited supply of PPE for his fellow health professionals"

those masks were off the market and off the shelf , or sold out even before he said anything like that...
only masks were available at that time were chinese kn95 s... 
dr fauci even admitted on a TV show that  that was a big mistake!
cnn and its idiotic doctor took the lead for not wearing a mask!

 

[Matt Nolan]

Questions about the safety/efficacy of the Astra/Oxford have surfaced again , the public health advice here in Ireland says take it , the advantages outweight the possible downsides , meanwhile our next door neighbours the UK have decided to make another vax option, besides AS/OX, available to people under the age of 30 , again we must ask what is the basis for this decision , what do these experts know that we dont ?

From what I understand, the UK decision has been taken because the benefit/risk balance isn't quite so favourable for the under 30s.

Over 30s - 1 in 250,000 chance you will die from a result of a blood clot after having had the AZ vaccine. Under 30s - 1 in 100,000 chance. 2/3 of those will be female - though how the stats on that latter fact can be that accurate with only 79 deaths total is unclear to me. Pundit on the TV news last night pointed out that you are equally likely to die in a car accident  (1 in 100,000) every three months, and way more likely to die specifically of a blood clot from Covid-19, let alone die from Covid-19 in general.

 

[Tubetec]

Thanks for those extra facts and figures Matt .

 

[JohnRoberts]

thats the biggest lie that dr fauci "wanted to conserve limited supply of PPE for his fellow health professionals"

FAUCI: Exactly, that’s the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it.

==
On March 27, Fauci spoke to a San Francisco NBC affiliate. He said given the shortage of masks, the general public ranked last behind doctors and nurses, and people who are infected.

"When we say you don't need to wear a mask, what we're really saying is make sure you prioritize it first for the people who need the mask," Fauci said. "In a perfect world, if you had all the masks you wanted, then you could get some degree of protection, but make sure you prioritize it well."

those masks were off the market and off the shelf , or sold out even before he said anything like that...
only masks were available at that time were chinese kn95 s... 
dr fauci even admitted on a TV show that  that was a big mistake!
cnn and its idiotic doctor took the lead for not wearing a mask!

Sorry I don't watch CNN but am aware of limited availability of real N95 masks...  I only recently found some US made n95 from a small company in FL. Amazon has long been selling N95 but sales are limited to health professionals. Several months ago I bought some KN95s that were falsely described as N95 by an amazon merchant. They received those back.

I have paid close attention to the messaging surrounding this issue, a lot of the public advice is situational and changes with facts on the ground changing.

I try not to lie, or repeat misinformation.

JR

 

[Tubetec]

Theres an interesting point been made in local media here about the the blood clotting issues . When the Astra vaccine was administered to mice intravenously it was found to cause blood clots. The healthcare professional has suggested that on very rare ocassions while trying to deliver something intramuscularly you could hit a blood vessel . In his own experience of 40 years he only saw it happen on a couple of ocassions , the simple way to prevent this happening is to 'aspirate' or withdraw the syrynge plunger , if blood appears you move the needle to another spot .

 

[JohnRoberts]

Theres an interesting point been made in local media here about the the blood clotting issues . When the Astra vaccine was administered to mice intravenously it was found to cause blood clots. The healthcare professional has suggested that on very rare ocassions while trying to deliver something intramuscularly you could hit a blood vessel . In his own experience of 40 years he only saw it happen on a couple of ocassions , the simple way to prevent this happening is to 'aspirate' or withdraw the syrynge plunger , if blood appears you move the needle to another spot .

Interesting speculation.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

the simple way to prevent this happening is to 'aspirate' or withdraw the syrynge plunger

That's the way we were taught to give injections all those years ago - but apparently nobody takes the extra second to do that any more, whether it's still taught or not. I've never gotten a jab (flu, tetanus, covid) where that was done.

Interesting thought that IV administration could cause other side effects. Sounds like a potential million dollar research grant. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

That's the way we were taught to give injections all those years ago - but apparently nobody takes the extra second to do that any more, whether it's still taught or not. I've never gotten a jab (flu, tetanus, covid) where that was done.

Interesting thought that IV administration could cause other side effects. Sounds like a potential million dollar research grant. 

I get my second jab tomorrow.... unsure if I want to share all this with the soldiers doing the jabbing (hard to communicate effectively while wearing my mask).

I thought the 1st jab was given higher up my arm than usual, perhaps because of me still sitting inside my car with window rolled down, but some quick research finds CDC advice that intramuscular injections should use the deltoid (shoulder) muscles. So they were right on target. There is also some advice about length of needle to reach down into the center of muscle mass, but not beyond.

I probably won't have an opportunity to chat with the jab crew .

JR