The Vaccine

[analag]

In years to come when some of you become mutants, I hope you get some kool super powers

 

[cyrano]

Pfizer is developing a pill. First human trials have started:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-initiates-phase-1-study-novel-oral-antiviral

“Tackling the COVID-19 pandemic requires both prevention via vaccine and targeted treatment for those who contract the virus. Given the way that SARS-CoV-2 is mutating and the continued global impact of COVID-19, it appears likely that it will be critical to have access to therapeutic options both now and beyond the pandemic,” said Mikael Dolsten, MD, PhD., Chief Scientific Officer and President, Worldwide Research, Development and Medical of Pfizer. “We have designed PF-07321332 as a potential oral therapy that could be prescribed at the first sign of infection, without requiring that patients are hospitalized or in critical care. At the same time, Pfizer’s intravenous antiviral candidate is a potential novel treatment option for hospitalized patients. Together, the two have the potential to create an end to end treatment paradigm that complements vaccination in cases where disease still occurs.”

 

[crazydoc]

The Trumpiest county in California comes through again, leading our way out of the pandemic:

In Lassen County, for instance, only about 20% of residents have received at least one vaccine dose — easily the lowest rate in the state, according to data compiled by The Times.
...
While the federal estimates indicate that only a relative sliver of Californians may balk at getting vaccinated, other polling data have found a far higher level of resistance.
In a statewide survey published in March by the Public Policy Institute of California, 21% of adult respondents said they would either probably not or definitely not get the vaccine.
Among those with the highest hesitancy rate were registered Republicans, 39% of whom said they would probably not or definitely not get vaccinated.

That opinion was shared by 19% of independents and only 10% of registered Democrats.

All seven California counties with the highest estimated rates of hesitancy went for Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential election.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/californias-secret-weapon-in-covid-19-success-we-are-not-skeptical-about-the-vaccine/ar-BB1gfVO3

 

[JohnRoberts]

An interesting development in the world of Covid vaccines the Biden administration is now supporting a WHO initiative to waive IP protection for COVID vaccines.

I am not a fan of big Pharma but who expects them to develop the next big life saving technology (like mRNA vaccines) with no payback for all the capital investment?

JR

 

[user 37518]

It appears that the UK gamble to delay second jabs and use the supply freed up to give more people first jabs instead has paid off...

My neighbor was due to get his second jab this week but postponed it because he was scheduled to go camping with some of his sons. He saw my reaction to my second dose and decided he didn't want that to happen to him out at his deer camp.

We seem to be getting some mixed messaging about mask wearing... but it appears covid is diminishing despite their confusion.

Some bad experiences still in the third world. I read about one lady in south America who caught Covid and died after getting her first vaccination but it was one of the Chinese vaccines with only single digit protection from the first jab.

Be well, and keep washing your hands...

JR

We just got our first case of the Indian strain here in Mexico, lets see how it goes.... I try not to leave my house at all, I order food, I work online, only time I go out is on Sunday Mass, churches are abandoned mostly so no biggie, when I enter the confession box I feel like I am entering a clean room at Intel, the priest has basically a hazmat suit on, not a big fan of the communion on the hand thou.....

 

[cyrano]

An interesting development in the world of Covid vaccines the Biden administration is now supporting a WHO initiative to waive IP protection for COVID vaccines.

I am not a fan of big Pharma but who expects them to develop the next big life saving technology (like mRNA vaccines) with no payback for all the capital investment?

JR

Solidarity?

I saw the financial numbers for one of the big pharma providers recently. Forgot which one, exactly. The Covid stuff wasn't even noticeable on the books and they were making real big profit.

Banks over here have been asked to go easy on loan foreclosures, to avoid people losing their homes. They complied with just a little grumbling.

I don't see why big pharma couldn't do the same as it means very little to them, financially.

If bankers understand the need, why wouldn't big pharma understand? They're even closer to the problem...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Solidarity?

I saw the financial numbers for one of the big pharma providers recently. Forgot which one, exactly. The Covid stuff wasn't even noticeable on the books and they were making real big profit.

Solidarity with the left's class warfare... punish businesses for being successful and creating wealth?

Banks over here have been asked to go easy on loan foreclosures, to avoid people losing their homes. They complied with just a little grumbling.

Forbearance on debt is a far different thing than giving away intellectual property. If the banks are saddled with negative interest rates, forbearance means they don't have to pay interest to mortgage holders. In fact they would probably apply the negative interest rate to reducing principal instead of growing it during forbearance.

I don't see why big pharma couldn't do the same as it means very little to them, financially.

It took the drug industry 10 years and huge capital investments to develop mRNA vaccine technology, they are maybe just now breaking even (if that?). mRNA technology is very promising for addressing far more human diseases than just the current corona virus strains (maybe even cancer?). If business has to operate under the threat of future game changing technology being given away to competitors, why bother making huge investments in time and capital?

If bankers understand the need, why wouldn't big pharma understand? They're even closer to the problem...

Bankers are beholding to their individual country's governments for keeping them solvent (mostly). When told to jump their only response is "how high".

JR

PS: mNRA vaccine technology is suitably complex with convoluted supply chains for numerous component parts. Even telling China or India how to make it doesn't promise serious competition in the near term, but a mass rush from everybody for limited critical supplies will increase the cost basis for the pioneers in the near term. If I was younger I would buy some Moderna stock, down on the news, but I'm too old to gamble on such trades.

 

[Lee_M]

An interesting development in the world of Covid vaccines the Biden administration is now supporting a WHO initiative to waive IP protection for COVID vaccines.

I am not a fan of big Pharma but who expects them to develop the next big life saving technology (like mRNA vaccines) with no payback for all the capital investment?

JR

I know over 97% of the funding for the research behind the Oxford/AZ came from public sources, and many of the other vaccines that are either awaiting approval or undergoing trials were developed by State-Owned Enterprises.

I'm sure we could probably make do without the 3% of R&D costs that Big Pharma kicked in, especially considering that they'll be expecting to keep 100% of the returns once they declare the pandemic to be over.

https://www.theguardian.com/science...covid-vaccine-research-was-97-publicly-funded
This isn't even particularly out of the norm, most truly innovative/risky R&D is massively funded by the state, the role of the private sector in this stuff is massively overblown. Mariana Mazzucato's book "The Entrepreneurial State" is a great read on this topic.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Moderna got something like $1B from operation warp speed ($2.5B over time), but at least some of that was for guaranteed purchases of vaccines before they were finished and tested, otherwise we might still be waiting for it, if they didn't start making them until after they were approved.

I would entertain government putting strings on federal funding for R&D where the government owns a say in the control of the IP... Just taking it by government force after the fact, is not honoring rule of law.

JR

 

[user 37518]

Solidarity?

I saw the financial numbers for one of the big pharma providers recently. Forgot which one, exactly. The Covid stuff wasn't even noticeable on the books and they were making real big profit.

Banks over here have been asked to go easy on loan foreclosures, to avoid people losing their homes. They complied with just a little grumbling.

I don't see why big pharma couldn't do the same as it means very little to them, financially.

If bankers understand the need, why wouldn't big pharma understand? They're even closer to the problem...

Cyrano, you are so far to the left that you've almost gone full circle back to the extreme right.

 

[cyrano]

Solidarity?

I saw the financial numbers for one of the big pharma providers recently. Forgot which one, exactly. The Covid stuff wasn't even noticeable on the books and they were making real big profit.

Banks over here have been asked to go easy on loan foreclosures, to avoid people losing their homes. They complied with just a little grumbling.

I don't see why big pharma couldn't do the same as it means very little to them, financially.

If bankers understand the need, why wouldn't big pharma understand? They're even closer to the problem...

Solidarity with the left's class warfare... punish businesses for being successful and creating wealth?

You don't even understand the word.

Solidarity is between human beings. Maybe between humans and other life. It's got nothing to with doctrine.

Forbearance on debt is a far different thing than giving away intellectual property. If the banks are saddled with negative interest rates, forbearance means they don't have to pay interest to mortgage holders. In fact they would probably apply the negative interest rate to reducing principal instead of growing it during forbearance.

It took the drug industry 10 years and huge capital investments to develop mRNA vaccine technology, they are maybe just now breaking even (if that?). mRNA technology is very promising for addressing far more human diseases than just the current corona virus strains (maybe even cancer?). If business has to operate under the threat of future game changing technology being given away to competitors, why bother making huge investments in time and capital?

Wrong. Most of the "capital" comes from public sources. From people who understand the words solidarity, compassion and care.

Not from shareholders who only understand dollars.

Bankers are beholding to their individual country's governments for keeping them solvent (mostly). When told to jump their only response is "how high".

JR

You obviously never had anything to do with banks. They can easily move elsewhere, leaving most governments powerless.

PS: mNRA vaccine technology is suitably complex with convoluted supply chains for numerous component parts. Even telling China or India how to make it doesn't promise serious competition in the near term, but a mass rush from everybody for limited critical supplies will increase the cost basis for the pioneers in the near term. If I was younger I would buy some Moderna stock, down on the news, but I'm too old to gamble on such trades.

I'm sure you would, John. Unfortunately, the good will be punished for the acts of the bad. Countries like yours, Brazil and India will keep the world from curing itself of the disease. Even the New York Times has seen the light:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunity-vaccine.html
I still can't grasp how a clearly smart fellow like you can be so utterly heartless. Seems the US education system has at least one thing right: indoctrination of it's citizens to abide to capital. Capital punishment, capital efficiency, capital loyalty. After all, leading to the conclusion that human life is expendable, as, contrary to corporations, we don't live forever anyway.

Sad. Very sad.

 

[cyrano]

Cyrano, you are so far to the left that you've almost gone full circle back to the extreme right.

Thanks for the compliment!

 

[user 37518]

Thanks for the compliment!

You are welcome! BTW that bugs bunny avatar doesn't make justice, may I suggest something more refined? Che Guevara perhaps? a hammer and sickle?

 

[cyrano]

Sad. You still don't understand...

 

[user 37518]

Sad. You still don't understand...

No, sorry, I understand now, I mislabeled you as communist, but now you've made it clear in another post that you are in fact an Anarchist, I might have also been an Anarchist at some point, when I was 13.

 

[JohnRoberts]

If I accepted your pejorative characterizations as truth, I would be concerned that maybe I am a dumbass, but no....

Please try to keep your comments more civil, you can disagree with me without being insulting. Actually do more than just try.

JR

 

[cyrano]

I didn't insult you, John. But I'll refrain from posting anything if it's insulting to you.

 

[Squeaky]

I believe that pigeon-holing people generally does them a disservice. I mean, what does it mean to be an anarchist? Does it mean that you believe that we can all live together in harmony without laws? Like the Thelemites? "Fay ce que voudras" in the old French? Anyone like Rabelais?

 

[user 37518]

I mean, what does it mean to be an anarchist?

It means that you are a teenager and you are going through a "Sex Pistols" phase....

 

[scott2000]

Can't forget Black Flag

Rollins: In the Black Flag days, we had skinhead problems in the lower half of America. Florida, especially. One night in 1986, they mugged our soundman, kicked his head in and cut the lines to our PA. The cops came, shut the show down, and told us we were the problem and we had an hour to get over their county line. The skinheads were standing behind them, flipping us off.