The Vaccine

[scott2000]

Naturally, the report does not estimate the Covid treatment expenses that the programme has saved (monoclonal, dexa, pain relief etc etc), nor does it estimate how many (small) businesses in the UK it has saved.

Yeah. I guess they aren't updating that report anymore for whatever reason?

Interesting about the S antibody levels in relation to positive or negative N samples even though it isn't clear where the Delta variant plays into their charts. . It would be interesting to know what is deemed a protective level of S because the N positive sample group was killing it from the start. Quickly looking I've only seen references to negative vs positive S levels in relation to infection/protection, etc but nothing on what is considered adequate yet. But I've just started looking.

I mean 10000 plus S levels sure seems cool like iron man but, what minimum constitutes protection ?

 

[fallout]

There is no evidence for that statement

I guess your not looking then? The breakdown is basically 99% or greater for those under the age of 70 and that number sharply decreases for those over 70.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-recovery-overview
As for alternative treatments? Ivermectin for one.. seems to be just about as effective as the vaccines at reducing symptoms but of course government and big pharma won’t allow that.. No profit.

 

[ruffrecords]

I agree, the Botswana variant could be a problem just as things were starting to get better. All later variants tend to have more mutations because they are mutations of existing successful mutations. Variants that spread more easily obviously have more opportunity to mutate so they tend to create more new variants that may be more or less able to propagate and or kill people. The worst case scenario is if a new mutation is both more deadly and more infectious but, survival of the fittest dictates, that ones that are will be are likely to survive.

At the moment, nobody knows in what ways this variant is different *as far as infection and deadliness are concerned) and I am not sure why it has been singled out. I think it is important to rememeber that mutations are very common but most are benign. There are several thousand known Covid 19 variants.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Script]

'Minimum constituting protection' they don't know yet. But might have an idea after coming winter.

What I find way more disturbing is what some unvax'ed people are still waiting for... ...to catch an infection that might require hospitalization', only to be put on a waiting list ?


Another thing that I had long found a bit disturbing was why there wasn't a delta vaccine update. Found the answer the othe day : update might be better but not by much , and not enough to justify risk of tens, if not hundreds, of millions of stocked vaccine doses to be dumped. Said differently, they deem delta to be close enough to alpha for the current vaccine to still be highly effective.

Also, I read, Biontech / Pfizer announced some time ago already, that they can (and have test-proven that they can) update their vaccine within 4 weeks -- i.e. from initial genetic sequencing to rollout.

 

[scott2000]

What I find way more disturbing is what some unvax'ed people are still waiting for... ...to catch an infection that might require hospitalization', only to be put on a waiting list ?

Who knows. I'm married and have a son so it's easier for me through conditioning to not stress about others not falling in line with my thinking...lol

Said differently, they deem delta to be close enough to alpha for the current vaccine to still be highly effective

Sounds like a good thing.. Weird after hindsight but still good....?

 

[cyrano]

At the moment, nobody knows in what ways this variant is different *as far as infection and deadliness are concerned) and I am not sure why it has been singled out. I think it is important to rememeber that mutations are very common but most are benign. There are several thousand known Covid 19 variants.

It's more contagious than delta, even if there are no precise numbers yet. Deadliness remains to be seen.

As several (4? 6?) of the 30 mutations affect the mechanism that allows the virus to penetrate cells, that's expected.

I also expect some vaccines to offer no protections. But that's just based on a gut feeling and a few conversations with biologists. I also noticed some to be very careful with words...

 

[cyrano]

A pretty good summary, with lots of links:

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/202...rapidly-press-underplaying-downside-risk.html

 

[user 41968]

All Four Botswana “Nu” Variant Patients Were Fully Vaccinated

 

[cyrano]

The solution might just come from Cuba:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03470-x

 

[JohnRoberts]

It'd be nice for everyone to be forced to do something they don't want or need? That's crazy talk.. haha

I have an even better idea! How about add another column (or 2) how many reinfections/deaths for those who were previously infected with Covid. My guess is that number would be ridiculously low.. That's a number they don't want anyone knowing, that's for certain.

You mean reinfection deaths in Covid survivors?

Natural immunity seems to be the elephant in the room that nobody sees.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

Have we run out of Greek letters yet?

Every scary headline is about some new more infectious variant. Isn't that how viri compete and keep score over who is winning?

This sucker will keep spitting out new variants until the deaths fall below our news cycle attention span. Probably not the best time to lay off health workers because they declined vaccines (but when is the good time?). More covid pills and whatever treatments won't hurt.

JR

PS: I heard a news blip that migrants at the border would get Covid jabs before being sent to "remain in Mexico". I suspect that may have been in the recent negotiation between the two nation's leaders (whoever that is).

 

[fallout]

You mean reinfection deaths in Covid survivors?

Natural immunity seems to be the elephant in the room that nobody sees.

JR

Yes, exactly what I'm talking about. I'm curious what the reinfection rate is (jab or no jab).. It's obvious (at least to me) why they're keeping that quiet because I'm certain the number will be astonishingly low. I know quite a lot of people who had Covid at this point both vax'd and unvax'd and don't know a single person who has been reinfected. Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not saying it's not possible to be reinfected but the odds seem REALLY low.

 

[cyrano]

All Four Botswana “Nu” Variant Patients Were Fully Vaccinated

Do you have a link to the original document?

AFAICT, this hasn't been released by the Botswane Covid 19 Task Force. At least, it's not on the gov.bw site. Could be an oversight, but doesn't read like other releases from the same source.

The exact same jpeg only seems to circulate on anti-vaxxers sites. A bit unlikely coincidence, don't you think?

Besides, all the cases I came across, were unvaccinated travellers.

 

[fallout]

It does seem like the cases in Botswana were in the vaccinated. Is this shocking? Who cares who got it, hopefully the mutation is weaker than previous variants (as it should be)..

https://www.facebook.com/EchoBotswana/https://www.mmegi.bw/news/four-cases-of-the-new-covid-19-variant-recorded-in-botswana/newshttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-the-new-virus-variant-that-s-rocking-markets
All the above sources link to the same media doc you're referencing, FWIW. Not anti-vax sites by any means.

 

[Script]

Who knows. I'm married and have a son so it's easier for me through conditioning to not stress about others not falling in line with my thinking...lol

Know what you mean Two kids over here. Only two real limits: when actions lead to physical pain/ injury of others and when important things start to break -- and I don't mean scratch in wood flooring or car body paint, a broken sofa, or even an accidentally smashed TV -- self-punishment enough . Those are just things and not really that important after all and/or replaceable.

I found that kids, even when small, can be very understanding and rational at times -- and then the complete opposite of course. I guess we all retain some repurcussions of the latter even as adults -- some maybe more than others ?

Have been thinking about a domestic mask-wearing mandate though for any member (including myself) who hasn't brushed their teeth at least once within the last 24 hours... ; )

 

[cyrano]

It does seem like the cases in Botswana were in the vaccinated. Is this shocking? Who cares who got it, hopefully the mutation is weaker than previous variants (as it should be)..

https://www.facebook.com/EchoBotswana/https://www.mmegi.bw/news/four-cases-of-the-new-covid-19-variant-recorded-in-botswana/newshttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-the-new-virus-variant-that-s-rocking-markets
All the above sources link to the same media doc you're referencing, FWIW. Not anti-vax sites by any means.

The jpg seems to come from the Botswana govt official Twitter account. Looks legit.

When I looked, the jpg was only to be found on anti-vax sites. Mainstream press hadn't picked it up, yet.

However, the one local source, Botswana paper Mmegi Online, doesn't link the jpg at all and they debunk another lie, namely that it came from an AIDS patient. That lie evolved to "an undiagnosed AIDS patient" since I first noticed it.

There are serious reports to read if you're willing to look for them. Most cases of Omnicron come from unvaccinated people.

From what I found, travel restrictions seem too late, as the Omicron variant already has been found in South Africa, Botswana, Hong Kong, Israel, Italy, France, Germany, Belgium, the UK and a lot of countries haven't even started looking...

And since at least three of the 37 mutations affect the way it infects it's victims, it's to be expected to be more contagious. We'll have to see if there is effective protection in current vaccinations. Fortuantely, the reports I have seen 'till now, nobody is seriously ill, or needing to be hospitalised.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Is more contagious bad? After everybody gets it and has immunity, or not... this will be over.

JR

 

[Tubetec]

I think it could well turn out the approach we've taken regarding this virus has only served to prolong it . The political system here in Ireland is long overdue an enema , its full of impacted turds with vested interests .

 

[cyrano]

Is more contagious bad? After everybody gets it and has immunity, or not... this will be over.

JR

Obviously, it's not so good, but you always have to see about mortality. The good news is that until now, nobody died AFAIK, and nobody needed to be hospitalised.

So, yes, it could be the last wave.

 

[fallout]

I'll take more contagious but weaker. A bit like what the 'conspiracy theorists' have been saying would happen

But we'll see, too early to tell.. I'd imagine the 'super variant' will strike the US right before the mid-term elections in 2022.