The Vaccine

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Many German speaking countries have an unusually high aversion to vaccines. I understand this may be because of the much greater prevalence of alternative medicine amongst those people. Certainly in Switzerland for example, the vast majority of the Italian and French speaking population has been vaccinated wheres the proportion amongst German speaking is very low. Vaccination certainly works. In the UK, although infection rates are not much lower than in the rest of Europe, hospitalisation is a fraction of what is was in previous waves (just 5% of beds are Covid patients) and something like 95% of those in hospital with Covid are not vaccinated.

Cheers

Ian
 
Were seeing a 60/40 split vaxed/unvaxed in hospitalised cases in Ireland ,what that doesnt factor in is people who for whatever medical reasons cant get vaccinated . Also what were not figuring in is how the virus itself has changed and possibly become less lethal , were simply attributing the lower death rates to the vaccine itself which may not be a correct assumption .

Drilling down into the German speaking nations who have lower vax uptake rates , it may be an unfortunate side effect of the experiments that took place in the camps during WW2 . Were still fighting here in Ireland for the rights of the women and children who were experimented on with vaccines in mother and baby homes , who pays ,the church ,the state or the big pharma who was behind these tests and stood to make billions . Were all guinea pigs in this grand new experiment , vaxxed or not , surely any medical experiment or trial needs a control group or how do we know our arse from our elbow when the data comes in ? It seems one of the founding principles of scientific research has been brushed aside in the rush to vax .
 
If you are getting your "the (insert number) of the hospitalized etc are unvax'd" you probably aren't dealing in reality. I know it's hard to hear, but the news is a for profit monster getting paid by those sucking up the cents from the treasury for the very free vaccines they're fleecing you into paying for (indefinitely; see the 6mo expiry)

The FDA wants 55 years.... this has been a running experiment from the get.

All 2020 we saw none of the fallout we were uncertain and concerned could potentially come to fruition... how many years of not seeing this happen are you going to continue to behave as if we're facing a ruin problem with a human multiplicative aspect to it? We're not, wake tf up.
 
It is logical for cases to tick up with seasonal colder weather not unlike flu. I remain optimistic that the medical community will continue to get better at treating this. I am less optimistic about government resisting the temptation of increasing authoritarian control.

JR
 
Tubetec said:
Were seeing a 60/40 split vaxed/unvaxed in hospitalised cases in Ireland ,
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So 5% of the population(unvaxxed)=40% of hospitalizations? That's a strong correlation. It makes your unsupported attempts to knock down the vaccine look rather weak. Also: wouldn't the potential weakening of the virus affect all equally? And while some unvaxxed may be unvaxxed due to medical issues, many of the vaxxed have similar issues. In sheer numbers (considering it's 95% to 5%), it's almost certain that more vaxxed than unvaxxed have comorbidities and compromised immune systems. And yet: 5% unvaxxed=40% of hospitalizations.
 
Anecdotal, but from a UK respiratory intensivist who is intimately involved in patient care:

"Fundamentally though, for me, it comes down to this. I can’t think of a single case offhand of a person who was previously fit and healthy who has ended up needing intensive care after being fully vaccinated. It may not stop you from catching Covid. But it can save your life when you do."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...cinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin
 
Tubetec said:
x. Were all guinea pigs in this grand new experiment , vaxxed or not , surely any medical experiment or trial needs a control group or how do we know our arse from our elbow when the data comes in ? It seems one of the founding principles of scientific research has been brushed aside in the rush to vax .
Click to expand...
Control groups were used in all the clinical trials involving many thousands of people before the vaccines were approved. They were the guinea pigs but they chose to be. That's why it took nearly a year before any vaccines were approved. The only part of the process that was shortened was the official approval to use the vaccine given by government bodies. Fortunately someone in the UK took his finger out of his bum and sorted that out in 3 weeks instead of the 3 months it took the EU bureaucracy. Fortunately someone else also took their finger out and decided to pre-order vaccine, weeks before the EU finally got round to doing the same. Sound judgement in my book because even if the vaccine trials failed we can afford to throw away some money but we cannot afford to throw away lives.

Cheers

Ian
 
ruffrecords said:
Control groups were used in all the clinical trials involving many thousands of people before the vaccines were approved. They were the guinea pigs but they chose to be. That's why it took nearly a year before any vaccines were approved.
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yup. Operation Warp Speed brought in a vaccine in less than one year but there was a lot political posturing that it was rushed for political reasons so unsafe (yet the same people casting shade on the vaccine rolled up their sleeves for early jabs).
ruffrecords said:
The only part of the process that was shortened was the official approval to use the vaccine given by government bodies.
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most are operating under EUAs (emergency use authorizations). it will take years to get long term safety data.
ruffrecords said:
Fortunately someone in the UK took his finger out of his bum and sorted that out in 3 weeks instead of the 3 months it took the EU bureaucracy. Fortunately someone else also took their finger out and decided to pre-order vaccine, weeks before the EU finally got round to doing the same.
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The US placed huge orders for vaccines well before they were proved out. This was an expensive gamble that appears to have paid off.
ruffrecords said:
Sound judgement in my book because even if the vaccine trials failed we can afford to throw away some money but we cannot afford to throw away lives.

Cheers

Ian
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One thing the UK did that really impressed me was the judgement call to give twice as many people single jabs until supply could catch up enough to give everybody the two jab regimen.

JR

PS; At the risk of veering political I do not understand why the government can mandate 100% vaccination for government workers but doesn't jab migrants who freely come across our open southern border. What percentage of them are vaccinated?
 
As of 22 November 2021, 3,610,882 people had received the first dose of a vaccine, 3,544,750 had received their second dose and 236,359 had received a single dose, bringing the total of vaccines administered to 7,391,991.

Looks like its around a 90% overall vax rate , but on news broadcasts they typically mention 95% of eligable people having recieved their vaccines .
 
crazydoc said:
Apparently some people can't understand this. Following it to its logical conclusion, if everybody were vaccinated, then 100% of the hospitalizations would be the vaccinated, thereby proving that the vaccinations are worthless. :rolleyes:
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Not really. The proportion of the total population that is vaccinated is 90%+. Of the Covid cases that require hospitalisation less than 10% are vaccinated. Therefore NOT being vaccinated increases your chances of hospitalisation by ten fold.

Cheers

Ian
 
scott2000 said:
Where are those numbers?
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I was just going off the number Tubetec had previously stated--I see he clarified in response to your post. So while the percentages may not be exact, the point is unchanged.
 
As I previously said 60% of hospitalised cases here are in vaccinated people , 40% are in unvaxed . Maybe the situation in the UK is different to here , but surely not that different .

An analysis of UK data from the National Immunisation Management Service (NIMS) and the Coronavirus Clinical Information Network (CO-CIN),1 endorsed by the UK Scientific and Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE),2 shows that of 40 000 patients with covid-19 who were admitted to hospital between December 2020 and July 2021 a total of 33 496 (84%) had not been vaccinated. It found that 5198 (13%) of these patients had received their first vaccine and 1274 (3%) their second.

Apples and oranges in some respects , as the figures I quoted are the way things stand currently here.

this is the page I found the above quote ,
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2306
 
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Tubetec said:
pples and oranges in some respects , as the figures I quoted are the way things stand currently here.
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I know VA has the breakdown of vaccinated,partially vaccinated and unvaccinated on their site which is nice.
Looks like Washington state has some of this data too but leaves out the partially vaccinated in some of their data for whatever reason.

It's a little confusing how case numbers are figured. It seems there would be a bias towards more cases of unvaccinated showing up with policies in place that require proof of vaccination or negative test result (concerts,etc..). Obviously the vaccinated wouldn't be tested so how can that be an indicator if they have an infection? Maybe I'm not understanding this. Here's one hospital policy. Seems the chances are pretty good the vaccinated won't show up as a case?

The visitor restrictions require all inpatient visitors over the age of 12 and individuals over the age of 18 accompanying an adult to an appointment on a hospital campus to:
  • Show proof of full vaccination against COVID-19; OR
  • Provide proof of a negative COVID-19 test collected within the past three days
 
Stats can be easily manipulated. Vaccinated people can get just as sick as unvaccinated and wind up in the hospital and unvaccinated can be asymptomatic or have a mild case just like the vaccinated. Your chances of getting more than a moderate case hasn't change since post/pre vaccines. Most will not get very sick vax'd or unvaxed. Both still spread the virus and that's the bottom line. I'd argue that the vax'd are spreading it more since they have a false sense of protection and are not forced to get tested (work, concerts, etc). This has gotten beyond silly. Vaccinating children for Covid? Government mandates? Give me break. This isn't about Covid, it's about compliance and control.

"We believe" boosters "will likely" give you the highest level of protection yet. - Fauci on Booster shots

What a fraud.
 
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Regarding 'logical consequence'.

This does not fall under Bayes' theorem, does it.

"It's an undisputable fact that a vast majority of car accidents as a car driver or passenger happen to people who buckled up.

Whereas with unbelted drivers and passengers it's different or 'unclear' because some of them take the easy way out ?"
 
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