The Vaccine

[cyrano]

Probably a few instances of the inverse as well

People are free to change their minds.

Just don't come with bogus arguments, like "you still can get sick". No vaccination, or even any other treatment has a 100% success ratio.

Maybe we should stop treating cancer, as we haven't got a good treatment for that either?

 

[scott2000]

People are free to change their minds.

Just don't come with bogus arguments, like "you still can get sick". No vaccination, or even any other treatment has a 100% success ratio.

Maybe we should stop treating cancer, as we haven't got a good treatment for that either?

I was just saying for every story out there of people regretting not getting the vaccine, there are probably a number of stories of people regretting taking them, and of course maybe even dead people who can't change their minds included. Most likely on conspiracy theory sites though and the few stories I know of personally are kinda just weird and coincidental so whatever.
But even if true, it's a war so the benefits outweigh the risks or something like that.

 

[cyrano]

Of course there are. There's always the "one in a million" chance that you die from any treatment.

Even an innocent disease, like parvovirus B19, a very common children's disease can be dangerous. Most people get this in their infancy, usually resulting in life-long immunity. My niece caught it when she was in her twenties. She was unfortunate: the virus ended up in her spine, paralysing her from the neck down. She's been in a care facility ever since. That's a one in a billion chance...

 

[user 41968]

Italy Holds “March of the Vaccine Dead” to Commemorate those Who Died from The COVID-19 Vaccines

Hundreds of people in Parma, Italy attended the “March of the Vaccine Dead” last week to remember those people who died from the experimental COVID-19 vaccines.

Protesters were marching on the street with photos of their loved ones who were killed by the COVID-19 vaccines. It looks like hundreds were killed after vaccination, which is mandatory for working Italians.

More: Italy Holds "March of the Vaccine Dead" to Commemorate those Who Died from The COVID-19 Vaccines (VIDEO)

 

[JohnRoberts]

It is human nature to confuse correlation with causation.

vaccine risk website

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) confirmed an increased number of deaths reported after a COVID-19 vaccination. Between December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) received 12,313 reports of death among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.
===
Since more than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the USA, this data reflects a vaccination-death ratio of 0.0018%.

===
The CDC’s website says, ‘Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. This is because the U.S. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after a COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.

Furthermore, a review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines, says the CDC.

===
Specifically, a report to VAERS does not mean that a vaccine caused an adverse event. But VAERS can give CDC and FDA important information. If it looks as though a vaccine might be causing a problem, FDA and CDC will investigate further and take action if needed.

The risk of death from covid vaccination seems vanishingly low (0.0018%) yet different scare mongers overstate these risks for different personal reasons (media for ratings, politicians for votes, etc).

I remain optimistic but suspicious of our leadership, and opinion leaders. No Dr Fauci you are not the living embodiment of science.

JR

PS: Sometimes I feel like anti-vaxxers are following me around the WWW but the attraction to post this stuff here is more likely because of our many eyeballs. It is clearly too late to talk me out of getting jabbed.

 

[fallout]

"Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem."

Doesn't necessarily mean the vaccine WEREN'T the cause either and seeing how politicized the vaccines have become the powers that be would never admit if it caused any health issues. Again, it's a personal choice whether to get vaccinated but to ignore the VAERS data and overstate the safety is naive.

 

[JohnRoberts]

"Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem."

Doesn't necessarily mean the vaccine WEREN'T the cause either and seeing how politicized the vaccines have become the powers that be would never admit if it caused any health issues. Again, it's a personal choice whether to get vaccinated but to ignore the VAERS data and overstate the safety is naive.

I am not suggesting that we ignore it, I am just saying hold it in proper perspective.... 0.0018% seems pretty small for at risk populations. I am less enthusiastic about jabbing children and low risk populations but caveat, I AM NOT A DOCTOR.

I wish health officials would get this exercised (pun intended) about obesity and other self imposed risk factors.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

In a cohort of 6.4 million COVID-19 vaccinees and 4.6 million demographically similar unvaccinated persons, recipients of the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Janssen vaccines had lower non–COVID-19 mortality risk than did the unvaccinated comparison groups.

So covid vaccination makes you less likely to die from other causes. Or, of course, a confounding factor may be that the vaccine refusers are the kind of people that are less likely to take care of their health in general, and may have other sociological and psychological factors that make them more likely to die.

 

[fallout]

So covid vaccination makes you less likely to die from other causes.

You must be on the payroll..

The rest of the propaganda piece that you cite:

The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, the study was observational, and individual-level confounders that were not adjusted for might affect mortality risk, including baseline health status, underlying conditions, health care utilization, and socioeconomic status. Second, healthy vaccinee effects were found in all but the youngest age group. Such effects were also found in a cohort study conducted in a nursing home population, which reported substantially lower aRRs for 7-day mortality among vaccinated residents after dose 1 (0.34) and dose 2 (0.49) as compared with unvaccinated residents (5). Lower rates of non–COVID-19 mortality in vaccinated groups suggest that COVID-19 vaccinees are inherently healthier or engage in fewer risk behaviors (7,8); future analyses will address these issues. Third, although deaths associated with COVID-19 were excluded, causes of death were not assessed. It is possible that the algorithm used might have misclassified some deaths associated with COVID-19 because of lack of testing or because individual mortality reviews were not conducted. Finally, the findings might not be applicable to the general population. The VSD includes approximately 3% of the U.S. population, and is representative of the general population with regard to several demographic and socioeconomic characteristics (9). Other studies have already demonstrated the safety of COVID-19 vaccines authorized in the United States.

 

[JohnRoberts]

You must be on the payroll..

behave, be nicer...

a fair speculation that vaccine seekers may be more health conscious, except for the mind reading about "the kind of people". Why is everything a fight these days?

I am having trouble figuring out which bad science fiction movie we are living in (Idiocracy, Demolition man, 1984, etc.) ?

JR

PS: actually not really bad movies

 

[crazydoc]

You must be on the payroll..

The rest of the propaganda piece that you site:

The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, the study was observational, and individual-level confounders that were not adjusted for might affect mortality risk, including baseline health status, underlying conditions, health care utilization, and socioeconomic status. Second, healthy vaccinee effects were found in all but the youngest age group. Such effects were also found in a cohort study conducted in a nursing home population, which reported substantially lower aRRs for 7-day mortality among vaccinated residents after dose 1 (0.34) and dose 2 (0.49) as compared with unvaccinated residents (5). Lower rates of non–COVID-19 mortality in vaccinated groups suggest that COVID-19 vaccinees are inherently healthier or engage in fewer risk behaviors (7,8); future analyses will address these issues. Third, although deaths associated with COVID-19 were excluded, causes of death were not assessed. It is possible that the algorithm used might have misclassified some deaths associated with COVID-19 because of lack of testing or because individual mortality reviews were not conducted. Finally, the findings might not be applicable to the general population. The VSD includes approximately 3% of the U.S. population, and is representative of the general population with regard to several demographic and socioeconomic characteristics (9). Other studies have already demonstrated the safety of COVID-19 vaccines authorized in the United States.

As I said.

And the word is cite, not site.

 

[crazydoc]

except for the mind reading about "the kind of people".

See the bold type in the quote in my post above.

 

[fallout]

As I said.

And the word is cite, not site.

I see you labored over your response and the spelling police issued me a citation. You're so incredibly smart. Keep on peddling propaganda...

 

[JohnRoberts]

guys please stop trading personal insults there is lots of actual science we can talk about

JR

 

[crazydoc]

There have been no insults from me - only data and science. And I was just correcting someone's spelling in his insult to me, and any further response is really a waste of time.

 

[fallout]

science? Hey.. I heard there was a study that the vaccine kills people but there's a few limitations, half the participants were smokers and the other half ate a pound of bacon each morning but they all wore black socks. That's science?

 

[ruffrecords]

In a cohort of 6.4 million COVID-19 vaccinees and 4.6 million demographically similar unvaccinated persons, recipients of the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Janssen vaccines had lower non–COVID-19 mortality risk than did the unvaccinated comparison groups.

So covid vaccination makes you less likely to die from other causes. Or, of course, a confounding factor may be that the vaccine refusers are the kind of people that are less likely to take care of their health in general, and may have other sociological and psychological factors that make them more likely to die.

In other words it is a very complex situation where a large number of factors are in play. It is therefore unwise to making sweeping generalisations as to cause and effect. Exactly the same applies to global warming.

Cheers

Ian

 

[JohnRoberts]

There have been no insults from me - only data and science. And I was just correcting someone's spelling in his insult to me, and any further response is really a waste of time.

I trigger some people too...

JR

 

[cyrano]

Italy Holds “March of the Vaccine Dead” to Commemorate those Who Died from The COVID-19 Vaccines

So, twitter, again...

How come anti-vax sites were updated with the exact same text even before this tweet was published?

https://www.google.com/search?q="architects+for+social+housing"+italy
Answer: someone is throwing money at the subject. Search engines were poisoned before it was published anywhere. An example, residing on a SEO server farm in Thailand:

http://rntc2.vlcloud.net/drm/protec...rticle.php?tag=social-housing-architecture-uk
Look at the links at the end of the page. These point to a few of the thousands, even millions of other search-engine feeds. As these aren't all political propaganda, this is is part of a commercial server farm. Not a very good one, as it took less than ten minutes to find it. Usually, they're much harder to find.

The big question is: Who's footing the bill? And Why?

EDIT: This really is a moving target. In the hour or so I was looking at this, Google readjusted and dropped the anti-vax sites from their lead position in the search results. Some could see that as proof Google is "in" on the global conspiracy. I see it as coincidence. Google must have noticed the server farm and dropped them from their index.

 

[Matador]

Or, of course, a confounding factor may be that the vaccine refusers are the kind of people that are less likely to take care of their health in general, and may have other sociological and psychological factors that make them more likely to die.

This reminds me I just read of a new study that found a high correlation between Ivermectin use and COVID improvements, however limited to places with high prevalence of parasites. In other words, Ivermectin helps "treat" COVID via helping treat parasite infections (it's primary use), which are known to depress immune response. Among a control group of people from areas of low parasite prevalence, there was no correlation between Ivermectin use and COVID symptom improvements.