The Vaccine

[scott2000]

Natural immunity keeps coming up, but I notice nobody commented on the article I posted earlier comparing natural versus vaccine immunity.

crazydoc posted that study back in the beginning of November and there were a couple of comments if it's the same article being referred to.

 

[crazydoc]

It seems like the only hammers in the government tool kit are vaccines and masks. Natural immunity is hard for them to manage or take credit for.

JR

Let's don't jump to conclusions so fast:

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...stantial-ability-evade-natural-immunity-south
“In contrast to Beta and Delta, the Omicron variant of Sars-CoV-2 demonstrates substantial population-level evidence for evasion of immunity from prior infection,” they said in a paper released on Thursday that has not yet been peer reviewed.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Again focus on infection, not on deaths. If it only gives you a mild cold this is an improvement over delta IMO.

I saw one observation that Omnicon doesn't attack the lung function the way earlier variants do.

JR

 

[fallout]

“Omicron has not yet spread as fast as it would’ve otherwise done and as is happening in Europe. But it’s here now, and it’s spreading, and it’s going to increase. For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm.” -Dementia Joe

Sounds like a desperate attempt to ramp up fear.

I saw one observation that Omnicon doesn't attack the lung function the way earlier variants do.

That would be excellent news.

 

[cyrano]

The main number to watch, is how many people end up in ICU...

It is to be expected less vulnerable people will die, as most of these have died already.

Another thing to monitor is how many people with other problems will die because hospitals focus on Covid patients. And that's not an easy one to enumerate. Cancer patients, fi, don't have much time...

 

[JohnRoberts]

The main number to watch, is how many people end up in ICU...

Scott shared a nice graphic that showed ICU utilization per county... (no hospitals in my county). I still think deaths matter most and they have new medicines. Pfizers Covid pill got approved for emergency use in the UK, US emergency approval is expected soon.

It is to be expected less vulnerable people will die, as most of these have died already.

My neighbor (the druggist) jokes that almost everybody who died from any cause over the last year plus, was classified as a Covid death because the hospital got paid more money for Covid deaths.

Another thing to monitor is how many people with other problems will die because hospitals focus on Covid patients. And that's not an easy one to enumerate. Cancer patients, fi, don't have much time...

This is why the NY State governor shutting down elective surgery is problematic IMO.

Several hospital systems have abandoned vaccine mandates because they can't afford the lose the significant fraction of health care workers still resisting vaccines. I am not sure that they know something the public doesn't know. They don't seem to hold the medical doctor's "opinions" in as high regard as the public is expected to...

JR

 

[fallout]

https://www.reuters.com/world/refug...rugmakers-fear-lawsuits-documents-2021-12-16/

 

[JohnRoberts]

There is new vaccine advice steering patients away from J&J and toward Moderna, Pfizer, because of a blood clotting issue associated with J&J.

The cynic in me questions wether this is actually news, or the risk/benefit calculus has shifted with increasing supplies of the other vaccines. The wouldn't be the first time public advice was influenced by indirect supply/availability factors.

JR

 

[Matador]

…. Dr Fauci is a joke along with another 'supposed' dr…..
….even the lefty maskers in my family have had it and then here's Dr Fastball jumping the brownshirt shark…
…dementia joe.....
…This is why the NY State governor shutting down elective surgery is problematic IMO….

It's comforting to know that despite everything that's changed, Brewery's Razor is alive and well.

Brewery's Razor: The explanation based on the malice of Democrats is always the right one.

That's almost sig-worthy.

 

[cyrano]

Several hospital systems have abandoned vaccine mandates because they can't afford the lose the significant fraction of health care workers still resisting vaccines. I am not sure that they know something the public doesn't know. They don't seem to hold the medical doctor's "opinions" in as high regard as the public is expected to...

They understand how relative vaccines are, especially in this part of the trajectory.

Finally, the animal link is getting some attention: According to several scientists, Omicron could be a mutation that occurred in mice. Maybe not for the most important reason (spreading via birds?), but still. The omicron variant spreads faster, but nobody seems able to explain how isolated cases from people that didn't travel happened.

Meanwhile, Omicron infects faster than Delta in the human bronchus but with a less severe result:

https://www.med.hku.hk/en/news/press/20211215-omicron-sars-cov-2-infection

 

[JohnRoberts]

I have shared this tidbit before but the Spanish flu a century ago ended with a whimper (milder cases) not a roar..

Caveat: I am an incorrigible optimist.

JR

 

[fallout]

Yet Dementia Joe and Dr. Fauci insist on spreading fear and propaganda..

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-hospitalizations-in-omicron-wave-much-lower
Even left leaning outlets are catching on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/12/16/vaccines-fda-cdc-boosters-expert-panel/

 

[Script]

Which part of the Bloomberg article are you referring to ?

 

[john12ax7]

For those that are doing booster shots are you doing mix and match or the same one? Data suggests you should get mRNA booster if you did non mRNA the first time. But what about all mRNA, is it better or worse to mix and match Pfizer and Moderna? Seems logical that mix and match could be better as you would get different antibodies, but is there a downside? Maybe you are introducing the potential for complications.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Most of the studies done by booster manufacturers were for the booster using same vaccine as original. One small study using different boosters didn't reveal any obvious negative outcomes, besides the typical known side effects. While smaller booster doses result in smaller side effects. Moderna booster was given a small edge but only 50 people in the study and not peer reviewed so take it with a grain of salt. Lately the J&J vaccine has been falling out of favor due its infrequent clotting side effect.

My 3rd booster jab was Moderna, like first and second.... I am alive so far.

JR

 

[MicDaddy]

I still don't quite understand the compulsion to always make "perfection the enemy of the good". Flu shots are pretty effective at preventing sickness in the strains that are targeted. The problem is there are thousands of strains out there, and you can't inoculate against all of them.

Natural immunity keeps coming up, but I notice nobody commented on the article I posted earlier comparing natural versus vaccine immunity.

This is absolute bullshit with any due respect. How effective are they, the flu shots? (they're not very) ..duly noted you quote me and brought zero data about the effectiveness of your flu shot.
Because your article ignores reality bud

 

[Script]

For those that are doing booster shots are you doing mix and match or the same one?

In Japan, P and M are approved for booster so far and they said that there is a choice for individuals to receive Pfizer if they had experienced stronger side effects (malaise, fever) with Moderna for 1st and 2nd. Haven't read anything about the other way round though.

 

[Matador]

This is absolute bullshit with any due respect. How effective are they, the flu shots? (they're not very) ..duly noted you quote me and brought zero data about the effectiveness of your flu shot.
Because your article ignores reality bud

I don't do homework assignments.

Which part of the study was faulty, and in what way?

 

[MicDaddy]

I don't do homework assignments.

Which part of the study was faulty, and in what way?

Like you've said, dyor. Enjoy infinite boosters that work so great while reconciling reality.

 

[Tubetec]

Its looking more and more like an exercise in compliance and control , the virus itself evolves to suit its own agenda ,