The Vaccine

[scott2000]

https://academic.oup.com/clinchem/article/64/2/419/5608880

 

[JohnRoberts]

I wonder if there is a correlation between expressing conspiracy theories and fora turning into ghost towns?

Speaking for myself I did stop visiting one forum after my pushback against conspiracy theories was met with insults (does that make me a snowflake?).

Life is short and there are too many ways to waste time out there.

JR

 

[fallout]

So none of you wokesters have a problem with corporate America dictating health policies? I though you guys hated corporatism? Destroy small businesses with mandates and sell out public health because the big guys can't afford too many people taking off from work? No one can see that this isn't about public health and is only (and has only been) about money (and control)? Amazing..

I just read that the CDC says that the Delta variant is still the prominent variant in the US and not Omicron. That one was supposed to be deadly but now all that's needed is a 5 day quarantine for vax'd/unvax'd and no quarantine with just a face mask if your boosted? Any of these groups can get infected and pass on the virus just the same.

The flu, which basically nonexistent last year while Covid was running rampant, is suddenly making a comeback this year? Hmmmm.. I had my doubts about the stories mentioning that PCR tests couldn't differentiate between any strains of coronavirus and the flu. Now that new Covid tests are going to start being used and just like that the flu is back? Peculiar, to say the least.

 

[JohnRoberts]

So none of you wokesters have a problem with corporate America dictating health policies? I though you guys hated corporatism? Destroy small businesses with mandates and sell out public health because the big guys can't afford too many people taking off from work? No one can see that this isn't about public health and is only (and has only been) about money (and control)? Amazing..

I can't speak for the wokesters but american healthcare was corrupted by big insurance, before the ACA nuked it making it worse. Now big hospitals are also major factors buying up small practices. It is far from a free market with those who can seeking the most revenue.

I just read that the CDC says that the Delta variant is still the prominent variant in the US and not Omicron. That one was supposed to be deadly but now all that's needed is a 5 day quarantine for vax'd/unvax'd and no quarantine with just a face mask if your boosted? Any of these groups can get infected and pass on the virus just the same.

funny I just did a search and the CDC is saying that Omicron is dominant but trimmed their estimate down to only 58% of new cases (was higher fraction last week). These are what I call "brown" numbers because they were probably pulled out of somebody's butt.

The flu, which basically nonexistent last year while Covid was running rampant, is suddenly making a comeback this year? Hmmmm.. I had my doubts about the stories mentioning that PCR tests couldn't differentiate between any strains of coronavirus and the flu. Now that new Covid tests are going to start being used and just like that the flu is back? Peculiar, to say the least.

The shutdowns, widespread mask wearing, and hand washing impacted flu spread. No doubt many flu case were mislabeled as covid for the extra revenue.

The media is still focussed on reporting number of infections because that is a larger, scarier number than deaths. Keep the public scared so they stay glued to the news.

JR

PS: They claim that the reduced quarantine time was based on "science" but that science appears to be engineered to support their goal to reduce harming the economy even more than they have.

 

[scott2000]

The shutdowns, widespread mask wearing, and hand washing impacted flu spread

I was reading that it could be more related to covid taking over which is common among viruses. I forget the term. "Viral displacement"?

 

[Youngwhisk]

Speaking for myself I did stop visiting one forum after my pushback against conspiracy theories was met with insults (does that make me a snowflake?).

Life is short and there are too many ways to waste time out there.

JR

That one forum has basically had only one contributor in the last month or so. Apparently he wants a bigger audience and is now posting the same content here. I was wondering if the same exodus will occur here.

 

[crazydoc]

That one forum has basically had only one contributor in the last month or so. Apparently he wants a bigger audience and is now posting the same content here. I was wondering if the same exodus will occur here.

You can try to ignore the crazies, but it's sort of hard sometimes when the posts are so outlandish that they have no basis in reality. It does give some insight into the kind of "thinking" that's going on these days, and it can be entertaining on a dull day.

 

[fallout]

The shutdowns, widespread mask wearing, and hand washing impacted flu spread. No doubt many flu case were mislabeled as covid for the extra revenue.

My guess is that the PCR test inflated the number of cases more than you'd think. The PCR tests were never meant to be a test for Covid.

The media is still focussed on reporting number of infections because that is a larger, scarier number than deaths. Keep the public scared so they stay glued to the news.

100%

PS: They claim that the reduced quarantine time was based on "science" but that science appears to be engineered to support their goal to reduce harming the economy even more than they have.

Spot on. Scary that corporations can absolutely dictate health policies and the powers that be (CDC) sell out (supposed) public health for money. It was never about public health and the public was misled from the very beginning. It was VERY clear what group was effected most severely by Covid within the first few months. There was never a need for lock downs. The CDC is an absolute joke. The wokesters should be up in arms about this. This makes them look even more foolish.

 

[JohnRoberts]

That one forum has basically had only one contributor in the last month or so. Apparently he wants a bigger audience and is now posting the same content here. I was wondering if the same exodus will occur here.

That's life...

It is human nature to seek out confirmation for our personal world viewpoint. I don't quite understand the aggressive proselytizing of such extreme positions. It is not very convincing to anyone paying attention thoughtfully.

All are welcome here as long as they follow the rules dictating civility and mutual respect.

This website is an attractive target because of our robust membership that keeps growing every day, along with multiple would be spammers thwarted daily.

JR

 

[hodad]

It was VERY clear what group was effected most severely by Covid within the first few months. There was never a need for lock downs.

I may be misinterpreting you here--what I hear when I see this argument (and you're by no means the only one putting it forth) is an extreme (and extremely shortsighted) type of selfishness. "I'm not likely to die from COVID, therefore there's no need for lockdowns." Of course, that does not in the slightest take into account the knock-on effect of cases in young people--it's not as if you can somehow separate old and young completely, and sort out all those with comorbidities. Take it a step further, and you'll see that the increase in cases due to a lack of lockdown does in fact start to shut down normal life in ways similar to a lockdown--just with more death, more suffering, more folks dealing with the long-term ill effects of severe covid infections. NYC in the early days of the pandemic was a good indicator of where we were headed--overwhelmed healthcare system, people dying while waiting for treatment. The negative effects to the economy, to businesses small and large, to the social structure would have been far more devastating than the inconvenience of a lockdown.

Right in the preamble of the US Constitution it mentions providing for the common defense and promoting the general welfare. In practice, that means that sometimes certain folks may be inconvenienced for the sake of the greater good. Unfortunately, a lot of folks who like to consider themselves "real Americans" seem to have lost touch with this concept.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I may be misinterpreting you here--what I hear when I see this argument (and you're by no means the only one putting it forth) is an extreme (and extremely shortsighted) type of selfishness. "I'm not likely to die from COVID, therefore there's no need for lockdowns."

mind reading is never a good basis for arguments

Of course, that does not in the slightest take into account the knock-on effect of cases in young people--it's not as if you can somehow separate old and young completely, and sort out all those with comorbidities. Take it a step further, and you'll see that the increase in cases due to a lack of lockdown does in fact start to shut down normal life in ways similar to a lockdown--just with more death, more suffering, more folks dealing with the long-term ill effects of severe covid infections.

results are mixed between (blue) states that adopted severe lockdowns and less restrictive (red state) approaches. FL and NY are a popular comparison because they have similar populations while the latitude difference makes it an imperfect apples to apples comparison.

NYC in the early days of the pandemic was a good indicator of where we were headed--overwhelmed healthcare system, people dying while waiting for treatment. The negative effects to the economy, to businesses small and large, to the social structure would have been far more devastating than the inconvenience of a lockdown.

NY state is the poster boy for mismanagement... In case this isn't obvious hospitals have been sharp pencil (profit based) operations for years. Excess ICU capacity is an overhead cost that hospital operators work to minimize. Ask those hospital operators how staffing looks with vaccine mandates, or airlines, or... etc.

I have paid some attention to NYC because I grew up in NJ just outside of NYC. Yes Covid hit them hard because NYC is an international destination/transit point. I vaguely recall the Trump administration repositioning a hospital ship there to provide extra hospital capacity and even set up temporary health clinics in the Javits convention center. As I recall Gov Cuomo did not use either to good effect, while forcing nursing homes to house covid positive patients in among the high risk residents no doubt causing unnecessary deaths.

FL alternately paid attention to their high risk populations.

President Biden has recently punted responsibility for managing Covid to the states and said governors just need to ask him for what they need. As I recall Gov De Santis has been asking the federal government for more monoclonal antibody treatments for months. The Biden administration cut back the allocation FL was getting (in Sept). This medicine is in short supply, I do not see what demand looks like at the Federal level. Fl and several other southern states have been early adopters of the monoclonal antibodies, because they save lives. President Biden's claim for governors to just ask, rings hollow.

Right in the preamble of the US Constitution it mentions providing for the common defense and promoting the general welfare. In practice, that means that sometimes certain folks may be inconvenienced for the sake of the greater good. Unfortunately, a lot of folks who like to consider themselves "real Americans" seem to have lost touch with this concept.

I love it when you wrap yourself in the constitution to make targeted accusations of selfishness. Nice try, but keep reading that fine historical document and roadmap for governance.

JR

PS; Ironically perhaps when President Trump instituted travel restrictions to slow Covid spread he was accused of racism. Now when President Biden imposes travel restrictions we hear crickets. The facts don't seem to matter as much a promoting a partisan agenda.

 

[hodad]

mind reading is never a good basis for arguments

I have, however, been reading fallout's posts for some time now. All we have is words and deeds, John. And there aren't a whole lot of deeds to go by on this virtual forum.

Speaking of mind reading, I've noticed you doing quite a bit of it in your ever-more-personal attacks on me. I'm sorry I've been triggering you so much lately.

 

[user 41968]

That one forum has basically had only one contributor in the last month or so. Apparently he wants a bigger audience and is now posting the same content here. I was wondering if the same exodus will occur here.

Nice try but wrong. Facts matter.
Traffic is as good as its ever been and the Covid thread there has about twice the views of the two threads here combined.
I wasn't aware of that statistic until the statement above was made and I went to look.
So more bullsh*t debunked.
I came here because this thread lacked balance.

I get a lot of private thanks for my Covid posts and just recently signed up a new member who didn't have nice things to say about this place and its cliques. I don't need the low quality referral traffic this site produces.

Haven't posted many updates recently other than Covid because I've been doing new product development and busy filling orders.

The brotherhood of the needle is a little too quick to scream "conspiracy theory" particularly considering the number of times those who've screamed it have been consistently proven wrong. Last year's "conspiracy theory" is this year's reluctantly-accepted fact. Claiming "conspiracy theory" is a coping mechanism for those who can't grasp the evil or a propaganda tool of those advancing the evil.

And since you brought it up JR I have to admit I lost all respect for you as I would a battered wife or girlfriend going back to the husband or boyfriend (Dr. Fauci) who is abusing them. You admitted Fauci lied to you but you took the vaccine anyway. I still respect your technical judgment and accomplishments but I think your judgment in this area is very poor. You can nuke my membership here for being honest if you chose to.

 

[hodad]

FL alternately paid attention to their high risk populations.

Let's see...Florida cooked the books on Covid numbers, & fired the statistician responsible for reporting the numbers when she called attention to the problem. When she tried to continue her work after being fired (since the state wasn't doing the job properly), they came after her legally.
DeSantis opposed mask mandates in local school districts and threatened them with financial penalties.
DeSantis has taken an antivaxx stance (gotta get in good with that crowd if you want to run for president) while touting monoclonal antibodies for all the antivaxxers who get Covid. Monoclonal antibodies cost the govt. $2100 per dose, while a Covid vax costs 1% of that. And I thought Republicans were fiscal conservatives.

I can't speak to NY's mismanagement or lack thereof (though the hospital ships were never all that practical to begin with), but I think it's pretty clear that DeSantis & FL are not shining examples of how to handle a pandemic.

 

[Matador]

I was wondering if the same exodus will occur here.

I doubt any of the noise will cause an exodus: I'm guessing the loudest will rent seek elsewhere when people stop engaging them. Discourse is impossible with true believers, but it is interesting to see what the talking points are in any case.

 

[JohnRoberts]

And since you brought it up JR I have to admit I lost all respect for you as I would a battered wife or girlfriend going back to the husband or boyfriend (Dr. Fauci) who is abusing them. You admitted Fauci lied to you but you took the vaccine anyway. I still respect your technical judgment and accomplishments but I think your judgment in this area is very poor. You can nuke my membership here for being honest if you chose to.

I am not sure what I brought up (Rhetorical)?

I have been called worse than a battered wife, but please stop (really STOP).

You are welcome here just like anyone else but please tone down your personal criticism of me and other forum members.

Being honest is not against the rules here, in fact it is encouraged. It would be better if we all had the same truth.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

I have, however, been reading fallout's posts for some time now. All we have is words and deeds, John. And there aren't a whole lot of deeds to go by on this virtual forum.

Speaking of mind reading, I've noticed you doing quite a bit of it in your ever-more-personal attacks on me. I'm sorry I've been triggering you so much lately.

Cute, I see what you did there... Don't take my corrections as personal attacks.

Let's see...Florida cooked the books on Covid numbers, & fired the statistician responsible for reporting the numbers when she called attention to the problem. When she tried to continue her work after being fired (since the state wasn't doing the job properly), they came after her legally.

She was fired for insubordination and refusing to cooperate with her supervisors.

Covid numbers have always been a little dicey, the specific complaint with her was how patients from out of state were counted. If FL counts them and their home states count them they get double counted, she included them making FL numbers appear roughly 10% higher.

No acknowledgment about Cuomo overtly misrepresenting his numbers wrt nursing home deaths?

DeSantis opposed mask mandates in local school districts and threatened them with financial penalties.

I fear that school children are the big losers here... They are generally a low risk group. Seeing facial expressions is pretty useful for childhood development and socialization.

DeSantis has taken an antivaxx stance (gotta get in good with that crowd if you want to run for president)

That perhaps explains why he is under constant attack from the left, a preemptive strike.

while touting monoclonal antibodies for all the antivaxxers who get Covid. Monoclonal antibodies cost the govt. $2100 per dose, while a Covid vax costs 1% of that. And I thought Republicans were fiscal conservatives.

The government does not have their own money, but thank you for worrying about taxpayer dollars. Using that same calculus should we deny obese covid patients hospitalization because it would have been cheaper for them to eat less? Is that selfish?

There is very likely a supply issue for that drug and I think FL has approached the drug maker directly to source more supplies. It is not very pretty to watch resources based on red/blue politics.

I can't speak to NY's mismanagement or lack thereof (though the hospital ships were never all that practical to begin with),

A hospital bed on a ship is better than no hospital bed, and surely better than sending covid positive patients into nursing homes. Besides the Clinic set up in the Javits center, there was also some healthcare tents set up in one of the city parks. I don't recall Gov Cuomo fully taking advantage of those added resources.

President Trump also offered support to CA another state that didn't vote for him. I recall Gov Newsome praising then President Trump's support in Apr 2020.

but I think it's pretty clear that DeSantis & FL are not shining examples of how to handle a pandemic.

I have seen favorable comparisons but this covid party isn't over yet. Soon I hope (Feb?).

More than 33,500 New Yorkers have moved to Florida between September 2020 and March 2021, according to the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles in Aug '21. They voted with their feet.

JR

 

[fallout]

I may be misinterpreting you here--what I hear when I see this argument (and you're by no means the only one putting it forth) is an extreme (and extremely shortsighted) type of selfishness.

Selfishness? Please look inward.

I wish everyone a healthy and happy new year!

 

[MicDaddy]

A neighbor couple recently traveled with their young son to Dubai. Their son wore a mask throughout a 9 hour flight with zero problem.
All these complaints about kids wearing masks likely have more to do with the parents' objections than the kids'. And likely many of the kids who object are simply mimicking the bad attitudes of their parents.

Do you even hear yourself? "they abused the child for 9 hours with no complaint" Happy child abusing
"the kid wanted me to touch them" -some perv somewhere saying the same shit

media all across the globe are capitulating... do you read any financial news? the jig is up
you LARPers are gonna be left holding the cronyvirus bag, you get zero sympathy from me when you finally accept you've been scammed

 

[MicDaddy]

Delta Air lines asks the CDC to reduce the quarantine for the infected from 10 days to 5 days and days later the CDC complies?

Paying bail-outs with public health? Suckers.

I heard on the radio today that the flu is making a comeback this year.. True story

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/21/del...akthrough-covid-citing-workforce-impact-.html

they're all capitulating
get your popcorn
not too late to switch sides (with the help of some gaslighting) to save face everyone

"maybe we shouldn't be counting all these fiat cases that we drove with mandates that are inducing panic cases numbers in places like the northeast when we told you Florida would all be dead 2 years consecutive and it didn't happen and the places with the mandates are all currently (seasonally) doing worse... gee how fun" casedemic is about to be over for election season

..flu never left us (scapegoated into cronyvirus deaths) see CDC's FluView and ask how many of the SARS-CoV-2 death certificates ASLO had a FLU diagnoses on it? i'll wait

..after you reconcile all the flu they told you that disappeared, ask do they test everyone for flu and when you accept that they HAVEN'T been ask why? and could it be possible that someone with covid also had the flu, but you didn't treat the flu and they died would that be negligence? weird...

did anyone ever follow up with the dead soldiers they dug up for Walter Reed to resurrect and recreate the Spanish flu they conveniently forget to tell anyone?