The Vaccine

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MicDaddy said:
is this what "shut it down for 2 weeks to flatten the curve without much rebuttal 2020" was all about?
i shut down businesses for 3 months, didn't take PPP or unemployment i sat and waited and watched
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Mitigation measures apparently did partially flatten the curve, but it's been a losing battle as it still has a positive slope, and people have gotten tired of it, especially with the differing vaccination opinions coming into play.

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Luckily, omicron has come along to help beat this down to acceptable levels, and barring future variants that are more deadly or escape current vaccinations, mitigation mandates can be dropped as almost everyone will have some degree of protective immunity and we can live with it.

Of course, new additions to the population will have to gain immunity, so there may be compulsory pediatric vaccination like there is for many other infectious diseases. :)
 
There is a zero reason for compulsory shots for children. They're not dying dude. They're largely not affected at all.

If it's not deadly for most did mitigation do anything if most weren't going to die? Why not specific mitigation for those susceptible? Or are you going to offer you're still unsure which cohort that is (clue in on UW Med Seattle... did they all die while protesting in May/June 2020?)

Stop with the optically evil desire of misapplying an inappropriate treatment (yes, treatment at best) for children that are not affected.

It's getting into abusive behavior as the masks have been.
 
MicDaddy said:
There is a zero reason for compulsory shots for children. They're not dying dude. They're largely not affected at all.
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Again, even if we accept this as true, it doesn't mean it's true for everyone in close contact with those children (aka. their parents, their teachers, their caregivers, etc). There was a study in Canada that showed that children <5 showed a higher prevalence for causing secondary infections in households, because they weren't capable of sequestering themselves during asymptomatic timeframes (in other words, duh).

It's odd that you continually bring up a "but their not dying man" argument, but reject that same argument when applied to the vaccine itself.
 
crazydoc said:
Mitigation measures apparently did partially flatten the curve, but it's been a losing battle as it still has a positive slope, and people have gotten tired of it, especially with the differing vaccination opinions coming into play.

View attachment 90271
Luckily, omicron has come along to help beat this down to acceptable levels, and barring future variants that are more deadly or escape current vaccinations, mitigation mandates can be dropped as almost everyone will have some degree of protective immunity and we can live with it.

Of course, new additions to the population will have to gain immunity, so there may be compulsory pediatric vaccination like there is for many other infectious diseases. :)
Click to expand...

You really should consider the simple fact that the "two week to bend the curve," which the vast majority supported, was intended to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Except in a couple of hot spots (NYC) this level of infection never occurred. By May it was apparent that it wouldn't occur here, yet the BS continued (and still continues in many places). The facts do not support that these "mitigations" prevented deaths better than protecting those known to be at risk.

And the almighty case rate is not important without looking at demographics of DEATHS from cases. How many people have died FROM Omicron? As was predicted by many in 2020, this virus was most likely to do its thing and mutate into a milder form where it would become endemic, just like OC43, the likely cause of the 1899-90 pandemic, and which is now one of several viruses that cause the common cold.

Rather than focusing on important things like who really is at risk and why, how to treat the disease early to prevent severe cases/deaths, and understanding the origin so as to prevent or mitigate future similar outbreaks, we wasted money on experimental shots, stimulus checks, and continued failed and destructive policies for two years. We've ruined the economy, set young children back in social development and education, normalized fear-mongering and divisiveness, and generally made several large backwards strides as a whole. There's nothing to proud about here.
 
Matador said:
Again, even if we accept this as true, it doesn't mean it's true for everyone in close contact with those children (aka. their parents, their teachers, their caregivers, etc). There was a study in Canada that showed that children <5 showed a higher prevalence for causing secondary infections in households, because they weren't capable of sequestering themselves during asymptomatic timeframes (in other words, duh).

It's odd that you continually bring up a "but their not dying man" argument, but reject that same argument when applied to the vaccine itself.
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first off we haven't ruled out "but 'they're' not dying man" as relates to the vaccines or have you already? I lost relatives that were vaccinated, what happened? what about those that got sick vax'd + boosted?

I'm not observing the children getting sick, or dying, at all... are you observing children dying from COVID?

most people don't die smoking crack, you don't see me out here advocating for that, are you? same application
 
Matador said:
Again, even if we accept this as true, it doesn't mean it's true for everyone in close contact with those children (aka. their parents, their teachers, their caregivers, etc).
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The latest data seems to indicate vaccines aren't doing much to prevent children from getting and transmitting the virus. The "protect grandma" argument seems based more on emotion than reason.
 
crazydoc said:
Yes we have, but crackpots continue to believe it.
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you have no way to draw any conclusions as regards to what long term immune implications are at play chasing variants with flavor of the month booster
you can ignore the people dying that were vaccinated as ruling out exhaustively that the vaccines had no play in their death or any downside but that's your negligence, i'll play risk management
 
MicDaddy said:
you have no way to draw any conclusions as regards to what long term immune implications are at play chasing variants with flavor of the month booster
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Neither do you, so everybody should just STFU on this subject.
MicDaddy said:
you can ignore the people dying that were vaccinated as ruling out exhaustively that the vaccines had no play in their death or any downside but that's your negligence, i'll play risk management
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I'll play risk management too - vaccination even lowers mortality from all causes:

"people who received COVID-19 vaccines in the United States had a lower death rate than those who didn’t, even if you don’t count COVID deaths.”

  • Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine recipients had a mortality rate of 4.2 deaths per 1,000 vaccinated people per year after first dose, and 3.5 deaths after second dose.
    • The unvaccinated comparison group had a mortality rate of 11.1 deaths per 1,000 people per year.
  • Moderna COVID-19 vaccine recipients had 3.7 deaths per 1,000 people per year after the first dose, and 3.4 deaths after the second dose.
    • The unvaccinated comparison group had a mortality rate of 11.1 deaths per 1,000 people per year.
  • Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine recipients had 8.4 deaths per 1,000 people per year.
    • The unvaccinated comparison group had a mortality rate of 14.7 deaths per 1,000 people per year.

https://www.kp-scalresearch.org/new...k-of-death-among-covid-19-vaccine-recipients/
 
https://www.kp-scalresearch.org/new...k-of-death-among-covid-19-vaccine-recipients/
...Just reading for 5 minutes..

(4). A cohort study of 19,625 nursing home residents found that those who received an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) had lower all-cause mortality than did unvaccinated residents

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X21006836?via=ihub
"Among the unvaccinated, unadjusted event rates for venous thromboembolism and pulmonary embolism were similar to those observed in the vaccinated. Unlike the vaccinated, no occurrences of Bell’s Palsy, acute myocardial infarction, or ischemic stroke were observed among the unvaccinated during the 15-day period"

"we found lower 7-day mortality rates in vaccinated versus unvaccinated adults; however, it is unlikely that the vaccine protected against mortality due to SARS-CoV-2 in such a short time-period, and this may represent residual confounding"

Why would they even include this as a bullet?
 
scott2000 said:
https://www.kp-scalresearch.org/new...k-of-death-among-covid-19-vaccine-recipients/
...Just reading for 5 minutes..

(4). A cohort study of 19,625 nursing home residents found that those who received an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) had lower all-cause mortality than did unvaccinated residents

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X21006836?via=ihub
"Among the unvaccinated, unadjusted event rates for venous thromboembolism and pulmonary embolism were similar to those observed in the vaccinated. Unlike the vaccinated, no occurrences of Bell’s Palsy, acute myocardial infarction, or ischemic stroke were observed among the unvaccinated during the 15-day period"

"we found lower 7-day mortality rates in vaccinated versus unvaccinated adults; however, it is unlikely that the vaccine protected against mortality due to SARS-CoV-2 in such a short time-period, and this may represent residual confounding"

Why would they even include this as a bullet?
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Not sure what your question relates to, but I assume they felt that the vaccine wouldn't have an effect on covid mortality in such a short period (7 days) after vaccination, so lower mortality was unrelated to covid.

Also, as far as the vaccine related rates for MI, stroke and Bell's Palsey, each of these were one case out of 8000+ subjects - unlikely to be statistically significant, especially when compared to the unvaccinated.
 
crazydoc said:
Not sure what your question relates to, but I assume they felt that the vaccine wouldn't have an effect on covid mortality in such a short period (7 days) after vaccination, so lower mortality was unrelated to covid.

Also, as far as the vaccine related rates for MI, stroke and Bell's Palsey, each of these were one case out of 8000+ subjects - unlikely to be statistically significant, especially when compared to the unvaccinated.
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My question was related to the fact that, in the study you linked, they referenced the study I also linked but, their take on it was limited to

"A cohort study of 19,625 nursing home residents found that those who received an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) had lower all-cause mortality than did unvaccinated residents"

Just confusing because, it reads a bit more to me.

So when I read, blah blah blah and can't understand the methods and calculations behind all the person years, etc, it would be nice to know that, when I can actually understand something, it falls in line with what they are saying apart from cherry picking . Hopefully the blah blah blah is a bit different than that example. Hope is a good thing so I'm down.
 
You mean the cohort size and whether it's representative ?

"The cohort consisted of 6.4 million COVID-19 vaccinees and 4.6 million unvaccinated persons with similar characteristics as the comparison groups"

"Among 3.5 million Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine recipients, 9.2% were aged 12–17 years, 69.4% were aged 18–64 years [... and so forth]

That's a massive sample.
 
Everybody take a breath.... It looks like the forum members posting here survived the pandemic of 2019. We'll have time for recriminations after we emerge from the morass.

I expect 2022 will be am interesting year.

JR
 
re: long term / short term side effects..

A whistleblower leaked an internal DOD database showing illnesses skyrocketing after the Covid shot (cancers, miscarriages, heart problems, etc..). The story is that the baseline stats preceding this spike were incorrectly reported? You're a fool if you believe that. Funny that it coincides with the conspiratorial VAERS database.
 
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