Thermionic Culture Phoenix master compressor; buy or build?

[dagosto]

I found a compressor masterin thermionic culture phoenix at a price of 2500 euros.
I saw that inside the circuit is not very complicated to build.
What do you recommend to build or buy?
I would like a response both to the cost both for the quality.
In your opinion how much costruiretale compressor?
Is there anyone who has built?
thanks

Joseph

 

[ruairioflaherty]

  This is why I come here less and less. 

This is a currently in production piece.  There very fact that you heard about it and desire it is because of the work the designer and company put into their product.  Cloning this circuit is just ripping it off.

Edit - I should add that this is bad for the forum and bad for DIY in general.  If this is tolerated or encouraged it will continue to damage the reputation of this place.

 

[soundsactive]

I concur. build/clone older pieces that are not in production. respect the designers, many who give back to the community. though thereis a grey area of things that have come back on the market, like pultecs and such.

you might mention the diy idea to TC, I hear they are great oeople and might help you out and sell you just a board, who knows?

 

[dagosto]

I'm sorry to have violated the spirit of the forum but my post I wanted an objective opinion and not meant to harm the manufacturers who work on their projects.
I want it to say that many manufacturers in turn copy the designs of others and make a lot of money.
I do not think she has taken money to anyone thought to provide a circuit having a compressor currently in production.
My question was:
And 'right to charge a compressor that has 4 valves and a few pot Euro 5000?
this cost is justified by the fact that if we were to build it we would accomplish the same result as having saved a lot of money?
I apologize to all

 

[volker]

The Phoenix is as far as I'm aware a modified Altec 436. So just take it from there and adapt to your needs. Also, take a look at this thread.

 

[dagosto]

thanks for the suggestion;
However, I wanted to ask if anyone has built a different type mu Phoenix with the side chain that has the same quality.
If someone sells a kit that sounds good I'm willing to buy it.
Another problem is the transformer, Sowter to find them?

thanks

 

[pucho812]

buy a u-33 from old world audio, you will not be disappointed.

 

[Andy Peters]

Another problem is the transformer, Sowter to find them?

Maybe that's the reason why the product costs what it does?

Go price a custom-wound transformer, including minimum order quantities, and then come back to us.

-a

 

[okgb]

You seem to be doing a " research " so that'll help , no kits here , just check the white market
maybe find one to rent if you haven't used one , hire someone to design one
someone may respond to your post , people often don't need what they want [ I'm a good example ]
Try different devices
settle on one you like
buy / mod / design / build a device ............
I've never used one of those so can't help you

 

[SSLtech]

This place has become like the 'megaupload/'piratebay' of electronic designs.

"Has anyone bought the new Katy Perry CD?- Can they send a copy to me?"

If you've looked inside this unit and they aren't complicated to build, why do they cost a lot? -Because they're costly to design and produce.  If they were truly CHEAP, there'd be copies everywhere by now. There aren't, really.

I don't know what skills you have that I don't, but I can't look at a transformer and say "that's cheap". -How expensive does a Peerless S-217-D "look" compared to a UTC A-20?

 

[sahib]

.............
What do you recommend to build or buy?
.............

Buy it.

 

[gemini86]

If it's currently available, buy it. You're likely to find a good used one somewhere for less than new. If it's unobtainable, or the collectors (read: hoarders) are driving the prices up, build it. Please don't come here and ask somebody else to do all the leg work so you can reap the benefits.

 

[pucho812]

This place has become like the 'megaupload/'piratebay' of electronic designs.

I concur.

 

[lassoharp]

Thermionic Culture Phoenix master compressor; buy or build?

Well,  neither -  I would suggest listening to one first.  Find a gear broker who will allow an audition.

If the assertion of it being a 436 type unit is correct, then look at practical specs from their literature and see if it will serve your purposes well.  I'd start with attack time.  A stock 436 isn't fast enough for a lot of transients you may need them to catch on program material.  Enough reading around this forum tells me that you can't increase the attack time much past the original without creating an unstable amp.  We assume they are not selling you an unstable amp.  So that spec should be a clue as to how far away from the 436 they've gone.

I don't know where pirating a pirate lands you but I'd guess that TC has spent some research hours adding a new twist to the original.  If you think the specs of the original or "EMI" version will suit your needs, I'd suggest just building one of those.  I mean, you may end up hating both designs, but the original is cheaper for DIY and less politically inflammatory. 

 

[JayDubrek]

I've never understood why folk would spend mega bucks on a piece of gear without trying it out... I mean you wouldn't buy a car without a test drive would you? I personally like the Pheonix- it's several giant steps away from the Altec 436 and a little closer to Vic's VK1... The Altec is an easy PTP build (or DripElectronics produce an expensive PCB with curvy traces!), relatively inexpensive components, and there's plenty of documentation around- why not use this as a starting point and learn/experiment - I think that is far more in the spirit of this place...
Jay

 

[ruairioflaherty]

The responses here give me hope.

 

[okgb]

I mentioned renting one and  for the contemplation of purchasing commercial products even ,
it's the antidote  truth serum against buying into all the hype , true or exaggerated  .
there's allot of great tools these days and many as good as each other for the the job, so
not likely that this unit is going make or break your business , or the difference in price .

 

[abechap024]

Yes, its bad mojo to rip off a companies designs that are still in production. Have you thought about different options? Im sure the sound your chasing could be had by a number of other vari-mu compressors. A nice simple one that is open source would be the original PRR vari-mu. Really simple and sounds great.

 

[r2d2]

This place has become like the 'megaupload/'piratebay' of electronic designs..........

...seem so.......
(Fortunately...)

"Has anyone bought the new Katy Perry CD?- Can they send a copy to me?"

"similar" ...but not properly the same thing.....

.............aren't complicated to build, why do they cost a lot? -
Because they're costly to design and produce.  If they were truly CHEAP.....

found a thread in another forum about how much money the pro audio distributors  put in their pockets
and seem that it is the true  reason why the most pro audio devices have a high price ,
(about 35->60% over...)
only for  "moving" packages .....

m.h. 2 cents

ps
until the next chinese "clones" invasion,
....golden age , alctron, etc......

 

[lassoharp]

If they were truly CHEAP.....

Seems like some relevant commentary got truncated . . .


Perhaps with a lot of work (= personal time $$$) a company can get a product into the higher profit margin area but I wouldn't say it's easy, and certainly not the norm for smaller production # boutique gear.  Even something as dirt simple as guitar amps don't generate the profits that some think they do.  Even when you're doing your own wood and metal work you may only make 200-300 per amp when you factor in everything.  Amp sells for 1.5 to 2K so you might only sell one or two a month.    Earning 10 to 20 bucks a day (and for how many hours labor?) ain't exactly getting rich.


1176 & 1178 were listing at around $550 or so in the UREI catalog around 89-90 just before they went out of production (presumably due to lack of sales and belief that market was heading in different direction).  Seems like everyone and their brother suddenly wanted 1176s in the ADAT era.  Vintage prices got stupid.  Tons of man hours were devoted to cloning by the emerging DIY crowd.  Putnam's sons put in a lot of research hours bringing it back into production.  If sales had stayed steady and timed out better, one wonders what the current true market price would be for those had UREI not discontinued them.  650 750 ea?  Of course UREI sold tons of other gear too - more than the current UA and to a different clientele.  There's really no way for small builders to play ball like bigger builders.  So, when you build an 1176 clone it seems ez - almost like assembling a jigsaw puzzle.  What you're not paying for is all the years spent getting a clone kit down to an affordable level by the DIY community.  It's paid for some how.  For something like a Phoenix you're at ground zero. = untold man hours of research and decoding, testing etc. to get it right.  At some point you have to look at the numbers.  Probably have to count all your labor as "free" and look at only parts cost to be able to say "Yeah, it's much cheaper to build!!!" . . . . but is it?