TL Audio 5013 ivory mods

[mOBiTh]

Hi guys

Been lurking on this forum for a little while now and am completely chuffed I've found it as it's completely inspired me to get my scope and soldering iron out once more and start trying to build stuff, so thanks to you all for that!

I've had a fair amount of experience building audio kits and stuff over the years but my ed background is acoustics and dsp so the most complex analogue circuit I've designed from scratch to date is an active crossover! I've got a couple of bigger projects I really want to attempt but they both involve valves which I'm still learning about so will talk about them later...

In the mean time thought I'd ask whether anyone knows anything about or has ever tried to mod a TL Audio 5013 Ivory?

I just got hold of one for pennies so thought it might be fun to undress it and start cutting...

It seems people seem to have relatively bad things to say about tlaudio stuff without being overly specific. By the sounds of it they're built to a price and not a very cheap price is the US? I've seen this unit go for $999 which is a fair amount of cash for a potentially bland sounding box.

Are their actual circuit designs poor or is it the components they're using that let them down compared to other designs? Would swapping opamps/tubes/capacitors likely make a difference?

So where do you guys recommend I start? Should I take it apart and take some photos and identify some of the more important components and see what you think? Anyone seen a schematic?

Or am I completely wasting my time?!! I know there are far better things to be modifying but I wanna get my hands dirty on something I have to hand and can afford to destroy!

:

Any help/advice greatly appreciated!

Cheers guys

Matt

 

[lolo-m]

Schemo is needed here !!!

Without schematics, nothing's possible...

Or maybe good photos to see the components used in the box... But components are really less important than design IMO.

 

[mOBiTh]

Ok cool.

I've no idea if I can get hold of one or not though. Will start hunting.

Pics and stuff to follow later in the week!!

Cheers

 

[Kingston]

I've seen this unit go for $999 which is a fair amount of cash for a potentially bland sounding box.

No it's not if it's got that vintage front panel look with a window so you can see the tube "warmth", and hey, you fell for that too. I would not be surprised it if had a back light. Rest assured the tube is only there for a show and all your audio passes safely through standard opamps like NE5532.

 

[1954U1]

Yes the valves are somewhat lonely there.
Lots of TL074s, NE5532s at outs.

5013_Schematics.pdf
and
5013-2_Iss_1_Schematics.pdf

 

[mOBiTh]

@kingston: :

 

[radiance]

You asked for it and there it is...how cool 

Thanks 1954U1 !

 

[mOBiTh]

cheers 1954U1 very helpful! this place is just awesome...

yep something of a TL074 frenzy. is it worth me upgrading the op-amps if they're in the signal path?

 

[jackies]

Very cool to see the schematic!
Now, seeing how it's brimming with opamps, calling it a "tube eq" sounds like somewhat an overstatement..
Surely, you can try swapping the opamps and see what happens, won't take too much time, especially if they are socketed..

 

[mOBiTh]

that's possibly a silly question i just asked but i haven't been reading much on op-amp swapping which i'll now go away and do!

i guess the plan would be to work out what's in the signal path (which i can't do at the moment cos a) my printer is broken and b) well i might not be able to anyway) and then hack out the tl074s from one channel and replace them with sockets and start to experiment. i'm in a good position to a/b before/after at least, with two channels...

any thoughts/tactics on this before i do it greatly appreciated!

would be interested to know what people think of the tube side of the circuit. it looks rather insubstantial to say the least but i'm no expert. are they just being used as simple (overdrivable?) gain stages?  i'm guessing ecc83 tubes are cheap and noisy?

 

[mOBiTh]

Now, seeing how it's brimming with opamps, calling it a "tube eq" sounds like somewhat an overstatement..

no kidding!

 

[mOBiTh]

Hi guys, has anyone actually tried swapping TL074 for TLE2074s? They seem to be about £3 each in the uk which seems doable.

[quote author=TI]
The TLE207x series of JFET-input operational amplifiers more than double the bandwidth and triple the slew rate of the TL07x and TL08x families of BiFET operational amplifiers. Texas Instruments Excalibur process yields a typical noise floor of 11.6 nV/ Hz\ ensured maximum, offering immediate improvement in noise-sensitive circuits designed using the TL07x. The TLE207x also has wider supply voltage rails, increasing the dynamic signal range for BiFET circuits to ±19 V. On-chip zener trimming of offset voltage yields precision grades for greater accuracy in dc-coupled applications. The TLE207x are pin-compatible with lower performance BiFET operational amplifiers for ease in improving performance in existing designs.
[/quote]

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tle2074.html

They have a improved slew rate, bandwidth and SNR over TL074.

What difference might a faster slew rate make on an EQ circuit? Would it necessarily be desirable?

Obviously lower noise would be no bad thing. Would the increased bandwidth make things smoother or are we way too far out of the audio spectrum to make any difference anyway?

Thanks!!

 

[Snatchman]

Hi guys, has anyone actually tried swapping TL074 for TLE2074s? They seem to be about £3 each in the uk which seems doable.

[quote author=TI]
The TLE207x series of JFET-input operational amplifiers more than double the bandwidth and triple the slew rate of the TL07x and TL08x families of BiFET operational amplifiers. Texas Instruments Excalibur process yields a typical noise floor of 11.6 nV/ Hz\ ensured maximum, offering immediate improvement in noise-sensitive circuits designed using the TL07x. The TLE207x also has wider supply voltage rails, increasing the dynamic signal range for BiFET circuits to ±19 V. On-chip zener trimming of offset voltage yields precision grades for greater accuracy in dc-coupled applications. The TLE207x are pin-compatible with lower performance BiFET operational amplifiers for ease in improving performance in existing designs.

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tle2074.html

They have a improved slew rate, bandwidth and SNR over TL074.

What difference might a faster slew rate make on an EQ circuit? Would it necessarily be desirable?

Obviously lower noise would be no bad thing. Would the increased bandwidth make things smoother or are we way too far out of the audio spectrum to make any difference anyway?

Thanks!!
[/quote] I wanna hear the opinions on this myself..!... ;D

 

[1954U1]

I wanna hear the opinions on this myself..!... ;D

Yes I'm curious too, do it!  ;D

I was planning to do the same replacement thing on my M3 tl-audio "tubetracker" minimixer,
but got annoyed by the fact that all the M3's opamps are non-socketed..
so I thought "bad sign", and gave up.

 

[1954U1]

other files:

5013_Test_Spec.pdf
5013_Manual.pdf
5013_Mk-2_Manual.pdf

 

[Michael Tibes]

I have some Indigo 2011 EQs and they are the only tube equipment I have which passes audio immediately after it's turned on - even before the tubes are heated up. I haven't taken the time to figure out, what the tubes actually do in there and how the unit might sound totally without them...

Does the 5013 behave alike?

Nevertheless it's interesting if some opamp swapping does do the TLA stuff something good. It has always been somewhat 'okish', but never really good. Improving it might recycle some rackfillers  ;D

Michael

 

[mOBiTh]

Yes I'm curious too, do it!  ;D

I was planning to do the same replacement thing on my M3 tl-audio "tubetracker" minimixer,
but got annoyed by the fact that all the M3's opamps are non-socketed..
so I thought "bad sign", and gave up.

Yeah I fully expect it to be a pain in the arse!

I'm also wondering if it will still pass audio if i pull the tubes out?!

Sadly I've got to go to Paris now so this is gonna have to wait a couple of weeks... Update in due course innit

And cheers for all the docs!  8)