Truely flat response DIY monitors?

[miszt]

lots of nice speakers on there thanks!

although the more I see, the more complicated it gets to make a decision lol but looks like there is lots of useful info there

 

[Michael Tibes]

nice info thanks! the finish on the speakers, from what I can tell in the pics, looks very nice, is that pre-laminated melamine type wood, or something else?

Do you think using an external crossover is a better option than simply letting my DAW do the work? it seems like I would have more control, and more importantly, more accuracy and options, if I use a DAW to filter the output to the sub - I want to use the DAW to find the perfect crossover point, and then build the simplest analog low-pass filter I can once I've worked out the extact crossover point digitally

The material is called 'MDF' in german, maybe someone can help out translating it? I basically filling, priming and spray painting with black shining colour cans which were on sale somewhere. It turned out relatively good for  being done in a rush and less ideal circumstances, but I guess the pic is just crappy enough to not show the weak spots. I'd try something different next time which should be better diyable, I learned that this way can look really awesome if done in a proper environment, like a cabin e.t.c.

Using the DAW or another computer for correction and crossover seems tempting, but one main concern for me here is latency. I use Nuendo and Cubase and rely on direct monitoring, which rules out any DSP from my DAW during recordings. Putting another computer in line would also add latency, so a no go here.  People I work with can be very sensitive about any latency while recording...

The simplest analog filter might not be steep enough if you want to go that route? This obviously totally depends on the chassis.

I can not recommend this magazine Hobby Hifi enough, I really also find the speaker tests very interesting. They are the only 'independent' and comparable source of information I have on speakers, I can normally not really make sense out of the manufacturers specs - they are always awesome...
There are a lot of affordable speakers with great specs out there. And at least the test diagrams should make sense in any language ;-)

Michael

 

[miszt]

nice info thanks! the finish on the speakers, from what I can tell in the pics, looks very nice, is that pre-laminated melamine type wood, or something else?

Do you think using an external crossover is a better option than simply letting my DAW do the work? it seems like I would have more control, and more importantly, more accuracy and options, if I use a DAW to filter the output to the sub - I want to use the DAW to find the perfect crossover point, and then build the simplest analog low-pass filter I can once I've worked out the extact crossover point digitally

The material is called 'MDF' in german, maybe someone can help out translating it? I basically filling, priming and spray painting with black shining colour cans which were on sale somewhere. It turned out relatively good for  being done in a rush and less ideal circumstances, but I guess the pic is just crappy enough to not show the weak spots. I'd try something different next time which should be better diyable, I learned that this way can look really awesome if done in a proper environment, like a cabin e.t.c.

Using the DAW or another computer for correction and crossover seems tempting, but one main concern for me here is latency. I use Nuendo and Cubase and rely on direct monitoring, which rules out any DSP from my DAW during recordings. Putting another computer in line would also add latency, so a no go here.  People I work with can be very sensitive about any latency while recording...

The simplest analog filter might not be steep enough if you want to go that route? This obviously totally depends on the chassis.

I can not recommend this magazine Hobby Hifi enough, I really also find the speaker tests very interesting. They are the only 'independent' and comparable source of information I have on speakers, I can normally not really make sense out of the manufacturers specs - they are always awesome...
There are a lot of affordable speakers with great specs out there. And at least the test diagrams should make sense in any language ;-)

Michael

thanks for the info, yes I know MDF, we call it the same thing

my plan with using the DAW to function as a crossover is purely a temporary and experimental solution, to find the right crossover points, which i can then use to design the filter (yeah from what I've read you are a right, a simple 1st order filter is probably not the solution I'll need for this; but we'll see when i get to that point)


I've completely given up on referring to manufacturer specs for anything other than a rough idea of the product lol much prefer to take the opinions of people using things in the real world and weigh them up

I'm having trouble finding an English version of Hobby Hifi, do you know if there is one?

 

[Matt Nolan]

The material is called 'MDF' in german, maybe someone can help out translating it?

Medium Density Fibreboard.

 

[iprovlek]

I was planning do this too...

And find good choice!

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/Eikona_2_MLTL.pdf

I heard first version of this speaker and this is the most deatail speaker that I heard ever!

It is full range speakers in MLTL version go very low!

But can be done like nearfield speaker!

 

[iprovlek]

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/products/diy-plans/

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/shop/

And here are the price of it....

I hear this version of it http://diyaudioprojects.com/Drivers/JX92S/

I have B&W 800 serie speakers but this little full range jordan speaker is more detail than my B&W!

In  MLTL  way building can be a beast,this slim enclosure goes to -3dB point of 27Hz!

 

[miszt]

that's pretty impressive for such a small driver, I wonder if there are any compromises here? a single driver providing all the detail from 27hz upto (I presume) 20khz is sounds like something special...definitely need to read up more on this, thanks for the link

 

[Michael Tibes]

I'm having trouble finding an English version of Hobby Hifi, do you know if there is one?

I believe unfortunately it doesn't exist.

Michael

 

[tmuikku]

that's pretty impressive for such a small driver, I wonder if there are any compromises here? a single driver providing all the detail from 27hz upto (I presume) 20khz is sounds like something special...definitely need to read up more on this, thanks for the link

i've had some js92x in DIY MLTL speakers in living room for ten years. very low sensitivity results a lame party speaker. very good with candle evenings with red wine though point source like a horn, but doesn't have dynamics like a horn i think.

if you can treat the room and position speakers and listening position it sounds very good. i haven't measured the response or anything. certainly detailed sound for the price. no crossover needed so good phase and time response. depth and stereo detail. best ive heard, but i havent been in any audiofool or pro studio environment so nothing to compare except yamaha ns1000m speakers which are also very good cheap detail, better dynamics i haven't actually mixed on either speakers so carry on.

 

[Moby]

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/products/diy-plans/

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/shop/

And here are the price of it....

I hear this version of it http://diyaudioprojects.com/Drivers/JX92S/

I have B&W 800 serie speakers but this little full range jordan speaker is more detail than my B&W!

In  MLTL  way building can be a beast,this slim enclosure goes to -3dB point of 27Hz!

As you can see from the data sheet you can't find off-axis measurement. Why? Because it's the weak point of every FR speaker. People often missunderstand this concept like the "crossower-less". No, crossover is included but acoustical one.  To cut a long story short, it's a good speaker if you listen it on axis. Hot spot is extremelly narrow and few cm  head movement will result as 6-12 loss in range above few khz. Maybe adding a ribbon tweeter is a solution... just my 2c

 

[iprovlek]

I heard this Jordan JX92S with this ribbons from Aurum cantus!

And it was amazing!

http://www.aurumcantus.com/aurumcantus-tweeter/index_tweeter.htm


This ribbons can be good choice!

 

[Michael Tibes]

Inspired by this thread I was browsing the net and found the classic ATC / Quested middomes: http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/professional/drive-units/studio-drive-units/.
Also: http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/atc-40-c.asp  and http://studio-hifi.com/images/ATC75-150S_JeffBagby.pdf
Did anyone ever use these in their DIY Monitors? A classic 'Quested-like' system doesn't seem too far away with these available. I'd have to dig deeper to find the tweeter, it might have been the Audax TW034XP with a custom faceplate?  I could also image a substitute.
I remember there were different woofers in different systems, I'd probably substitute with something 'modern' then anyway.

Michael

 

[miszt]

Inspired by this thread I was browsing the net and found the classic ATC / Quested middomes: http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/professional/drive-units/studio-drive-units/.
Also: http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/atc-40-c.asp  and http://studio-hifi.com/images/ATC75-150S_JeffBagby.pdf
Did anyone ever use these in their DIY Monitors? A classic 'Quested-like' system doesn't seem too far away with these available. I'd have to dig deeper to find the tweeter, it might have been the Audax TW034XP with a custom faceplate?  I could also image a substitute.
I remember there were different woofers in different systems, I'd probably substitute with something 'modern' then anyway.

Michael

that SM75-150S sounds very interesting...big shame its not available to buy anywhere although maybe if a few of us put in an order they might be persuaded (doubt I'd be looking at building the 2/3 way monitors for at least 6months tho)

there is a thread about the model here incase you are interested: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?242503-Full-Review-of-ATC-SM75-150S-Midrange-Driver

has a fair few other suggestions, and lots of comments