varying internet speeds; someone explain....

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emrr

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
8,633
Location
NC, USA
I've started taking a variety of snapshots at the same time of day for various connection methods.  A few things make no sense to me.  I repeated a few tests to be sure of the large differences in upload.  Why would phone tethered wifi connection be faster, but phone wifi be slow? 


                                                  down          up
wifi                      12.25M 1M
wifi                      15.25M 1M
phone tether, wifi 16M   12.75M
phone tether, wifi 13.25M 10.75M
phone tether, LTE 14.75M 12.25M
phone wifi                      6.25M        1M
phone LTE              12.75M 9M
 
Hi, I followed you here,

Tether is you are using your phone as a router, right?

Probably has to do with the quality of the connection, maybe when you tested your phone your wifi signal was significantly worse than when you tested it as a tether, usually happens, wifi of most phones are weaker than laptops, so at a certain distance of your router you have better speed at the laptop than the phone. I remember the first time I came across an iPhone in my house, I have perfectly good signal on my macbook, and no signal at all in the iPhone, now they are closer but still weaker. When you use your phone as a router you are sitting right next to the notebook, and with your phone on the same desk or in your pocket, less than a meter away, the wifi signal won't be limiting the connection.

Usually speed tests are done connected directly to the modem, so you only account for the modem/connection speed, then if you have troubles with wifi, speed or timing, you find it later analyzing the wifi network, and you don't get confused by numbers, as when you measure the noise of a complete system you don't know where it's coming from so that info isn't useful to get it better, only to know where you are standing.

I can imagine why the phone LTE upload speeds are much faster than the wired service, the protocol it's a more modern design, and now days the interaction with the internet is much more giving than it was few years back, when all the house services standards were designed, now days makes more sense to have upload speeds closer to download speeds, it didn't before since we just uploaded a few pictures and SD videos 10 minutes max (stupid rule of youtube back then). Now day any video we film in our phones, not even a good camera, is full HD and could be half an hour of we talking or a live concert of a friend, uploading that or sending it to the guy playing takes a fair amount of time. Modern service are being designed to be more symmetrical, I still believe we always download more than upload, for the exception of broadcasting, or people who uses a connection at the office only for his youtube channel, since now are people day working on that.

Phones seems to be more compatible with that more modern way of using the web, I didn't tested my phone connection in a while, but I'm lucky if I get full  HSDPA service.

Right now, 3am here are my numbers:
                                Ping                                      Download                                  Upload
phone wifi:      70 ms                                  16.6 Mbps                                2.9 Mbps
phone H            232 ms                              4.1 Mbps                                    1.1 Mbps
PC wired            25 ms                                12.5 Mbps                                  2.3 Mbps

All this with al my tabs and apps opened so I could squeeze a little bit more but I think its fine. The phone over wifi could be marking higher than wired but I think it's because smaller package are used and a peak as high as 100Mbps on the computer was shown at the start of the test. Ping are pretty useful in some cases, like Skype talks or online games, not at all when watching a video or downloading big files, also as a different way of measurement was used by the phone maybe the server used was closer. In daytime I would expect lower marks but I use the most of it about this time so, who cares. HSDPA looks bit better than 3G which max is 3.5Mbps but still not that grater in my case, your LTE shows much better performance. I never get EDGE connection anymore since I have dual sim on my phone so when only 2G available I don't have internet unless I change the sim profile, maybe better not to scratch my head trying to use that anyway...

I still should stick to my house server, in your case if you don't need the internet when you are not home probably not so much, I don't know about ping on your service, but probably better than mine. Still in my case, if it were just me I probably could keep only my phone service which is much cheaper than the house service, that's about one third, about 5USD+IVA(1.35USD)  for the phone, IVA comes  back later since it's from a company, about 20USD for the house connection, we could discuss the conversion rates I used but they are good for a reference, not official rate but isn't the official rate what makes everything else equal, if you want to buy something. As I said my roommate service doesn't work at all so we keep it, still would be cheaper to pay him an extra service for his phone than paying my half of the other but, isn't that expensive anyway so I still use both.

That's long enough, I didn't notice...

JS
 
No sympathy here. Your worst numbers look like my best numbers over an all-wire connection.

It does look like your in-phone data rate follows different rules than your phone supporting external devices. I use a $29 dumb-phone so I don't know, but I think basic cell-phone plans support "unlimited data" as poorly as possible, probably throttled.

Maybe it is just foking Time-Warner Cable, but my actual data-rate varies a lot with time of day. (Hence more late-night postings from me.)
 
I live in same geographical area as emrr should that be a factor.  I can say for sure that my internet has been ultra wonky lately.  I'm on AT&T and should be getting around 15Mbps.  When it's acting up it can be as poor as 1/3-1/2Mbps.  It does not seem to follow peak useage times.  Only once was there something tangible to blame it on - following the Ferguson verdict that evening for about 3-4 hours the net was swamped to a crawl . . . at least that seems to be the case (multiple friends reported the same).

My observation of the declining performance has been that it has been gradual, maybe over several months, and that when it peaked the bad performance seemed clustered like something had gotten out of hand. 

The up and down behavior may have been a maintenance issue.  When it's on it's on speed wise and relatively error free.  When it gets erratic it's pretty bad and I will constantly lose connection and have to reset the modem.

That all the providers have the simultaneous job of figuring out ways to give you less for more cost makes me wonder too.
 
I keep getting offers from my provider  [ Cablevision ] to "get faster speeds for only X-amount more per month" . I'd be willing to bet that they throttle down on purpose so that customers go for the extra expense.
 
I think they acknowledge throttling lower tier plans. 

Yes, phone as router in applicable cases versus laptop over wifi, along with internal phone results. 

To be clear, I did these tests back to back, the most confusing twice in a row with similar results.  The upload differences really make no sense.    Compare specifically wifi, phone tether wifi, and phone. 
 
Doesn't seem possible the phone tether wifi could be going through the wifi.
How are you measuring the speeds?
 
I live in same geographical area as emrr should that be a factor.  I can say for sure that my internet has been ultra wonky lately.  I'm on AT&T and should be getting around 15Mbps.  When it's acting up it can be as poor as 1/3-1/2Mbps.  It does not seem to follow peak useage times.  Only once was there something tangible to blame it on - following the Ferguson verdict that evening for about 3-4 hours the net was swamped to a crawl . . . at least that seems to be the case (multiple friends reported the same).

My observation of the declining performance has been that it has been gradual, maybe over several months, and that when it peaked the bad performance seemed clustered like something had gotten out of hand. 

The up and down behavior may have been a maintenance issue.  When it's on it's on speed wise and relatively error free.  When it gets erratic it's pretty bad and I will constantly lose connection and have to reset the modem.

That all the providers have the simultaneous job of figuring out ways to give you less for more cost makes me wonder too.

I've been going through this kind of thing for years. Had service calls many time, reran cat-5 through the whole house, finally they found it was a problem out on the pole. Since then it's been good. So keep complaining because it could be an erratically problematic part - or you need the right service person who can figure it out. I reran the wiring in the house because they were reading errors but didn't know why.

 
I've been going through this kind of thing for years. Had service calls many time, reran cat-5 through the whole house, finally they found it was a problem out on the pole. Since then it's been good. So keep complaining because it could be an erratically problematic part - or you need the right service person who can figure it out. I reran the wiring in the house because they were reading errors but didn't know why.

Good point.  I was using Time Warner before AT&T and had an issue with a corroded connection on the pole which they fixed.

I still wonder of what is being schemed and perhaps tested as the possible Comcast merger gathers steam.  Probably be a real dog fight there.
 
Ookla Speedtest on phone and in browser. 

I was talking to my Phone Co. friend about this today.  Several thoughts:

Phone provider may route tethered data differently.
Cable provider may route phone versus laptop differently.
In measuring customer speed in the field, you might be measuring a data rate to a mid-point only, and it not be reflective of the full path. 

He thinks the only way to really know is to measure a known data size upload and download several different ways.  I guess you could manage that manually with an upload/download to/from your own server space. 

I'll look at this again later.....
 
> upload differences really make no sense.

And for most of us, make NO difference.

Browsing is 1% up and 99% down.

emailing big attachments can take seconds, but are mostly limited by email system attachment limits and the few huge files you really want to email.

Off-site backup plans will strain "residential" upload limits. But the backup providers know that, and pace the uploader to spread-out over hours or days.

Residential upload limits are traditionally imposed to prevent public servers on home connections. Of course they are also discouraged by floating IP numbers and by fine print in the ToS.
 
Sure, but it's a consideration for us here.  88.2/24 audio mixes going out to mastering houses, and graphic design work out to clients and print houses.  Usually time sensitive, (can we have it yesterday?

I know, pay more for more, but I'm with you, pay a lot more for not much improvement likely. 
 
We had no choice here (midwest us) but to get a business router and account then just built our own servers and thus cloud which definitely made a difference. It wasn't all that hard either. Now its  real easy to have files go from video to audio editing back to client for approval then the final touches then back out. Before... well it took awhile.  Streaming is best ive ever seen, be it through phone, laptop, pc, tablet etc...  worth every penny imo.
 
I can make this discussion even more interesting... technology is one thing 3g/lte/fibre etc, but there is also more to the story.


...Operators can prioritize traffic. Means that business subscriptions are prioritized during high traffic hours versus consumer lines.
 
Not as much a business vs consumer use of bandwidth the tension in the news seems to be between companies selling high bandwidth streams of content  like TV, or movies. The buzz word "net neutrality" gets embraced by all sides and the government is injecting itself wanting to apply old telephone system regulations (I suspect revenue from the pure voice phone systems are falling). 

I don't trust the government as far as I can throw them, and business is already making noises about pulling back investment if the government hinders their ability to monetize those investments. Interesting times.

JR
 
joaquins said:
Still in my case, if it were just me I probably could keep only my phone service which is much cheaper than the house service, that's about one third, about 5USD+IVA(1.35USD)  for the phone, IVA comes  back later since it's from a company, about 20USD for the house connection,

Wow, my PERFORMANCE package will Bell Canada affords me a 6.0MBPS download rate and costs me $70.00 per month.

That's in a bundle with Phone and TV, so if it was internet on it's own add another $20 or so.

It appears we are getting royally ripped off in Canada. (BIG surprise)

Mark
 
> PERFORMANCE package will Bell Canada affords me a 6.0MBPS download rate and costs me $70.00 per month. That's in a bundle with Phone and TV, so if it was internet on it's own add another $20 or so. It appears we are getting royally ripped off in Canada.

$70/month for phone, TV, and innernet?

I'm paying $160, with-out phone. (Turns out with/without phone makes very little difference, there's a federal subsidy for basic phone; but for other reasons we decided to get off of Time-Warner phone.)

The bill is complicated.

Starter TV -- $11
Standard TV -- $59
Variety Pass -- $9
HD Pass ------ $5
The Guide(?)-- $3
HD set top box -- $7

Standard Internet -- $53
Modem lease -- $6

tax/fee TV -- $2
tax/fee internet -- $5


Today's Tim-Warner advertised rates (you don't really get these prices):

Ultimate 50Mbps Upload up to 5Mbps    $ 64 99 per month
Extreme 30Mbps Upload up to 5Mbps    $ 54 99 per month
Turbo 20Mbps Upload up to 2Mbps    $ 44 99 per month
Standard 15Mbps Upload up to 1Mbps    $ 34 99 per month (but really $53+$6)
Basic 6Mbps Upload up to 1Mbps    $ 29 99 per month
Everyday Low Price 2Mbps Upload up to 1Mbps    $ 14 99 per month

WiFi not included until you pay $54+ (I own my own router)

Standard+ includes "Free access to TWC WiFi® Hotspots" but---
"Showing 0 locations near {me}
"There are no WiFi Hotspots to display in this area"

SpeedTest numbers: ping 40mS Down 15.8Mbps Up 1.11Mbps (5%-11% better than spec)
That's to an in-Maine server. To San Jose CA, ping is 108mS; other numbers close.

The $6/mo modem lease is getting annoying. The class-action suit fizzled. I'd buy my own, but their short-list of "approved" modems sucks, and we've had so much troubles that I'm not keen on using any un-approved gear. Also--- the list of approved modems changed since last year--- do they want me to get a new modem every time they change their kick-back deal? Anyway, I pay until I *return* it, and the nearest office is a long haul. (Shipping makes it too easy to say "never got it" or "not the modem we gave you".)
 
Everyday Low Price 2Mbps Upload up to 1Mbps    $ 14 99 per month

Apparently due to AT & T's competing . . . or cahooting.  TWs low ball plan used to be 19.99/mo Road Runner Lite.  AT&T came on hard with their 14.99/mo equivalent - they still bombard me with snail mail.  They also uped the ante on length of term. TW offered their 19.99/mo plan for year at a time then bumped it up to 30/mo.  You had to call and renegotiate for the starter rate.

The $6/mo modem lease is getting annoying. The class-action suit fizzled. I'd buy my own, but their short-list of "approved" modems sucks, and we've had so much troubles that I'm not keen on using any unapproved gear

I haven't looked at TWs alternate's list.  AT&Ts does include the very universal and wallet friendly model by Motorola (can't recall #).  They could be found all over ebay for 8-15 buck last time I checked.  This was just plain modem - no router.

 
It seems my service is quite cheap compared to your options, I missed to say it has wifi included and they don't charge extra for it. The router sucks, wouldn't cover properly a 50m^2 apartment but still...

I still get ripped in other aspects of daily life, not at all in service or rent compared to other places.

The government implemented a plan to give every single kid in school a netbook, many of them got one at this moment but there are some of them who can't use it since they don't even have electricity on their houses...  :eek:

PRR, is there any chances this could get better for you over the next few years or it's just how it is and you won't have any noticeable improvement ?

JS
 
JohnRoberts said:
Not as much a business vs consumer use of bandwidth the tension in the news seems to be between companies selling high bandwidth streams of content  like TV, or movies. The buzz word "net neutrality" gets embraced by all sides and the government is injecting itself wanting to apply old telephone system regulations (I suspect revenue from the pure voice phone systems are falling). 

I don't trust the government as far as I can throw them, and business is already making noises about pulling back investment if the government hinders their ability to monetize those investments. Interesting times.

JR

Sensible regulation of monopolies (or very near monopolies) is in the interest of the common man, is not unreasonable, and has been proven to work.  I suggest you consider the likely outcome should net-neutrality fail to be supported/enforced.  The playing field is not naturally leveled by unfettered business interests.

A P
 
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