varying internet speeds; someone explain....

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AnalogPackrat said:
JohnRoberts said:
Not as much a business vs consumer use of bandwidth the tension in the news seems to be between companies selling high bandwidth streams of content  like TV, or movies. The buzz word "net neutrality" gets embraced by all sides and the government is injecting itself wanting to apply old telephone system regulations (I suspect revenue from the pure voice phone systems are falling). 

I don't trust the government as far as I can throw them, and business is already making noises about pulling back investment if the government hinders their ability to monetize those investments. Interesting times.

JR

Sensible regulation of monopolies (or very near monopolies) is in the interest of the common man, is not unreasonable, and has been proven to work.  I suggest you consider the likely outcome should net-neutrality fail to be supported/enforced.  The playing field is not naturally leveled by unfettered business interests.

A P
I am all in favor of "sensible" regulation... I wouldn't even mind postage on email to prevent spam.  ;D Regulators could sure do a better job policing the hackers. The amount of probes my website gets on a daily basis is remarkable, while this is an international problem not a local one to manage. 

I need to avoid arguing about the governments "motives" as that is unfair, but if they were interested in protecting the integrity of the WWW they wouldn't have backed away from ICANN. The commerce dept contract to run  IANA is expiring, and in this case I actually trust the US government more than someone else to manage DNS registration and oversight.

JR
 
> any chances this could get better for you over the next few years

It is telling that I can know more about New York's lame rural-net than my own.

http://stopthecap.com/2014/12/04/cuomo-100-new-york-state-access-100mbps-broadband-2018/

"New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo .... will kick off his latest broadband expansion effort with the launch of his $500 million broadband expansion program, ..., a follow-up to the state’s $70 million public-private effort to expand broadband that began in 2012.

"Despite the money, the 2012 effort did not make a significant dent in the pervasive problem of broadband availability in upstate New York.

"While Gov. Cuomo is committed to a target speed of 100Mbps within the next four years, more than one million New York households still cannot access broadband that achieves the state minimum — 6.5Mbps. That includes 113,000 businesses.

"...a significant part of the next round of funding likely to reach more institutional and public safety networks off-limits to the public, middle mile network expansion that can build state-of-the-art fiber rings that do not connect to end users, and an even bigger amount handed to Time Warner Cable ... and rural phone companies... Much of the money awarded to last mile providers like cable and phone companies will placate those that have stubbornly refused to expand further into rural areas unless taxpayers pick up some of the expense."

In Maine, the (under-paid!!) governor has not put a foot in his mouth about internet. (I suspect he does not use it.)

Several colleges and hospitals, rackets with serious business-case for robust internet, did leverage funding for the "Three Ring Binder", another "middle mile fiber ring that does not connect to end users". It runs from Portland (suburb of Boston) up the coast and inland to Ft Kent (which ought to be Canada but isn't).

Image: http://static.bangordailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/1270687971_3fcf.jpg

If I drive about 20 minutes I can look at the fiber, ponder the many bits moving very fast inside, and wish that I had a tap.

Notable quote:
"...last mile providers ...have stubbornly refused to expand further into rural areas..."

I have Cable only because of the 1980s boom in TV services, and internet because it does not cost $50/mo to add internet to an existing cable. I also have copper voice, and DSL on existing copper is not that costly, but the cable company got in first and the telephone company doesn't want to lift a finger to split a thin customer base. Fiber to my home is utter pie in the sky.

Actually, cell-phone is starting to look competitive. After years of half-bar service, we now have good signal (but only on some phones!). There's $99 home box, often discounted. A data-plan can be had for much less than Time-Warner cable internet. Major question is whether the box and the plan will link through the cell-tower at the graveyard, or try (and fail) to link with the tower up past the Falls.
 
> Sensible regulation of monopolies...

The monopolies strongly support this idea:

AT&T, Verizon Break Out The Campaign Contribution Checkbooks Early, Sending $ to the Newly-Elected

http://stopthecap.com/2014/12/04/att-verizon-break-campaign-contribution-checkbooks-early-sending-newly-elected/

We may not agree on what "sensible regulation" is.
 
PRR said:
> Sensible regulation of monopolies...



We may not agree on what "sensible regulation" is.

;D ;D ;D ;D

Lighting up fiber in rural america is purely an economic issue. Lots of square miles and not many warm bodies to support the investment.

The government support of universal mail service was productive and good basic infrastructure. The rural telephone subsidies were helpful to get telephone service out to the boonies, while nowadays how many people still have land-lines (besides me)?

A similar mandate from government for city customers to subsidize rural customers so they can get their netflix downloads does not strike me as good use of our diminishing wealth.

Business and free market pursuit of profit will build out the bandwidth that customers are willing to pay for.

Just like with land lines, wireless cell phones are far more cost effective and many less developed nations that aren't saddled with archaic wired phone systems can just jump to the next stage with cellular technology.  Domestic or land based cellular technology still requires a fairly dense population to support the cell towers,  and the further you get away from the paved roads the harder it gets.

Google and perhaps others have been experimenting with novel ways to deliver bandwidth. IIRC they have experimented with dirigibles and  solar powered drones that could stay aloft for decent periods.  Direct TV sells a satellite internet service in partnership with Exede but since AT&T owns Direct TV they push DSL over the satellite for internet. Not sure what their end game is but I expect them to deliver it more cost effectively than the government.

Perhaps after this is more mature and we actually see market abuses then regulate them, but for now I prefer capitalism to drive this bus (iness).

Government should have enough work on their plate to regulate the hackers (North Korea? et al , I get lots of hits from .ru ) .

JR

 
Business and free market pursuit of profit will build out the bandwidth that customers are willing to pay for.

We will get less and pay more for it is my bet.
 
lassoharp said:
Business and free market pursuit of profit will build out the bandwidth that customers are willing to pay for.

We will get less and pay more for it is my bet.

Many here own and operate businesses and I suspect most try to deliver value to our customers.
-------

I will not attempt to defend AT&T the original anti-trust baby maker (baby-bells after first break up), but like the new terminator they came back together more or less. I am encouraged that AT&T had unkind words about the government moves, but they got real quiet after their existing government handlers tightened up the screws.

I would like to see what Google and others can come up with to advance the technology before they get regulated into mediocrity.

Of course maybe I'm wrong...

JR
 
PRR said:
> PERFORMANCE package will Bell Canada affords me a 6.0MBPS download rate and costs me $70.00 per month. That's in a bundle with Phone and TV, so if it was internet on it's own add another $20 or so. It appears we are getting royally ripped off in Canada.

$70/month for phone, TV, and innernet?

Nope, $70 for just Internet, mind you there's no DL/UL quotas at that price.

My total bill tops out at just over $200 for all three.

Today's Tim-Warner advertised rates (you don't really get these prices):

Ultimate 50Mbps Upload up to 5Mbps    $ 64 99 per month
Extreme 30Mbps Upload up to 5Mbps    $ 54 99 per month
Turbo 20Mbps Upload up to 2Mbps    $ 44 99 per month
Standard 15Mbps Upload up to 1Mbps    $ 34 99 per month (but really $53+$6)
Basic 6Mbps Upload up to 1Mbps    $ 29 99 per month
Everyday Low Price 2Mbps Upload up to 1Mbps    $ 14 99 per month

WiFi not included until you pay $54+ (I own my own router)

My package would be equivalent to your BASIC 6Mbps package, but with WI-FI.

SpeedTest numbers: ping 40mS Down 15.8Mbps Up 1.11Mbps (5%-11% better than spec)
That's to an in-Maine server. To San Jose CA, ping is 108mS; other numbers close.

Ping 31ms, Down 6.02Mbps, Up 0.70Mbps, this is Windsor to Detroit server.

I rarely use the full download speed, Netflix works great here as well, stalls very rarely. The 0.70 Upload time gets in the way when I'm uploading large projects for Mastering or to Dropbox.

Would love to have twice the bandwidth for the same price.

Mark
 
> It appears we are getting royally ripped off in Canada.

Looks that way.

> Ping 31ms, ......., this is Windsor to Detroit server.

Uh, can't you walk from Windsor to Detroit almost that fast?

> when I'm uploading large projects for Mastering

Yeah, well (grumpy old man mode) I remember driving my car to the other end of the state to drop-off masters. Took all day. (That's what I told my boss, and I won't contradict myself now....)
 
  Nice thing is my university, it has it's own optic directly connected to the www, ping is less than 1ms and bandwidth is limited by the LAN connection, so 100M for any wired computer... :) wifi get's really bad since we are all connected to the same network and it sucks, but as I have a reasonable good phone service I don't use wifi often...
  This happens because engineering department is the most reasonable point to locate the server, then the service is distributed to all other departments some blocks away, up to 15 or 20, so they may have few ms ping, who cares, we rules at that. I heard they are paying about 1M/year for that service, about 100k US$/year, so 8k US$ a month...

JS
 
Contention ratio can explain varying speeds at different times of the day. Where I used to live, the 'net would fly during the day, and then when people arrived home from work after 6 it would become like treacle.

I did a speed test of my phone vs girlfriend's net connection.I get 4G at her place (rarely see it elsewhere - hers is about the only place I do get decent phone)). It totally nukes her wired connection at 10 Mbits - I couldn't believe it. I got this by tethering her laptop to phone and doing a speed test. We can watch HD films via the phone. Her wired connection is appalling, particularly after 6.

Oh yeah - the Samsung G4s tethers amazingly. It's the only thing I like about it. I really want to change it for a Blackberry q10, but wonder if the BB will tether as well?
 
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