Windows 7 to 10 Upgrade

[Tubetec]

So theres a 72 hour use limit, not really a problem for music recording .When you restart the PE the desktop is automatically reset ,so you need to run your drivers again and re-install programs all over , this is less of a problem than it seems as driver install can be automated to a single click and programs like REW and Reaper install on a modern PC in seconds , as and when you need them .
While the OS image itself has no persistance because its a ramdrive , files stored on the root directory of the drive itself are saved .

So maybe we can have our cake and eat it , no windows EULA or other anoying bullshit, but you have to spend a few minutes setting up the drivers and desktop apps how you like it before a session , sounds like a good deal to me ,

 

[Tubetec]

So my tests with the Win 10 PE based on Hirens boot disk are fairly good , its has some powerful recovery tools for corrupted hard drives , so even if the system on disk is innoperable ,you can scan and access the partition and data .

Its built in time limitations aside , it looks like a good platform to base recording DAW on ,
where only a minimal set of drivers is required to do the job ,
It seems to be limited to a 1Gb ramdisk ,but there might be ways around that ,

The contents of an external PE drive is fully visible in any version of Windows it sees , yet a bootable OS on virtually any PC(including intell MAC) if the priority if set accordingly .
The one thing you dont want to do with Win PE is clone a drive containing it and have it meet up with its identical twin on the same PC network later , that causes the non booting drive to become protected and non read/writable .

It reminds me a bit of my earliest days with Sincalir computers , where the software was loaded into ram after start up ,you start from scratch each time you power up the device , the registry is brand new out of a box everytime , only the programs required to do the job are loaded into memory .

I was able to get the Win 10 PE running off the internal SSD on a trashcan mac , at the moment theres no trace of mac software whatsoever on there ,
I tried my usual DAW ,test software and audio drivers and it fires up right out of the box everytime , like brand new you could say .
Getting the proper drivers for Win 10 from apple is a bit more tricky without an apple os running on the same machine , I didnt have any luck creating MAC USB installer via Windows but it should be possible .


Another nice treat with an OS that has no persistance is time limited trial versions of software works in perpetuity , its like groundhog day for Windows

 

[Tubetec]

Ive been fooling around with a portable install of Reaper on a 4gb ramdrive in Win PE 10 using Passmark OFSmount .

Its extremely fast , both to install/ load , scan plugins and render/process , very much faster than off the internal SSD .

I used Crystal diskmark to bench test the SSD vs the Ramdrive ,
read speeds are around 1200mb/s off the SSD vs over 5000mb/s from ram .

Of course Ram is volatile , so any interuption in mains supply and data loss is certain .
you can of course set Reaper to save the audio to another real hard drive on the system ,


I also tested the DPC latency on the mac pro running win10 PE with Latency Mon ,
again very very good results ,around 20 microseconds minimum with the machine at idle .

I looked at many comments about the use of ram drives and warnings against it for audio ,
unexpected power failure could result in data loss but if you have that eventuality covered , by using a battery powered laptop or UPS , I dont see any issue .

Hirens boot disk is a quick and easy way to test things , in a non destructive way , you can even remove the internal drive on your pc and run up PE from external USB drive .
Reaper ,REW and my SSL audio drivers all work just as you'd expect them too , only faster , around 5 times faster .

 

[Tubetec]

So as an OS to run a few software based bench tools like REW and basic recording/playback with Reaper , I highly recomend trying WIN PE ,
it avoids many of the anoyances of WIN 10 which spoil workflow ,but its also boots up from an external drive just fine on a PC with regular Windows 10//11 installed on the main system drive .
The iso file is 3Gb in total and loads up a disk image into a 1gb ramdrive ,but it doesnt stop the rest of system memory being used as ramdrives which appear just like any other system hard drive , only blazingly fast .

I havent managed to install the MAC pro drivers to WIn PE yet as I currently have no version of Apple OS up and running ,
This seems to point in the right direction ,
https://twocanoes.com/knowledge-base/deploying-boot-camp-using-winpe-and-mdt/

 

[Tubetec]

Ive been on a computer burn out the last few days ,
I managed to find a direct link to the Mac Pro bootcamp package from the Apple site , from which I was able to extract the Windows driver package .
the exe installer loads most of the onboard drivers but crashes out on the gigantic graphics package .I was able to load the basic AMD GPU driver ,without the console software .
Bluetooth driver is also non functional , but that seems to be a well known issue with Bootcamp Macs of this era , as BT devices need to be enumerated on the Mac Os side first .
Wifi ,and ethernet are working .

So I was able to extract the inf drivers from the Bootcamp package and make them load unattended in PE after boot up , without requireing a restart .
From the internal SSD on the Mac the PE OS builds and boots in around a minute , it takes another minute before the on board drivers are fully installed , then you have to install your audio interface and DAW and your ready to record .
its the same simple routine everytime , nothing changes ,ever ....

There is no Win 10 nag screens to update , no curtains and smoke screen graphics in front of the settings you need to access with PE.

I also tried a newer version of HBCD based on Win 11 PE , it loaded the same drivers as Win 10 PE , but Reaper doesnt work and the SSL2 drivers also seem to be problematic .

 

[Tubetec]

Theres a number of very annoying aspects with Win 8,10 and 11 , first off when you hit the power button , its normally set to send the pc to sleep , this is very bad news for the internal battery if its a laptop and its plugged out . After a few weeks in sleep mode the battery depletes itself to the point your computer wont start until its plugged in again .
I thought I had the issue sorted by changing the power button function to shutdown the computer instead , but it still leaves your PC in a suspend mode ,and hence the battery still slowly drains .

It turns out to fully dissable sleep or suspend mode you need to change the Power settings relating to fast boot-up , once you untick that box in power settings ,your PC will shut down fully and restart from scratch when you next hit the power on button . It only makes a difference in boot times of around a few seconds , so why bother with it at all ? As far as Im concerned the sleep mode needlessly leads to a situation where the battery becomes fully discharged , this in turn reduces the life expectancy of the battery , the question begs to be asked ,why do Microsoft do this , are they running some services in the backround when the Pc is asleep , almost certainly yes and they dont care if your battery life is reduced in the process , if fact its good for business from their perspective , from the users perspective it needlessly causes wear on the battery and means in all likelyhood the PC will need to be replaced long before it normally would have .

This suspend mode can also be problematic , I had a problem with a new laptop recently , It BSOD'ed on me ,then refused to restart from suspend mode the screen remaining blank . Two days later it decided to work again , but was problematic until I changed the power settings .

The reality for most people is if their pc refuses to boot they need technical support , and theres lost productivity while it gets sorted .
For anyone who needs a step by step guide to disable this so called 'feature' of Windows have a look here .
https://www.howtogeek.com/780506/youre-shutting-down-wrong-how-to-really-shut-down-windows/

Ive heard from a few people in IT that the turnaround time for big companies and bussiness to replace their computers is now down to around two years , this policy along with Microsofts obvious attempts to reduce further the useful life of the computer through the sleep/suspend/battery issue and constant updates fuels wars over resources in far away places , its a fucking disgrace .......its not green or environmentally friendly either not to mention the human cost in wasted time and effort .

Im just starting out with Win10&11 now and Ive been moments away from smashing the computer to pieces with a baseball bat on several ocassions . Theres no way Id even considder using a Windows 11 machine to do anything appart from the most basic post production audio tasks .

 

[Disco Volante]

The amount of perfectly workable hardware of every kind and denomination being thrown away in the so-called civilized world is an abomination and is a part of the behaviour that is destroying the world that belongs to our children.

 

[Tubetec]

I'm tired of nag screens and update notifications that I cant disable ,
biometric authentication ,offers to sync with a smart phone and the only the devil himself
knows what creeps in on the back of that ....

 

[Disco Volante]

The most pervasive OS on the planet is based on fear and terror. It's really quite absurd. The fact that it speaks to me politely and doesn't nag is part of why I'm staying with linux, plus of course the absolute stability. I've only seen BSOD on other people's systems the last 20 years;-)
Pardon me, this may be a remark for the Brewery...
Cheers

 

[ruffrecords]

I'm tired of nag screens and update notifications that I cant disable ,
biometric authentication ,offers to sync with a smart phone and the only the devil himself
knows what creeps in on the back of that ....

Sounds like you are ready to embrace the freedom that is Linux.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Tubetec]

Ive tried a few Linux variations over the years , Im not great at command line so find it a bit of a chore to set up manually . There are of course Linux varieties that are preloaded with all the audio software you could want , but finding working drivers for audio interfaces isnt always possible .

Win 10 PE is nothing like normal Win 10 ,

As its designed for IT people to get actual work done everything runs with full Admin account permissions ,so no annoying tick boxes or double checks when you perform actions . No 'helpful' suggestion pop ups , this massively improves workflow . Theres very few blue checkboxes like in WIN 10 , in the main your dealing with something much more like WIN7 .
And your never put in a position where you need to enter loads of personal data and use an internet connection to get a functioning computer after installation of the OS .

When I saw the sheer amount of personal data required to set up a brand new off the shelf Win 11 pc I was shocked and angered ,they're sizing people up for the kill and using the mobile phone sync to make their advertising machine work 'better' . Its utterly shameless , yet people offer themselves upto it like lambs to a slaughter .

 

[Michael Tibes]

Sounds like you are ready to embrace the freedom that is Linux.

Well, practically in the modern music production world I unfortunetely don't see a way around Windows / macos - which are in my opinion pretty much equally bad in terms of personal freedom, idiotic and annoying behaviour and so on.

I can't say for sure whether win 11 practically behaves better or worse than 10 i've only used 10 (and everything below since win 95) so far. I've read some comments about 11 creating more crashes, but also being more cpu efficient...

Practically with win 10 you were able to skip the email and personal information during installation, not sure if this still works in 11. Noone can keep you from putting in fantasy info anyway. If the installation is just for audio, you might be able to reduce the chatter to the outside world to a minimum. My workstation only goes online if really needed. I don't want any automatic updates / notifications / weather reports or whatever. Also 'Shutup10' can be your friend and help switching off unwanted things. There is a switch for pretty much everything in windows, you just can't reach them without additional help because they're hidden under the hood.

All of this gets more difficult once you use your computer as a universal machine for email, internet and all those fancy things as well. But you could also use a dual-boot system with two independent OSs, one for music an one for the rest. Endless options.... Using common sense might also help a bit, for example if you don't want your email to be sent to MS after you managed to skip that point during the installation, maybe don't use the windows mail client and so on ;-)

Michael