Woke Madness

[Winston OBoogie]

  Although I think the burden of premeditated murder will be hard to prove based on all videos that the public can see so far.

You're not a lawyer so your opinion means nothing mate.  Neither am I so the same applies to me.
I also don't take the word of a self claimed lawyer on you tube who makes videos to sell insurance for gun owners.

The only thing that will determine the fate of the accused is which side plays a better game at the trial, and that isn't likely to be known for some time. 

 

[pucho812]

You're not a lawyer so your opinion means nothing boy.  Neither am I so the same applies to me.
I also don't take the word of a self claimed lawyer on you tube who makes videos to sell insurance for gun owners.

The only thing that will determine the fate of the accused is which side plays a better game at the trial, and that isn't likely to be known for some time.

BOY?  you must have caught me right after I went swimming.

 

[L´Andratté]

...for hope of reduction in cross-group tensions I'll keep trying to locate middle-ways.

You are of course right, but I think you are not acknowledging the problem.
Hard to find a way when at least one party (fill in which ever you like) is not only uninterested in finding common ground, but thrives on escalation and division.

 

[L´Andratté]

BOY?

I share your POV Winston, but this is not acceptable...

...for hope of reduction in cross-group tensions I'll keep trying to locate middle-ways.

You are of course right, but I think you are not acknowledging the problem.
Hard to find a way when at least one party (fill in which ever you like) is not only uninterested in finding common ground, but thrives on escalation and division.

 

[L´Andratté]

I realize I am probably on a lot ignore lists but I think online communication has a kind of
centrifugal dynamic that is really out of control. People are pushed to the extremes
of their personalities.

"Western" societies are eroding in a bad way, not that all was well to begin with, but this starts looking like
it will get really ugly.

 

[rob_gould]

In the wake of Kenosha,, this has by far been the most concise, and well thought out explanation of the events and the law to date.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2izax3xDyySAUMN1LDRMirhBT-qfo-9lIe82dXeI8wd8qFUiWgHy6rKYw&v=NSU9ZvnudFE

I watched the whole video and, as a layman, I have no idea about whatever his legal assessment is accurate or not. His assessment seemed reasonable based on the evidence he chose to present.

But I did find his ESSENTIAL t shirt with a picture of a rifle a bit strange from the get-go.

And then he pretty much undermined any credibility he might have had by turning the last minute of his piece into an advert about insuring yourself in case you ever shoot someone. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

I ALWAYS have a knife on me. I guess the cops can shoot me dead at all times(JR's LAW 2020)...

cute.. I won't bore the list with your logical fallacies, but request that you stop making this personal.
======
I really hope you do not resist arrest and use your "knife", on an officer.  The one time I was arrested and woke up in jail, even though legally drunk, I didn't do anything that stupid.

I used to always carry a boxcutter in my pocket when flying to trade shows (to open boxes with during set up ), but 9/11 kind of put an end to that convenience.  :

I had a puke pull a knife on me once in a dark alley in back bay boston back in the 60s. His knife wasn't very sharp (barely cut through my sweatshirt).  I backed away from the confrontation and kept backing up all the way into the building next door. My roommate wasn't so lucky (not stabbed but stomped by a couple of that pukes friends).  My roommate rescue attempt was cut short by that knife poking me in my gut. 

while they let people(WHITE PEOPLE) walk the streets with AR-15s.

2nd amendment

The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so.

In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain’s rational part. This is the part of the brain that responds to situations with good judgment and an awareness of long-term consequences. Teens process information with the amygdala. This is the emotional part.

In teen’s brains, the connections between the emotional part of the brain and the decision-making center are still developing—and not always at the same rate. That’s why when teens have overwhelming emotional input, they can’t explain later what they were thinking. They weren’t thinking as much as they were feeling.
https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051

To be generous that dumbass kid was not mature enough to understand the consequences of acting emotionally. While never justified, armed confrontation is a logical outcome when local governments do not stop the rioting and attacks on private citizens. (In fact some local governments seem to be getting a little better at it, and the feds scooping up instigators and removing them from the scrum certainly helps cool things down.
======
as I have shared before I think AR-15s are jokes... boy's toys for boys with short guns (smooth bore weapons... old army saying.. "this is my rifle and this is my gun, this is for shooting and this is for fun".  ;D )  I was issued a M-16 and never thought it was that great of a weapon. Mine jammed on me at the rifle range during basic training, never a good thing.  Apparently the iconic look of an assault weapon is appealing/or objectionable (which ironically makes it appealing to some people). My next door neighbor has one along with many other weapons, but he never served in the military and probably bought one just because he could. He didn't buy it for show I didn't even know he owned one until it came up in convesation.  I wouldn't mess with him. He is older than me and one of his favorite sayings is that he is too old to run or fight, so he'll have to shoot any idiot who attacks him. 

Mighty white of you.

I have heard that saying before used jokingly to suggest a parsimonious response to a request. (Parsimonious: Synonyms Miserly, Niggardly, etc. See penurious.)  Are you calling me "niggardly"?  8)

I will assume that you meant some sort of racial invective?  Objectively I am caucasian, so you have me pegged accurately in that regard, while I expect your stereotypical (prejudiced) assumptions are faulty.

I can't imagine what all the protests are about.

Don't worry twitter will tell you what to think.

This song came out in 1987 and NOTHING has changed.
https://youtu.be/Z7-TTWgiYL4

Not on my playlist.
======
From where I sit a lot has changed since 1987 (actually since the 60s) mostly for the better...

Sadly the racial grievance industry and social justice warriors have moved race relations backwards for over the last decade plus. It appears many are well intentioned but useful fools for the anarchist instigators trying to incite revolution to tear down the system, so they can start over (cough). Be careful what you wish for (support). {flame suit on}

JR

PS: IMO You sound a little prejudiced (even racist?)

 

[JohnRoberts]

Right on. After Obama was elected I had a patient tell me during an exam, "We've got to get that n*gger out of the White House." There's a lot of those folks in here in northern California (same ignorant trumpsters that won't wear masks), and I guess they figure all honkeys think alike.

Prejudice much?  Sounds a little like Hillary's "deplorables" comment.

Good luck if VP Biden plays that card this time.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

I'm also happy to identify as Antifa, just as the tens of thousands that landed on the Normandy Beaches in WWII did.

I tried to find the original post this quote came from and didn't find it in this thread.

In propaganda this is what is called the "big lie", trying to equate antifa with soldiers fighting in WWII. Repeated often enough this might convince some college kids ignorant about world history. I would caution against saying that to soldiers or ex-military who could take offense, (like I do).  Our soldiers who fought in WWII have been called the "greatest generation" because they are. 

Back in the 1940s there were actual fascists like Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler, the leaders of Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany respectively, were both fascists. There are no actual fascist nations today.

If you are seriously opposed to fascism why not oppose modern neo-fascist movements in Europe and elsewhere?

The antifa branding looks like an attempt to hide in plain sight masquerading as peace loving philosophers, while surreptitiously instigating violence and disruption. 

It is an insult to our intelligence to suggest you are fighting fascism in the USA.

JR

While I deeply respect your resolve/courage to put yourself at the front line to fight for that which you believe in,  I do not trust that the militarization of progressive thought will transform conservatives into democrats, or make centrists out of partisan fanatics. Perhaps that is none of your concern?
For my idealized version of activism, it tries for something that approximates 'love in action'; making kindness in word and deed the principal gesture- especially towards those least deserving of it- and I want to believe it sends out more ripples of positive change into the world than combating hate, lies, and conceit with alienation, ridicule, and judgment.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I share your POV Winston, but this is not acceptable...

I was returning in kind.  I was called exactly the same by Pucho in another thread.    No one said anything at that time so I considered the term fair game.

Edit - I found it:

"I have not lost any will... I am offended at such a remark.

... believe you me boy...    "

If his remark to me is intended as jest, yet mine to him as unacceptable,  perhaps Pucho could explain the rules to me.

In the meantime I'll find some other term  to use and edit my post. 

 

[L´Andratté]

Thanks for clarification, Winston. Context makes a world of difference, but it made you look vile before.
/out

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Thanks for clarification, Winston. Context makes a world of difference, but it made you look vile before.
/out

No problem sir, I've changed my original reply to "mate" to avoid confusion in my intent. 

 

[hodad]

It is an insult to our intelligence to suggest you are fighting fascism in the USA.

JR

As an exercise, you should write yourself (or find on the internet) a little "fascist checklist" and start ticking off boxes during your daily perusal of the WSJ.  If you're honest with yourself (and yes, I know that's not always easy), you might find that we're a lot closer to fascism than you want to believe. 

And you really do want to believe that Trump is not moving us ever closer to fascism and authoritarianism, don't you?  I look at the right and see people who are desperate, absolutely desperate to believe some old fable about their country, their party, themselves--and all it takes is a little hokey dog and pony show from Trump to allow them to convince themselves that they were right all along, that that fable is still real and true--a fable of American exceptionalism, of a once-and-future white Christian nation (ignoring, of course, blacks and hispanics and native Americans who have been here since before the nation was founded), a belief in a vibrant American democracy even as they cheer on their leaders who work overtime to stifle and destroy it, a belief that they hold some sort of moral high ground as they support policies that rip apart the lives of the most desperate and downtrodden.  They believe a little Trump pixie dust makes his bungling COVID performance and 180K Americans dead REALLY AMAZINGLY GREAT!!!!! (you see how that works?  I parroted Trump and you're already feeling better, aren't you?)

I'm sorry that Republicans can't or won't see that statues of men who betrayed their country and fought to defend slavery just might be hurtful to Americans whose ancestors were enslaved.  I'm sorry that Republicans are so afraid of admitting guilt or wrongdoing--either theirs or their ancestors'--that they refuse to see the lingering effects of slavery and the systemic oppression that lingers to this day. 

I look at Republicans and I see fear--fear of change, fear of admitting mistakes, fear of acknowledging the wrongdoing of their country's government, fear of being shaken from the place where they feel comfortable and secure, fear of admitting that that comfort and security comes at a real cost to others around them. 

And to a certain extent, I understand.  It's hard to face your fears, it's hard to deal with change, it's hard to admit you're wrong, it's hard to accept that the beliefs that were ingrained in you since childhood were built on bigotry and falsehoods, and it's hard to counter the effect this ingraining has on your thoughts even when you know better.

But hanging onto an outdated fable is not really a wise choice, and it also comes at a cost.  One of the costs is the surrendering of the real freedoms Republicans supposedly cherish in order to protect their precious myth.  Whether it's vote suppression, undermining the rule of law, graft, corruption, etc.--as long as the Illusion remains, it's all okay.  And that's the tragic irony, I suppose--that in service of protecting their idea of America, they facilitate the destruction of America itself. 

I'm sure Trump will congratulate them all on the GREAT WORK!!! they're doing in that regard.

 

[crazydoc]

Prejudice much?  Sounds a little like Hillary's "deplorables" comment.

I don't understand. Calling a black person a n*gger is not deplorable? There's lots of that all over this country - I've heard it, you've heard it, it's a mindset that is common and harks to the past when "America was great".

 

[boji]

Trump and Barr having attempted to label Antifa as a terrorist organisation is ludicrous

I agree with you there, as it's a bit like crying wolf.  Once there's a deeply serious threat from any idea or group, the conditioning will be to think it's being overrepresented or hyperbolized.  Antifa (to the degree I've seen it express itself) looks to be youths acting out the anarcho-syndicalist/communist warrior for the sense of meaning it gives and/or status it imparts.  Same with the Rittenhouse kid- playing the conservative medic-warrior/ property defender.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I don't understand. Calling a black person a n*gger is not deplorable?

I don't think I ever called a black person that, while I have heard one of my more red neck neighbors use such verbiage privately.  I am unpopular with him because I push back against such language and stereotypes. He accused me of voting for Hillary, his worst insult, (actually not his worst but I won't repeat that one because it also uses that N word followed by "-lover").

I have been living in the deep south for decades and see where some adults (older than me) are products of growing up in a different culture ( was raised in the North). One time visiting with my old neighbor (now RIP), his wife shared what she though was an innocent joke and didn't realize how racist it was based on derogatory insulting stereotypes. I informed her of how I saw it, but it is all but impossible to undo 8 decades of that kind of programming. She really is a sweet old lady but a product of a different time. Their children, and children's children have grown up exposed to different races as peers and are better for it.

In business dealings with older born and raised here executives inside Peavey, I have heard them referred to as "democrats", some sort of slang, code no doubt based on how they typically vote.

For TMI back last century when we were looking to hire a new product manager to work inside Peavey, the VP (a CA guy) asked me privately what I thought about considering a black candidate for the product  manager position. I told him yes absolutely just to shake things up, but that was the last I heard of that idea. I was not the one who needed to be convinced. 

There's lots of that all over this country - I've heard it, you've heard it, it's a mindset that is common and harks to the past when "America was great".

That is a false equivalency and a pretty damn ugly suggestion.

I guess this is what passes for identity politics these days. Have a better Sunday.

JR

 

[Winston OBoogie]

That sounds about right Boji..  Yet  the narrative from the W.H.  says otherwise - Here's part of VP Pence's speech from the RNC:

"People like Dave Patrick Underwood, an officer in the Department of Homeland Security Federal Protective Service, who was shot and killed during the riots in Oakland, Calif. ''

The inference being that some arm of the BLM protests were at the root of Officer Underwood's death.

However,  the alleged gunman is Air Force Staff Sgt. Steven Carrillo, linked to the Boogaloo movement — a right-wing extremist group that harbours a mistrust of law enforcement and government and anticipates a second American Civil War, referred to as the “boogaloo.”

 

[Winston OBoogie]

The "Unite The Right" rally in Charlottesville. 

Remember -  "... very fine people on both sides"

 

[Winston OBoogie]

With all due respect to John Roberts who served during the Viet Nam war- 

My father is in his 90's and was a Royal Marine.  He remembers all too well WWII and the people who died @ Normandy.  He has zero difficulty identifying fascism in the US  when he sees it. 

Also, just because John Roberts is offended by my view does not mean his view is correct.  Lots of other folks are "offended"  by profanity, words.  But so what?    "I am offended"  is a weak attempt to shut things down.

 

[boji]

Remember -  "... very fine people on both sides"

Yeah, no.  :-X 

I was reading about the 3%-rs and NFAC yesterday.  Unnerving paramilitary fringe stuff. What's strange is they share similar views on governance and liberty.

Hard to find a way [against] escalation and division.

No doubt.  I admit deemphasis-  but only because I don't like the maze I'm in.  I want to map out the exits.