Yamaha pm5d not booting

[richiyobs]

https://groupdiy.com/threads/yamaha-pm5d-not-booting.80189/post-1062521No changing the main boards... Boot fails in both machine... I understood it wrong... A friend on mine is working on it in his lab... And send me a video only to verify that putting the cards in their own hardware the working one was back OK!
Sorry for misunderstanding

 

[capacitorless]

No worries I'll get a few photos uploaded later just in case they might be useful. I guess that means that the main board in the damaged unit might still be ok.

Edited: I've been through the service manual and haven't seen anything about earlier vs later board revisions, and how compatible they are to each other. I'm guessing that they likely work together interchangeably. I have seen the differences between the non-RH and the RH models, though, but that's not germane here of course.

The board differences might be stability/longevity improvements.

 

[richiyobs]

No worries I'll get a few photos uploaded later just in case they might be useful.

Great thank you so much

 

[capacitorless]

Just a real quick note that the main board in the RH here is labeled DMS, and looks like the one in your first photo from today. I'll upload a few photos later tonight. I tried to also capture the section that has a different part number on it; everything is pretty well tucked away (as you know, haha!).

I plan on having it apart for awhile, so please let me know if you can use part numbers/photos from other angles, boards, etc and I'll make it happen

 

[capacitorless]

Ok these are dusty! Sorry about that, just had a short amount of time to take a few before taking off. I think this is the first time this board has been opened since installation. Just a few in case it helps for now.

It looks like the forum software is handling the sizes, but if these are way too big, someone let me know and I'll size them down. They are right out of an older iPhone set for high res.

 

[richiyobs]

Thanks for your time and support...
https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/150573-yamaha-wa77120r-main-pcb-assembly-for-pm5dHere the Dms is declared Pm5d not Rh... The main difference is recall head amp... That s why was asking about different releases...
Even connections are little different in these 2 main boards

 

[richiyobs]

So if Dms is also installed in Rh series... This let me think Dms is the last release

 

[richiyobs]

https://www.fullcompass.com/prod/164198-yamaha-wa82920r-yamaha-mixers-pcbThis is the Brgcom... Same for pm5d and rh

 

[richiyobs]

Checked all Brg cards and dsp compared with the working pm5
At this point should it be a firmware problem?
Can t push upload... And also strange characters on the left column
My collegue tried to downgrade

 

[capacitorless]

I'm having a little trouble keeping track of where you're at with it at the moment. If you could send a little more detail around what comes up/what doesn't, that would be helpful

That said, (if I have it right) it sounds like the bad main/DMS board, when installed in the working PM5D, isn't booting up at all, but when the good one is reinstalled back into the working unit, that unit boots & works normally. The bad unit boots partially, but one side of the board is non-functional, and the display shows those strange characters for the current firmware revision #s (other than the LCD).

I'm pretty sure the distinction between the RH and non-RH boards comes down to the preamp section, plus an additional interface board, and the different cabling. I have a non-RH board as well, but it's buried in storage and I don't have access. If you've got a second one available (sounds like along with a tech) that's great, of course

Here's a question: if the board is powered off and rebooted, when it comes up to that screen with the messed up characters, are they the same characters as before?

My thinking here is that if they are not, there may be a stronger argument for there to be a RAM issue (or addressing circuitry issue) on the main board.

Some details surrounding the failed firmware update attempt would be very helpful. Edit: I mean, any error messages (a photo would work).

(edits: clarification)

 

[capacitorless]

Removing the battery completely, letting it sit for awhile and seeing if it comes up with the battery not installed might be worth a try as well.

Edit: Initially, I thought the RA model was newer as well, but from what I've read, Yamaha offered them specifically for different price points and needs. For example, 48 more expensive recallable head amps wouldn't be needed if running from FOH using a DSP5D on stage, or running digital only using the MY cards

Also, if you haven't already, you could look for a shorted trace or something across a couple of pins on the ICs on that board. If there's a question of corrosion (especially if it saw live use, even more if it was near a salt air environment) a careful cleaning might solve it.

I may reach out to Yamaha USA and see if they have that diagnostic program available.

Anyways, HTH and let me know if there's anything else I can do.

 

[richiyobs]

Sended all your infos to my friend....
Let s see tomorrow
Thanks again for all your support

And yes this summer only half console was running but with the hard reset....
Nowadays even this procedure fails

 

[richiyobs]

That console was also keeped more than 3 month into a yamaha assistance... And never had news since I called them at the end of summer and finally they told me... We need to change 2 boards... It s 3k euros... My answer was ok close it I m coming to pick it up! For that amount I can get I used one and in good conditions... I can keep it for faders and knobs...till my colleague wanted to try to fix... And now both consoles are far from home!

Edit _ hoped the assistance could fix boards instead of replacing them

 

[capacitorless]

If Yamaha looked at them, and assuming they were competent (I would expect them to be, just saying ), I'm guessing the boards are compromised physically in some way.

I have a similar situation, with a smaller audio DSP board that stopped working, and I'm going to try reflowing the solder on it using the home oven method. Let me know if you want details (the info is freely available on the 'net - I think most often the reason is to try to fix a video card). The general idea is to heat the board up to a temperature where the solder melts, which reflows the components to their pads.

That's what I would try if the boards were otherwise toast

Edit: I don't know if you've done this already, but I'll reach out to Yamaha later this week, and see if they'll send the diagnostic program mentioned earlier.

 

[richiyobs]

News... All boards are checked and working fine into the good pm5d
Quite sure it s a software problem according to my friend
Thanks for your attention

 

[capacitorless]

Very interested in the outcome! Crossing fingers for you.

Edit: this is dependent upon Yamaha, but I'll be sure to get the diagnostic program to you if they make it available.

 

[richiyobs]

Very interested in the outcome! Crossing fingers for you.

Edit: this is dependent upon Yamaha, but I'll be sure to get the diagnostic program to you if they make it available.

Wooow...Great! Thank you so much

 

[richiyobs]

2 main problems....
Dms board and some card in the central logic block!
At this point Don t know what to do....
Is there a merch where to find used parts?
Thanks for your attention

 

[richiyobs]

This is the bad one with the working parts of the good one....

 

[capacitorless]

I don't offhand, sorry! If you haven't already, as a start I would reach out to ProSoundWeb & Sound Forums.

A "wanted" ad might yield results from someone who's been sitting on a well worn PM5D, with some non-calibrating faders or other issues, and who's willing to part it out.

Edit: either the RH or non-RH variant. I went through the RH here, and it looks like it was designed from the beginning to have either type of input. The RH stuff uses an additional daughterboard, which plugs into the system in a different way than the non-RH stuff.

It's typical Yamaha engineering (saying that in a good way!). I don't know for certain of course, and YMMV, but I would expect with a high degree of certainty that your board's problem is "after" the input A/D, regardless of type. If you identify the other board, I'll be glad to look through the service manual for it & give you a better opinion. But yeah I'd say 99% sure either model will work