yikes alot of gain needed

[rodabod]

[quote author="ToobieSnack"]
DO NOT BUTCHER THAT MIC!!!!!

does it look like an electric shaver?
post a pic.
[/quote]

Yep, that's the one. I have around 5 of these.

They have an interesting design - double horse-shoe magnets top and bottom - very slim chamfered pole pieces.

Are they any good? I havn't used any of mine yet.

 

[Rossi]

An extra motor for experimenting would be cool. But since I live in Germany, there would be additional shipping costs. But they're sold out, anyways. I'm thiniking about getting another Thomann ribbon for experiments. Maybe rewinding the transformer would be a cool option.

I often prefer to have some low cut while recording; I sometimes use a hi shelf filter as well. I like to have a good signal before it hits the AD-converters. That way I don't have to use a lot of plug-ins and can better concentrate on adjusting levels when mixing.

 

[ToobieSnack]

ya if you got the bucks it is alway better to cut lows/highs before the AD.
this will let you increase your signal and hit the compressor a little lighter too. (the bass will kick the compresor in before it actually needs it)
another good tip.
later
ts

 

[rodabod]

Sorry for the hi-jack;

TS, is this the mics you are talking about?:

 

[ToobieSnack]

yepper!!!

 

[Marik]

[quote author="SCOOBY"]
where do you suggest i start with it then [/quote]

To get some top class performance out of this baby will require a major surgery, but first, is preamplifier.
Second, transformer--I'd try Lundahl.
Third, I'd try to re-ribbon it with a good, properly corrugated foil, and with much tighter clearance between ribbon and magnets.
After that I'd try to listening to it with grill and protective plates removed, to see how they affect the sound. Then I'd go from there.

Keep in mind, I have not try to re-ribbon it yet, so the third is rather my thought. I might do it soon.

It would be a good idea to change the magnets, but it would require re-machining the supporting/magnetic return frame. Besides, it is quite hard to find magnets of required dimentions.

 

[rodabod]

[quote author="Marik"]
Third, I'd try to re-ribbon it with a good, properly corrugated foil, and with much tighter clearance between ribbon and magnets.

Keep in mind, I have not try to re-ribbon it yet, so the third is rather my thought. I might do it soon.

It would be a good idea to change the magnets.[/quote]

Hi Marik, which variation of the mic is it which you own?

I've got one of the Fum ribbon assemblies and the ribbon material, corrugation and clearance all look very good.

Do you really think it is worth changing the magnets for a few extra dBs? I would have expected its output level to be ok with a decent preamp - although I have not built mine yet.

 

[ToobieSnack]

somebody post a pic of wht we are talking about.
that would be a great help as far as advice is concerned.
can't tell how hard it is to upgrade magnets or any of that stuff till we can see the patient to be operated on :wink: :grin:

don't be E sceert (don't be scared ... lol) to open er up..
later
ts

 

[rodabod]

I could do a photo of a Fum ribbon motor.

I've also been thinking of adding lots of mics to Zebra50's ribbon mic dissection thread. I could do a lot!

 

[ToobieSnack]

naked ribbon mics !!!!
bring on the gear porn!!!!!
got a royer pinup? :twisted: :ts salivates with tougue hanging out:
lol :wink:
later
ts

 

[rodabod]

Oh no....

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that.

I don't have a royer, but have a stereo B&O ribbon. mmmmm

Others;

Rare STC ribbon - very strange.

Film Industries M8.

Reslo RV.

Beyer M160, M260

Probably more too.

 

[ToobieSnack]

well damn rbod you need to start your own gear porn thread! :shock: :grin:

ya i'd love to see that banger and olufsen :grin: etc
and ya to the beyer stuff too that stuff is REALLY hard to find naked pics of.
all of it sounds great!
later
ts

 

[SCOOBY]

well after my thread's been jacked let me jack it back lol :twisted:
i'll be posting the innards of my nady soon i dis assembled it today.....where's the caps lol j/k
The ribbon looks like aluminum to me but at least it is intact.
the pre choice has changed i'll be doing dual j99's in a 2u rack with vu meters. i figure 70 of clean signal is about as good as i can get.

 

[Rossi]

I once disassembled both of my Thomann Ribbons. On my newer one (got it a month or two after the first) the gap is a bit tighter than on the first. Corrugation looks okay on both. They sound almost identical. On one there's a bit more bass response than on the other. Apart from that, they differ no more than +/- 1 dB over the whole audio range. So no problem using them as a stereo pair.

Judging by Fum's comparison files, the Lundahl transformer he uses in one of his mics sounds noticeably better than the stock one. That said, I find the mic very usable as is. So I would suggest, get a very low noise preamp first, before you think about exchanging the transformer or working on the ribbon motor.

 

[Marik]

[quote author="SCOOBY"]
The ribbon looks like aluminum to me...[/quote]

I have my doubts. It feels much less compliant and (at least advertised 2um) aluminum would not hold this type of corrugation.

the pre choice has changed i'll be doing dual j99's in a 2u rack with vu meters. i figure 70 of clean signal is about as good as i can get.

Don't overlook V76. I think Chris told that it is a very good pre for ribbons. Make a research and ask CJ (but nicely :grin

On my newer one (got it a month or two after the first) the gap is a bit tighter than on the first. Corrugation looks okay on both. They sound almost identical. On one there's a bit more bass response than on the other.

The tighter gap should give better bass performance.

[quote author="rodabod"]
Do you really think it is worth changing the magnets for a few extra dBs? I would have expected its output level to be ok with a decent preamp - although I have not built mine yet.[/quote]

When we talk about ribbons there are always two contradictory parameters any designer strive to improve--high end performance and sensitivity. If there is any chance of improving one (even slightly) without affecting another, I believe it is a good idea.

However, as I've already wrote above, here it will require remachining the frame and finding right sized magnets. Considering amount of involvement, at this point it is already easier to make a whole new motor, so I don't think it is worth it, esp. if you feel it has enough sensitivity.

 

[ToobieSnack]

scooby sorry if we went on but ... that does happen here from time to time hehe
i am sure that rbod and myself though the info would be helpful.. see..
IF you are thinking of rebuilding your motor ... seeing other designs and knowing why one is better than the other is a great way to discern you fiinal decision ..
also i did suggest a new thread be made for it but referenced in this thread so you can go look at it when you get the time/inclination ..
once agon my apologies it's just that us ribbon guys get excited when we see someone we can discuss these things with ..
hope it has at least been entertaining .. :wink: :grin:
'later
ts

 

[ToobieSnack]

BTW you might also want to check out ElFito's "one day ribbon mic" thread ..
tha material he used was super easy to work with.
if you should decide to try your hand at building a NEW motor as marik has advised quite wisely.
it's just as easy OR easier to just build a new one ..
also that v76 is a total monster and great for ribbons ..

also marik.... i know we have probably discussed this before but ..
(and scooby you mihgt want to know this too if you plan on motor building)

as it pertains to high end response...
from what i understand it is dependant on 2 things
1-the thinner the ribbon the better the high end response
2- the distance from the front on the rbbon (around the frame . pole peices,magnets and body structure) to the back of the ribbon ..
(the shorter the distance the better)

is this correct?
am i missing anything?
later
ts

 

[SCOOBY]

aww its no prob i been learning alot from u guys and i appreciate every word i've read even if it wasn't directly about my mic. shoot this ain't the last one just the first (ribbon wise anyway)

i'm off to find infor on motor structures and the v76 now be back with new ideas

love, peace, and hair grease
scoob

 

[Marik]

[quote author="ToobieSnack"]
as it pertains to high end response...
from what i understand it is dependant on 2 things
1-the thinner the ribbon the better the high end response [/quote]

No. Against our intuition, the thinner ribbon does not affect HF... at least directly. The thinner ribbon has less resonant modes and better sensitivity. The later happens until the certain point though, when the ribbon mass becomes equal to this of loaded air.

2- the distance from the front on the rbbon (around the frame . pole peices,magnets and body structure) to the back of the ribbon ..
(the shorter the distance the better)

is this correct?

Yes.

 

[Marik]

[quote author="SCOOBY"] shoot this ain't the last one just the first (ribbon wise anyway)
[/quote]

Hahahaha :green:

Welcome to ribbon hell :twisted:
I have over two dozens of those and still working