Yup! Gaddafis' lost it!

[living sounds]

It is not strange at all.. in fact it could be predicted from the increasing difficulty for totalitarian governments to restrict information flow to citizens.  There are millions oppressed in that region and they see successful overthrow in Tunisia and then Egypt on Al Jazera TV..

I'd also add the internet. People can communicate, and they can get unfiltered information. This will also make it harder for the religous nutcases to BS people.

 

[JohnRoberts]

It is not strange at all.. in fact it could be predicted from the increasing difficulty for totalitarian governments to restrict information flow to citizens.  There are millions oppressed in that region and they see successful overthrow in Tunisia and then Egypt on Al Jazera TV..

I'd also add the internet. People can communicate, and they can get unfiltered information. This will also make it harder for the religous nutcases to BS people.

I didn't think I needed to spell it out...  indeed personal media like facebook, cellphone cameras and twitter, but like I warned, Iran and others are not completely ignorant of the WWW, so caveat twitterer.

Interesting that one of the primary organizers in the Egyptian protests was a google executive...  I will ASSume he wasn't working on the clock.

JR

 

[ruffrecords]

It is not strange at all.. in fact it could be predicted from the increasing difficulty for totalitarian governments to restrict information flow to citizens.  There are millions oppressed in that region and they see successful overthrow in Tunisia and then Egypt on Al Jazera TV..

They are all asking themselves, why not us?

That much I can believe, but it is a big step from wondering why not us to actually doing something on a large scale especially in a totalitarian regime. I just seems a little too fast and a little too orchestrated to me.

Cheers

Ian

 

[JohnRoberts]

It is not strange at all.. in fact it could be predicted from the increasing difficulty for totalitarian governments to restrict information flow to citizens.  There are millions oppressed in that region and they see successful overthrow in Tunisia and then Egypt on Al Jazera TV..

They are all asking themselves, why not us?

That much I can believe, but it is a big step from wondering why not us to actually doing something on a large scale especially in a totalitarian regime. I just seems a little too fast and a little too orchestrated to me.

Cheers

Ian

While not widely reported in the western press there are ongoing protests all the time in many of these countries, often coordinated with other holiday celebrations to give them some cover for assembly in public, but the real trigger, IMO is seeing other similar oppressed populations appear to get relief from their dictators.

Iran just had another round of anti-government protests but it didn't break thought the noise floor of other current events in the region, not to mention Iran's coincidental sending of war ships through the Suez canal, that is IMO no coincidence at all. I never said they were stupid.

JR

PS: Administration just announced approval of a Nobel drilling permit in the Gulf that was pending since before the BP spill,,, so finally a glimmer of progress...  That and reports that Libyan rebels are allowing oil shipments from the producing region in Libya may change the math on the general oil supply disruption risk premium bid, ASSuming Oman remain stable and keeps pumping.   

 

[kambo]

All people everywhere deserve some of the freedom we take for granted.   

JR

that depends how you describe freedom.... some have more freedom than you think you have 

in US, almost everything you can/cant do is written... very simple example: if you buy an apartment, about 60% of your floors must be covered by carpet, if you have a neighbor downstairs... you dont have a simple freedom of walking bare_foot in your own apartments wooden floors  ;D

in Libya, you can even set a wet farming (rise) in your living room  ;D

in Turkey, if you have a noisy neighbor, you first politely warn them.. next time you call caps, at the end; court time ;D ;D ;D

 

[JohnRoberts]

All people everywhere deserve some of the freedom we take for granted.   

JR

that depends how you describe freedom.... some have more freedom than you think you have 

in US, almost everything you can/cant do is written... very simple example: if you buy an apartment, about 60% of your floors must be covered by carpet, if you have a neighbor downstairs... you dont have a simple freedom of walking bare_foot in your own apartments wooden floors  ;D

in Libya, you can even set a wet farming (rise) in your living room  ;D

in Turkey, if you have a noisy neighbor, you first politely warn them.. next time you call caps, at the end; court time ;D ;D ;D

Thanks for clearing that up...  ;D

I never heard that one about carpets being required by law, that sounds pretty lame...  those stupid Americans, there they go again...    It is good sport to make fun of us, but that one is a bit of a stretch... the truth is bad enough.

-------
One minor distinction, the way our constitution was written was to expressly define the authority or power of state and federal governments. All other power that isn't expressly granted to state or federal governments, reside in us the people, where all power originates.

We basically believe in the old British concept that a man's home is his castle, while I expect that king like power has deteriorated somewhat over the centuries (here as well as there).

I suspect your example of somebody buying an apartment, which is usually a conversion of former rental property, restricts those castle like rights somewhat by mutual agreement, based on a contractual purchase agreement, to protect the commercial value of other apartment buyers living below. More like a private agreement between two parties, buyer and seller, than some government legislation mandating how all private citizens must act. 

That said our lawmakers have been testing the constitutional limits of their powers, for a couple years now, and we expect our supreme court to review and rule on some of these new laws, that many (like I) believe are unconstitutional (basically the federal government exceeded their authority, in telling us what we "must" buy. They do not have that specific power). 

JR

PS: I am not arrogantly suggesting we have the only form of government that doesn't suck. The more I learn about Turkey's government the more I like about it... especially compared to some of your immediate neighbors.

 

[kambo]

btw, i am not having fun against you guy's ...
there was a Ottoman Empire, British Empire,  now The USA... there is  nothing wrong with it... everybody keep saying China will be the next, but i think they gonna miss their turn, just by some next high_tech world war in future  8)
most likely in middle_east, water related...

if US decides to bring democracy to Libya (US navy heading to Libya right now, btw), not because there is "OIL"
who dares to stop them  ;D

this carpet thing is not the law, but almost every apartment has that in their contract, when you buy
(not in the cheap steal construction 2 story ones )

 

[ruffrecords]

While not widely reported in the western press there are ongoing protests all the time in many of these countries, often coordinated with other holiday celebrations to give them some cover for assembly in public, but the real trigger, IMO is seeing other similar oppressed populations appear to get relief from their dictators.

I agree that is the trigger. What I have doubts about is a whole bunch of neighbouring countries being suddenly able to do a lot more than just protest. I suspect in years to come we will hear about some behind the scenes 'assistance'.

Cheers

Ian

 

[JohnRoberts]

btw, i am not having fun against you guy's ...
there was a Ottoman Empire, British Empire,  now The USA... there is  nothing wrong with it... everybody keep saying China will be the next, but i think they gonna miss their turn, just by some next high_tech world war in future  8)
most likely in middle_east, water related...

This could be an interesting topic to speculate about. I regret that we are viewed by others differently than we view ourselves, but that goes with the territory. The truth is probably somewhere between both views.

I am disappointed by lack of progress in non-lethal force multipliers (like taser or sound weapons). We seem stuck in the very old gunpowder based paradigm invented by the Chinese IIRC..(not that I was there to actually recall).  OTOH, what would you do with all those bad guys after you catch them alive? 

if US decides to bring democracy to Libya (US navy heading to Libya right now, btw), not because there is "OIL"
who dares to stop them  ;D

There is active discussion about imposing a no-fly zone, similar to Iraq to prevent Khadaffi from killing more of his own people from the air. We could do this without warships, but they would be useful to base humanitarian aid and support from.  We still have a score to settle with him about that Pan Am flight he blew up over Lockerbie. That was an American civilian plane with many Americans on board.

I grow weary of this suggestion that this is all a huge quid pro quo over oil... i wish we were getting some of that free oil from Iraq. No doubt the free sales of oil is of huge interest to the whole world, not just us. Almost everybody with few exceptions is stuck on that same teat, wether they admit it or not. (IIRC lots of Iraqi oil was smuggled illegally into Turkey).  We consume and waste a lot of oil, because our government hasn't jacked up the cost with excessive taxes (yet), and it is still relatively cheap...  If it keeps going up, there will be demand destruction, and we will freely chose to use less when that is in our personal interest and free choice. 

this carpet thing is not the law, but almost every apartment has that in their contract, when you buy
(not in the cheap steal construction 2 story ones )

And perhaps reasonable to protect the value and peace of mind, of the residents below. I have lived in apartments or condos when younger and some have rather poor noise insulation between living areas.

JR

PS: yes India and China are rising powers. We appear on a rather self destructive economic path. I am optimistic we can slow that decline, but I don't know about reversing it, as entitlements are hard to take away from people when they get used to them. 

 

[living sounds]

If the US decides to intervene in Lybia to prevent imminent bloodshed (and this does not massively destabilize the region for other reasons) I'm all for that. I'd prefer an effort by the whole international community, but if that doesn't happen a short-term US intervention doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. It seems like Gaddafi actually has some WMDs in the form of gas and might use them on his own people.


As for oil, it might soon be created out of thin air:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j1414q2u5w25h788/

The question is, of course, if it the yield derived from the method is economically feasible...

 

[kambo]

I regret that we are viewed by others differently than we view ourselves, but that goes with the territory. The truth is probably somewhere between both views.

i give you couple of example : when you try to park your car in US, and if happens to be there is a fire tap (red fire tap on street)
you guys just panic... OMG, there is a fire tap, i cant park here, and look for caps, incase they saw you  8)
if its illegal to park by a fire tap, just dont park there, no need to panic... US Caps are not as bad as you guys think they are...

then again, when you guys stop about 50ft behing the yellow school bus, for children to get_off/cross road safely, thats something amazing... i wish we were paying that much attention to our kids...

i bet you dont recall both occasions, as its part of your daily life... to me, its observation

I am disappointed by lack of progress in non-lethal force multipliers (like taser or sound weapons).

i wouldnt bet on it... depends on 8 figure $ income...

OTOH, what would you do with all those bad guys after you catch them alive?

what Bible says about killing

There is active discussion about imposing a no-fly zone, similar to Iraq to prevent Khadaffi from killing more of his own people from the air.

as i sad, USA's turn right now... last operation in Irak, was without any approval of any of the international organizations, but Bush's.
why there wasnt such worry to US, when thousands of muslims got wiped_out from planed in the middle of Europe (Bosnia)...

We still have a score to settle with him about that Pan Am flight he blew up over Lockerbie. That was an American civilian plane with many Americans on board.

we lost some 50-60 thousand people to terror. i know, it doesnt feel good...
but, what would you say, if Naive Americans start to kill, and they say,
pay back time  :-\

IIRC lots of Iraqi oil was smuggled illegally into Turkey

illegal diesel fuel (not oil) trade have been going on ever since 1923,

And perhaps reasonable to protect the value and peace of mind, of the residents below. I have lived in apartments or condos when younger and some have rather poor noise insulation between living areas.

makes sense, but, i dont understand the logic behind building crap houses... ( excuse my french here )
those cheap houses are not built, because US were having some economical difficulty... its just old fashioned building style from gold mind days...
now, they are still trying to keep the value of them by keeping you under control with written agreement 8)

PS: yes India and China are rising powers. We appear on a rather self destructive economic path. I am optimistic we can slow that decline, but I don't know about reversing it, as entitlements are hard to take away from people when they get used to them.  

to be honest, be dont worry a bit about China, nor India... thats US's job to worry about it  ;D ;D ;D

 

[JohnRoberts]

I regret that we are viewed by others differently than we view ourselves, but that goes with the territory. The truth is probably somewhere between both views.

i give you couple of example : when you try to park your car in US, and if happens to be there is a fire tap (red fire tap on street)
you guys just panic... OMG, there is a fire tap, i cant park here, and look for caps, incase they saw you  8)
if its illegal to park by a fire tap, just dont park there, no need to panic... US Caps are not as bad as you guys think they are...

then again, when you guys stop about 50ft behing the yellow school bus, for children to get_off/cross road safely, thats something amazing... i wish we were paying that much attention to our kids...

i bet you dont recall both occasions, as its part of your daily life... to me, its observation

I wish we cared enough about our children to let them fire substandard teachers.

I am disappointed by lack of progress in non-lethal force multipliers (like taser or sound weapons).

i wouldnt bet on it... depends on 8 figure $ income...

OTOH, what would you do with all those bad guys after you catch them alive?

what Bible says about killing

I think there has been enough killing in the name of religion, but that is still pretty popular in some cultures.

There is active discussion about imposing a no-fly zone, similar to Iraq to prevent Khadaffi from killing more of his own people from the air.

as i sad, USA's turn right now... last operation in Irak, was without any approval of any of the international organizations, but Bush's.

and UN general assembly IIRC

why there wasnt such worry to US, when thousands of muslims got wiped_out from planed in the middle of Europe (Bosnia)...

Again my recollection is history is a little fuzzy but NATO did intervene to try to reduce genocide in that region at least once..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NATO_bombing_campaign_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina
You surely should know the details better than i.

We value all life, while IMO suicide bombers should be allowed to blow themselves up in empty lots as long as they are alone and don't make too much of a mess.

We still have a score to settle with him about that Pan Am flight he blew up over Lockerbie. That was an American civilian plane with many Americans on board.

we lost some 50-60 thousand people to terror. i know, it doesnt feel good...
but, what would you say, if Naive Americans start to kill, and they say,
pay back time  :-\

We all have our history... There are some Armenians left with a low opinion of Turkey, and may feel 50k a modest number by comparison. Today the PKK seems to be hungry to grab a few headlines by stirring their fight up again.

IIRC lots of Iraqi oil was smuggled illegally into Turkey

illegal diesel fuel (not oil) trade have been going on ever since 1923,

And perhaps reasonable to protect the value and peace of mind, of the residents below. I have lived in apartments or condos when younger and some have rather poor noise insulation between living areas.

makes sense, but, i dont understand the logic behind building crap houses... ( excuse my french here )
those cheap houses are not built, because US were having some economical difficulty... its just old fashioned building style from gold mind days...
now, they are still trying to keep the value of them by keeping you under control with written agreement 8)

In a free market they can and will try to make a profit any way they can. I doubt we are unique in lesser quality housing offerings in densely populated areas. Hopefully we impose some restrictions on unhealthy living conditions. While i suspect some are a little too concerned about immoral living arrangements.  :

PS: yes India and China are rising powers. We appear on a rather self destructive economic path. I am optimistic we can slow that decline, but I don't know about reversing it, as entitlements are hard to take away from people when they get used to them.  

to be honest, be dont worry a bit about China, nor India... thats US's job to worry about it  ;D ;D ;D

Far too many throw stones, then relax under the security umbrella we provide, but like I said that comes with the territory. I would love to live in a world where we didn't need a sheriff, but that's not going to happen in my lifetime. 

JR

 

[kambo]

I wish we cared enough about our children to let them fire substandard teachers.

;D ;D ;D ;D we all have our wishes, one way or other....

I think there has been enough killing in the name of religion, but that is still pretty popular in some cultures.

do you mean Bush's Crusade  ,

Again my recollection is history is a little fuzzy but NATO did intervene to try to reduce genocide in that region at least once..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NATO_bombing_campaign_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina
You surely should know the details better than i.

oh, they did help, even Turkish Jets was on duty, and did some bombing, under NATO concept.
woman still got raped, in front of Nato soldiers (they were out numbered, and it wasnt their war)
it was a practical joke...

We value all life, while IMO suicide bombers should be allowed to blow themselves up in empty lots as long as they are alone and don't make too much of a mess.

i think we should educate them,
(they may start using sonic bombs i mean  ;D)

We all have our history... There are some Armenians left with a low opinion of Turkey, and may feel 50k a modest number by comparison. Today the PKK seems to be hungry to grab a few headlines by stirring their fight up again.

i meant, revenge is not a good idea. it turns out a never ending story...
justice...  what justice,
justice is a blind bitch.... only smells $

In a free market they can and will try to make a profit any way they can. I doubt we are unique in lesser quality housing offerings in densely populated areas. Hopefully we impose some restrictions on unhealthy living conditions. While i suspect some are a little too concerned about immoral living arrangements.  :

isnt it about time to end this free market crap in this planet...
when horrible sep_11 happened, do you know how much was the small bottle of water on the street, due free market crap?

Far too many throw stones, then relax under the security umbrella we provide, but like I said that comes with the territory. I would love to live in a world where we didn't need a sheriff, but that's not going to happen in my lifetime.  
JR

we never asked for security umbrella.
in governmental level they are doing everything to make us need this umbrella. $ figure  in the picture again....
since we joined, why should we worry then.
i have the biggest umbrella in the world  ;D

 

[JohnRoberts]

I think there has been enough killing in the name of religion, but that is still pretty popular in some cultures.

do you mean Bush's Crusade  ,

No..  as if that was the only or worst mistake we ever made...

Again my recollection is history is a little fuzzy but NATO did intervene to try to reduce genocide in that region at least once..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NATO_bombing_campaign_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina
You surely should know the details better than i.

oh, they did help, even Turkish Jets was on duty, and did some bombing, under NATO concept.
woman still got raped, in front of Nato soldiers (they were out numbered, and it wasnt their war)
it was a practical joke...

Genocide is still with us, unfortunately. Unless I misread the situation in the middle east there are populations that deny each other's right to even exist. That is not very conducive to peaceful coexistence.

We value all life, while IMO suicide bombers should be allowed to blow themselves up in empty lots as long as they are alone and don't make too much of a mess.

i think we should educate them,
(they may start using sonic bombs i mean  ;D)

Right now the youth are getting the wrong kind of education, curiously the terrorist leadership don't blow themselves up, but recruit others and brain wash them to make that ultimate sacrifice. 

We all have our history... There are some Armenians left with a low opinion of Turkey, and may feel 50k a modest number by comparison. Today the PKK seems to be hungry to grab a few headlines by stirring their fight up again.

i meant, revenge is not a good idea. it turns out a never ending story...
justice...  what justice,
justice is a blind bitch.... only smells $

Revenge for the sake of revenge is pointless, while bad behavior needs to be stopped. Gaddafi had definitely pulled in his horns internationally after seeing what happened to Saddam. Gaddafi was not on any short list for regime change, but now that his own people are rejecting him, it is pretty easy to pick sides. In the US popular sentiment is that we are moving too slow and not doing enough. Germany and France seem to be well ahead of us in condemning Gaddafi. In an interesting twist even China sided with the international community against Gaddafi in the UN, they usually don't pick sides. Since they had 30k citizens working in Libya (10k still inside) they had more to lose than we did, by taking a position.
----
FWIW, when I was a kid growing up in New Jersey, I used to walk past an "Old Armenian Home" each day on my way to school. It was less than a mile from my home and full of very old Armenians, probably resettled in the US decades earlier to escape the killing in their homeland. This was in the 1950's and these old home residents were very old as I recall back then. There was very little interaction with the community and I vaguely recall a sign in front of the building, with a one sentence description of their history, but this didn't really register with me as a kid growing up.

In a free market they can and will try to make a profit any way they can. I doubt we are unique in lesser quality housing offerings in densely populated areas. Hopefully we impose some restrictions on unhealthy living conditions. While i suspect some are a little too concerned about immoral living arrangements.  :

isnt it about time to end this free market crap in this planet...
when horrible sep_11 happened, do you know how much was the small bottle of water on the street, due free market crap?

The excesses of capitalism are already illegal, so this is a simple enforcement issue. The bad behavior of a few does not damn the entire system which has proven itself over time. We would need a much smarter government for central planning to work. This has already been tried and failed miserably multiple times, but some governments are doomed to repeat old mistakes.

It is interesting to see what images and lessons foreigners draw from the events of 9/11. There was much personal sacrifice made by volunteers and emergency responders trying to rescue some of the thousands killed that day. I never even heard that story about bottled water, while I've heard many exactly the opposite.  Note: I do not doubt, that incident may have happened, but it says as much about the reporter as the report if that is all they saw. We are not liked by many, that's life.

Far too many throw stones, then relax under the security umbrella we provide, but like I said that comes with the territory. I would love to live in a world where we didn't need a sheriff, but that's not going to happen in my lifetime.  
JR

we never asked for security umbrella.
in governmental level they are doing everything to make us need this umbrella. $ figure  in the picture again....
since we joined, why should we worry then.
i have the biggest umbrella in the world  ;D

OK with me if you want out, while it's hard to selectively do so. It looks like the EU is already having trouble digesting the fiscal behavior of the members it has.

--------

To get slightly back on topic, oil prices are going up at the moment ($102) which suggest more supply disruption is expected by the market (reports of explosions at an oil facility in Libya).

JR

 

[kambo]

you guys are not hated here in Turkey at all, you need to relax on that issue.

out of subject  ;D

i have been watching your drum tuner for last couple of years...
any improvement/development on tympani type percussion tuning..

 

[JohnRoberts]

you guys are not hated here in Turkey at all, you need to relax on that issue.

out of subject  ;D

i have been watching your drum tuner for last couple of years...
any improvement/development on tympani type percussion tuning..

topic veer warning...

I have a kettle drum in my lab, and the basic mechanism that allows me to measure and fine tune individual lugs works on tympani too.  Without writing a long article about drum physics, tympani have a different series (spacing) between resonances (because of their closed, curved back), so I would need to use a slightly different software algorithm, to scan the drum and determine optimal resonance for tuning. There are other physical issues related to supporting the tuner above the drumhead, etc.  My tuner makes sound to measure the drum tuning which can be undesirable for some tympani players who want to check fine tuning, in the middle of a performance.

In some ways the Tympani is simpler, since by design the several resonances work together to make only one effective note (so they are all the same note, in different octaves). In a interesting and useful quirk, the note we perceive from a tympani is actually lower than the real notes being made by the drum, because we read the closely spaced notes as harmonic overtones, and mentally imagine the missing (lower) fundamental.

In typical drums the resonances are not harmonically related so we don't get any phantom lower note phenomena, and instead multiple, non-harmonically related notes, simultaneously.

JR

PS: Yes I am working on a next generation model but it would be imprudent to talk about it too much before it is ready for prime time.   

 

[kambo]

FWIW, when I was a kid growing up in New Jersey, I used to walk past an "Old Armenian Home" each day on my way to school. It was less than a mile from my home and full of very old Armenians, probably resettled in the US decades earlier to escape the killing in their homeland. This was in the 1950's and these old home residents were very old as I recall back then. There was very little interaction with the community and I vaguely recall a sign in front of the building, with a one sentence description of their history, but this didn't really register with me as a kid growing up.

this is more about historic documents, i have some, but i dont know it would be a fair dialog...  i would only say,
they founded graveyard, which everybody believed
Armenians were buried there, but turned out they were Turkish...

It is interesting to see what images and lessons foreigners draw from the events of 9/11. There was much personal sacrifice made by volunteers and emergency responders trying to rescue some of the thousands killed that day. I never even heard that story about bottled water, while I've heard many exactly the opposite.  Note: I do not doubt, that incident may have happened, but it says as much about the reporter as the report if that is all they saw. We are not liked by many, that's life.

i was trying to point out capitalism can be ruthless on the street... total respect to rest....

OK with me if you want out, while it's hard to selectively do so. It looks like the EU is already having trouble digesting the fiscal behavior of the members it has.

its too sunny to leave  ;D ;D ;D , and rain clouds are on horizon....

To get slightly back on topic, oil prices are going up at the moment ($102) which suggest more supply disruption is expected by the market (reports of explosions at an oil facility in Libya).
JR

you are already paying 1/2 of what i pay to fill my car up, here ...


ps: And thanks for the explanation for the drum tuner