LGTBQ outrage reaches fever pitch over double murder

[hodad]

who was having problems in whatever traditional school has become,

Yes, I'm not going to argue there. Guess what? Teachers have problems with schools as well. Teachers did not make schools what they are now--you'd do better to look at textbook companies, politicians(local and national), community business leaders, and rich jackasses who fund think tanks, lobbyist groups, and other initiatives. "School choice" talking points come largely from the right wing conservatives whose rhetoric may sound pro-school and pro-kid, but whose actions do more to harm schools and education than to help them.

re "Don't say gay:" nobody's "probing" young kids about their sexuality. That's just right-wing fearmongering. But there are discussions about families in the early grades--and gay marriage is currently legal in this country, and no teacher should be worried about job repercussions from a discussion that might follow from a kid talking about his 2 mommies or 2 daddies. And with such a poorly written law (and really, if "don't say gay" was meant for what you say it is, then it is a solution searching for a nonexistent problem), there is far more potential for harm being caused by the law than harm actually being prevented by the law.

I've said it before & will repeat: these anti-gay & anti-CRT laws are about fearmongering and scapegoating meant to stir up the GOP base. Unfortunately, these are real laws that will do real damage to teachers, kids, parents, and to our public education system.

 

[fazer]

Your right. Talk about conflict of interest. But money is king.
Lots of sides to the story

Meet the new domestic terrorist- Parents

AG Garland’s son-in-law’s education company supports critical race theory

The education company co-founded by Attorney General Merrick Garland’s son-in-law is facing fresh scrutiny after it was revealed the company supports critical race theory curricula while servicing 23,000 schools in the nation, costing tax payers hundreds of thousands of dollars — while Garland cracks down on opposition to the ideology.

Garland has been under fire this past week for his Oct. 4 memo in which he tasked the FBI with investigating an alleged recent spike in violence against school staff amid backlash to CRT being injected into school curricula, though Garland’s memo did not specify what those acts were.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yes, I'm not going to argue there. Guess what? Teachers have problems with schools as well. Teachers did not make schools what they are now--you'd do better to look at textbook companies, politicians(local and national), community business leaders, and rich jackasses who fund think tanks, lobbyist groups, and other initiatives. "School choice" talking points come largely from the right wing conservatives whose rhetoric may sound pro-school and pro-kid, but whose actions do more to harm schools and education than to help them.

you forgot the part that powerful teachers unions play in public education

re "Don't say gay:" nobody's "probing" young kids about their sexuality. That's just right-wing fearmongering. But there are discussions about families in the early grades--and gay marriage is currently legal in this country, and no teacher should be worried about job repercussions from a discussion that might follow from a kid talking about his 2 mommies or 2 daddies. And with such a poorly written law (and really, if "don't say gay" was meant for what you say it is, then it is a solution searching for a nonexistent problem), there is far more potential for harm being caused by the law than harm actually being prevented by the law.

The "don't say gay" political branding is to make it divisive for low information media consumers.

From a distance it looks like restoring parental rights to have some control over their children's curriculum. Both sides are exaggerating what this is about.

A school district may not encourage classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in primary grade levels or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students.”
===
Further, it explicitly states that parents “may bring an action against a school district to obtain a declaratory judgement that a school district procedure or practice violates this paragraph and seek injunctive relief. A court may award damages and shall award reasonable attorney fees and court costs to a parent who receives declaratory or injunctive relief”.

My speculation it that the injunctive relief and damages is what bothers some. It looks like returning power to parents to steer their children's educations.

I've said it before & will repeat: these anti-gay & anti-CRT laws are about fearmongering and scapegoating meant to stir up the GOP base.

Unless you slept through the recent VA election, parents have started paying attention to their children's school curriculums. Republicans would be stupid to not try to satisfy this new voting block.

Unfortunately, these are real laws that will do real damage to teachers, kids, parents, and to our public education system.

opinions vary. Criticism of public education is nothing new but has become even more politicized with teachers unions openly supporting the left. Parents being exposed to see what was going on inside classrooms because of remote learning, has caused the unintended consequence of them fighting to regain control over their children's education.

I can't predict the future but expect education to be high on the list for mid term campaign reform promises.

JR

 

[fazer]

The question is will the republicans actually do something about these problems as well as anything about the inflation debt bubble or will they do the same thing the Dems did. “We’re not him”

 

[ruffrecords]

Yes, perish the thought that someone on the right be criticized for attacks on LGBT folks. Do you even listen to yourself? Cancel culture my azz--all the right wants is the freedom to be d!ckheads, azzholes and bigots with impunity. Seriously, if you want cancel culture, check out your CRT Comrades and your Don't Say Gay Amigos. That's the true cancel culture.

I think the more important issue is who controls the dialogue. In the past, it has been governments who do this and they also set the rules. With the advent of the internet, the dialogue seems to be controlled by the most vociferous although the governments still set the rules. But either way, it is only the expression of those who create it. Back at the beginning of the 20th centrury, German culture was decided by the Kaiser and LGBT was repressed. After WW1 there was a lot more liberty. It is said in the 1920s about 85,000 lesbians lived in Berlin alone. Less than 20 years later, Hilter was sending LGBT to concentration camps. After WW2 west Germany was relatively libertine whilst east Germany was repressed on pretty much all levels. And so it goes on. The only constant is change. When all is said and done, there is no more or less repression overall now than in the past. All that changes is the dialogue and who creates it.

Cheers

Ian

 

[living sounds]

I think the more important issue is who controls the dialogue. In the past, it has been governments who do this and they also set the rules. With the advent of the internet, the dialogue seems to be controlled by the most vociferous although the governments still set the rules. But either way, it is only the expression of those who create it. Back at the beginning of the 20th centrury, German culture was decided by the Kaiser and LGBT was repressed. After WW1 there was a lot more liberty. It is said in the 1920s about 85,000 lesbians lived in Berlin alone. Less than 20 years later, Hilter was sending LGBT to concentration camps. After WW2 west Germany was relatively libertine whilst east Germany was repressed on pretty much all levels. And so it goes on. The only constant is change. When all is said and done, there is no more or less repression overall now than in the past. All that changes is the dialogue and who creates it.

Cheers

Ian

There is far less repression now in the western industrialized countries than in the past. There is a clear long-term arc of protecting the individual from society just as these countries have increasingly replaced unscientific religion-based morality with a harm-reduction based liberal legal framework.

We don't yet know if this will hold, but the centuries long trendline is very obvious.

 

[Matador]

The "don't say gay" political branding is to make it divisive for low information media consumers.

Indeed, much like "open southern border".

The Florida bill is a solution in search of a problem, and is a virtue signal so bright that it could be seen with the naked eye from the Andromeda galaxy. There is no CRT curricula outside of some advanced college courses, and to the extent there is any discussions so feared by the right they are rare and could be handled with existing rules.

The language of what defines sexual orientation or gender identity is so vague as to be meaningless. We'll see the thin veneer fall away, when someone sues the school district for discussing the fact that a teacher is married, or that a teacher goes by "Mr Smith", because the Mr is assigning gender identity, and it's making us very uncomfortable! What if the teacher posts a picture of herself and her husband water skiing on vacation? Isn't this injecting gender roles into the classroom?

 

[hodad]

you forgot the part that powerful teachers unions play in public education

Not in my state, or your state, or most of the rest of the Southeast. In Georgia, which is a right to work state of course, there are "professional associations," not unions, and they are relatively toothless. The reason most teachers join them is so that they have a lawyer to fight for them if they have a job dispute with their employer. And at most, no more than half of Georgia teachers are members.

The whole "evil teachers' unions" line is old, and it's tired. And considering that in large swaths of this country teachers' unions either don't exist or are completely toothless, I'd say your estimation of the power they wield is grossly overstated.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Not in my state, or your state, or most of the rest of the Southeast. In Georgia, which is a right to work state of course, there are "professional associations," not unions, and they are relatively toothless. The reason most teachers join them is so that they have a lawyer to fight for them if they have a job dispute with their employer. And at most, no more than half of Georgia teachers are members.

The whole "evil teachers' unions" line is old, and it's tired. And considering that in large swaths of this country teachers' unions either don't exist or are completely toothless, I'd say your estimation of the power they wield is grossly overstated.

keep digging.... not local, national

Weingarten's comment follows a request from the NSBA that President Biden use "federal law enforcement and other assistance to deal with the growing number of threats and violence and acts of intimidation occurring across the nation."

"America's public schools and its education leaders are under immediate threat," the letter states.

On Tuesday, a memo from Attorney General Merrick Garland showed that he has instructed the FBI US Attorney's Offices to meet with law enforcement leaders across the country over the next month "to discuss strategies for addressing this disturbing trend."

Now i feel bad because I actually posted here that I though Garland should get a vote for SCOTUS (in fact I was worried that President Hillary Clinton would appoint someone worse. In hindsight it appear AG Garland is worse than I thought.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Indeed, much like "open southern border".

Do you deny the fact that there is no control of much of the southern border? That March 2022 saw 221k illegal immigrants apprehended and tens of thousands not caught? That Fentanyl deaths are way up and that most if it crosses this very same border? Please.

The Florida bill is a solution in search of a problem, and is a virtue signal so bright that it could be seen with the naked eye from the Andromeda galaxy. There is no CRT curricula outside of some advanced college courses, and to the extent there is any discussions so feared by the right they are rare and could be handled with existing rules.

The problem is real. You can deny it all you want, but hundreds of videos from classrooms tell a different story.

The language of what defines sexual orientation or gender identity is so vague as to be meaningless. We'll see the thin veneer fall away, when someone sues the school district for discussing the fact that a teacher is married, or that a teacher goes by "Mr Smith", because the Mr is assigning gender identity, and it's making us very uncomfortable! What if the teacher posts a picture of herself and her husband water skiing on vacation? Isn't this injecting gender roles into the classroom?

Gender roles based on actual science and reproductive evolution are real. Gender dysphoria is also real. Some people are gay. But 20%+ of teens are not gay/transgender. Public schools aren't tasked with teaching any of this and shouldn't be. It's no surprise that homeschooling is surging.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Not in my state, or your state, or most of the rest of the Southeast. In Georgia, which is a right to work state of course, there are "professional associations," not unions, and they are relatively toothless. The reason most teachers join them is so that they have a lawyer to fight for them if they have a job dispute with their employer. And at most, no more than half of Georgia teachers are members.

The whole "evil teachers' unions" line is old, and it's tired. And considering that in large swaths of this country teachers' unions either don't exist or are completely toothless, I'd say your estimation of the power they wield is grossly overstated.

As an escaped former 29 year resident of California I beg to differ. Teacher's unions end up protecting the worst teachers from being fired. Look how far California's public school ratings have fallen in the past 40-50 years. And as John points out, these powerful unions have major influence in one party at the national level. I am glad to be in a right to work state. Forced union membership is anti-liberty.

 

[living sounds]

Gender roles based on actual science and reproductive evolution are real. Gender dysphoria is also real. Some people are gay. But 20%+ of teens are not gay/transgender. Public schools aren't tasked with teaching any of this and shouldn't be. It's no surprise that homeschooling is surging.

Agree with sentence 1-3. But: Teaching in schools is not the reasons kids/teens follow these trends. It's an internet based cultural phenomenom.

The idea is that schools adress these issues before young people get miseducated online.

Conservatives have tried this BS cancel culture (of reality) / social engineering in a reverse way during the Bush years with abstinence-only sex education. The result was many more teen pregnancies (and probably as a consequence abortions). This is exactly the unintended consequences trap that many people on the right gleefully like to warn about.

This hysteria on the right goes against the core American value of pragmatism. Deal with a problem in a way that actually lessons it. Teach kids the facts. There is no risk of anyone becoming gay by being educated about the facts regarding sexual orientation. Nature doesn't work that way.

BTW, we have the same discussion here in Germany, but our hardcore right wing at this time thankfully is much smaller, as is the alternative left nutbase.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Agree with sentence 1-3. But: Teaching in schools is not the reasons kids/teens follow these trends. It's an internet based cultural phenomenom.

The idea is that schools adress these issues before young people get miseducated online.

Conservatives have tried this BS cancel culture (of reality) / social engineering in a reverse way during the Bush years with abstinence-only sex education. The result was many more teen pregnancies (and probably as a consequence abortions). This is exactly the unintended consequences trap that many people on the right gleefully like to warn about.

This hysteria on the right goes against the core American value of pragmatism. Deal with a problem in a way that actually lessons it. Teach kids the facts. There is no risk of anyone becoming gay by being educated about the facts regarding sexual orientation. Nature doesn't work that way.

BTW, we have the same discussion here in Germany, but our hardcore right wing at this time thankfully is much smaller, as is the alternative left nutbase.

I did not support Bush. Neo-cons made a different sort of mess. But equating delaying basic sex-ed or pushing abstinence to the current trend here is disingenuous at best. There's plenty of risk of psychological damage to teens by confusing them just when hormones kick in and really change both their bodies and their brains.

Again, I'm not "right wing." I am for small government and individual liberty, not centralized control, tyranny of the majority, and collectivism. I'm anti-authoritarian regardless of whether the tyrant is leftist or right.

Yes to pragmatism. No to thinking with your feelings and pretending that it's rational.

 

[Matador]

Do you deny the fact that there is no control of much of the southern border?

It doesn't matter what I think: it's illustrative that the "open southern border" language mysteriously stopped on January 20, 2017, and then magically reappeared on January 20, 2021.

I wonder what happened?

The problem is real.

Opinions vary, I guess.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

It doesn't matter what I think: it's illustrative that the "open southern border" language mysteriously stopped on January 20, 2017, and then magically reappeared on January 20, 2021.

I wonder what happened?

In 2017 a President was inaugurated who actually discouraged illegal crossings, supported customs and border patrol, and acted on his promise to build a physical barrier where there was none. Compare that to promises and actions by Biden/Harris and the different results are apparent. That you refuse to acknowledge basic facts is troubling. I'd encourage you to open your mind to new sources of information.

Opinions vary, I guess.

Ability to reason varies, too, apparently.

 

[Matador]

Ability to reason varies, too, apparently.

On that I am in complete agreement.

 

[hodad]

Teacher's unions end up protecting the worst teachers from being fired.

Maybe in California, I don't know. We ain't got no teachers' unions down here in the South. We do have police unions, though, and they definitely protect the bad apples.

psychological damage to teens by confusing them just when hormones kick in

Think about all the damage done to gay kids (or even kids with mixed feelings about their sexuality) by a curriculum that taught that only heterosexuality is acceptable--certainly the world I grew up in, and probably you too. I also agree with living sounds that the bulk of the teen drama associated with gender and sexuality comes from social media and not from anything taught in schools. And I say this as the father of a kid who had a lot of high school friends who were gay/lesbian/trans or struggling with gender dysphoria. If, as has been posited by experts, sexuality is a spectrum rather than binary (or trinary even), then it's likely normal for a lot of kids to have a certain amount of confusion about their sexuality (gender dysphoria is something I know less about, so I'll leave that aside.) I don't think schools are to blame for this at all, and if they address these matters in a responsible and rational way, they may even be able to alleviate some of the anxiety, stress, and potential psychological trauma.

 

[living sounds]

There's plenty of risk of psychological damage to teens by confusing them just when hormones kick in and really change both their bodies and their brains.

Yes, but the confusion is coming from social media. Education can counter that.

 

[crazydoc]

As an escaped former 29 year resident of California I beg to differ.

Looks like a win-win situation. You're happier there, and we're happier here.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I don't disagree that past policies hurt some children who were homosexual. But to pretend that this is a huge problem today is ridiculous. Bullying in general is always a problem and social media, among its many negative aspects, amplifies both the bully and the effects of bullying.

Activist school teachers have no business injecting themselves into medical, psychological, and/or sexual matters of their students. If you want to talk about dangerous power dynamics you ought to see this one. There have already been many cases of teachers secretly conspiring behind parents' backs to influence their children into the "there are 112 genders" camp. First, it isn't their job. Second, it is immoral.