LGTBQ outrage reaches fever pitch over double murder

[AnalogPackrat]

For REGULAR math then. Apparently the average to dumb kids are the ones who get the Republican garbage.

Admit you were wrong. Three publishers have been green-lighted to provide math textbooks in FL, not one as you claimed. Math is math. It shouldn't be infused with social studies concepts or the new racism of "equity" or "indigenous ways of knowing." Math is as diverse as humanity already, is it not?

Youngkin (and the Carlyle Group) didn't do anything but acquire a company. And then exploited their connections to get Ron DoucheSantis to buy their math program. That's really doing something. Useful is not what I'd call it. Parasitic maybe.

You missed my point in your anger. Youngkin was employed in the private sector for 25 years where he was successful. Whether you like what he did with his career is irrelevant. Meanwhile we have others (on both sides of the aisle) who have made a career of "public service" without having any life experience outside government. This is not good.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I wonder what exactly is meant by "many cases"? How prevalent do you think this really is? As in, with millions of instruction hours taught each year in elementary grades, what percentage is spent on "112 gender identity" instruction?

If your kid was negatively affected how would you feel? Also, why aren't we employing the "if it saves just one life it's worth doing" argument to this case?

My wife, my mother, and many on her side of the family were all elementary teachers. A quick poll amongst their 200+ years collective experience: one remembers the subject of two dads ONCE (in second grade). And the entire interaction was essentially, "Jason has two Dads. Some families are different from yours and that's ok." The kids didn't erupt into tears, and didn't spray-paint their hair in rainbow colors in LGBTQ solidarity. This idea that elementary teachers, en masse, are Clockwork Orange'ing little kids eyes open to indoctrinate them with dozens of pronouns is approaching batshit territory.

That's not what we're discussing here and you know it. Acknowledging single parent or gay parent families is not the same as pushing kids into believing they are something they aren't. This is wrong. It isn't the job of public school teachers.

Now, has it ever happened? I'm sure it has. But if the argument is that we need legislation changes (coming from the "small government" side no less) based on some arbitrary percentage of "bad actors", backed by evil unions, then we need to start a police reform thread to go along with it, and then explain why it's appropriate here and not there.

Again, if it saves one life we must act! Right? Or if not one, what is your proposed threshold for action?

 

[hodad]

This is wrong. It isn't the job of public school teachers.

And while I can't speak to what Ian described (it was not in the US, not a teacher either), teachers just aren't doing that. It's really that simple. Unfortunately, you are buying into a solid gold line of BS. Can you actually give an example of a teacher "sexually grooming" (because that's the rhetoric the right is using, I will use the same here) elementary school kids?

Math is math. It shouldn't be infused with social studies concepts or the new racism of "equity" or "indigenous ways of knowing."

What do bored kids say in math class? "When will I ever use this in real life?" That's a question a lot of newer math books have been trying to answer--you give kids real-life examples of a use of math. It helps them relate. And the notion of incorporating other subjects into the ostensible subject of a class is nothing new. My favorite grammar textbook (revised repeatedly over decades) has been doing exactly that since at least the 1950s.

You missed my point in your anger.

I appreciate you letting me know how I was feeling. You once again were incorrect, just as you were incorrect in your assumption (and insistence) that you knew what news shows I watch. While I don't always agree with JR, his oft-repeated points about mindreading and ASSuming seem to fit here.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

And while I can't speak to what Ian described (it was not in the US, not a teacher either), teachers just aren't doing that. It's really that simple. Unfortunately, you are buying into a solid gold line of BS. Can you actually give an example of a teacher "sexually grooming" (because that's the rhetoric the right is using, I will use the same here) elementary school kids?

Nope. Never happens.

What do bored kids say in math class? "When will I ever use this in real life?" That's a question a lot of newer math books have been trying to answer--you give kids real-life examples of a use of math. It helps them relate. And the notion of incorporating other subjects into the ostensible subject of a class is nothing new. My favorite grammar textbook (revised repeatedly over decades) has been doing exactly that since at least the 1950s.

"Word problems" as we called them in the 70s-80s are nothing new. Been around since at least the 50s when my parents were in school. Nothing wrong with providing actual applied math examples. But teaching that "western" math is racist--that has no place in public school (maybe you recall the origins of algebra). Same with other similar recent "teaching" that has nothing to do with math (or science). Stop making excuses for these terrible ideas.

I appreciate you letting me know how I was feeling. You once again were incorrect, just as you were incorrect in your assumption (and insistence) that you knew what news shows I watch. While I don't always agree with JR, his oft-repeated points about mindreading and ASSuming seem to fit here.

When you emit a stream of over-generalized rhetoric sprinkled liberally with actual epithets it does tend to indicate the irrationality of an angry person.

 

[living sounds]

One little detail in the Florida textbook kerfuffle: Florida is now going with exactly one textbook firm for all K-5 math books. Who's the big winner here?

The Carlyle Group, a global investment firm, acquired Accelerate Learning on Dec. 20, 2018, according to the firm's website.

During that time, Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin was the co-CEO of the firm. After 25 years with the company, Youngkin resigned in 2020 to run for office in Virginia.

Oh, I see. It's really about rich Republican douchebags greasing the Republican crazy-skids in order to make some very quick inroads in the educational marketplace. If you don't know who the sucker at the poker table is....

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/n...ublisher-allowed-k-5-math-classes/7357965001/

Where do I remember that company from... oh yes, right:

 

[living sounds]

I have personal experience of a school in the UK, perhaps inadvertently, attempting to persuade teenagers to not only question their sexuality but to take steps to alter it. My granddaughter at age 14 had some serious anger issues due to her abandonment my her father and the attitude of his parents. SHe was offered counselling at school which she accepted. However, the counsellor immediately decided her anger was based in her sexuality and actively persuaded her she should really be a boy. She changed her name, cut her hair short and wore boys clothes. The school seemed to act as if this was normal. Her mother was understandably very worried but I told her I thought it was just a typical teenage phase and that she would grow out of it. The situation grew more serious when my granddaughter began to talk openly about surgery. Fortunately, a few months later she discovered boys, her anger subsided and she got herself a boyfriend. She is now 17 and a happy and well adjusted young woman.

Cheers

Ian

Yes, idiots do stupid things. People do. Frequently. Stupid ideas wax and wane and get replaced by other stupid ideas. Like Freudianism. Or faith healers. Or supressed memories of past lives. Or multiple-personality disorder. And don't get me started on religion...

And as a reaction there are moral panics that blow many things way out of proportion. The (very biased, I am sure) Wikipedia gives a good rundown:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic
BTW, I am very annoyed by the current zeitgeist BS we get bombarded with myself. From all sides. The counsellor in your example (not a teacher, BTW, and it had nothing to do with a curreculum from what I understand) would have commited malpractice and should get fired, if it can be proven. End of story.

Teachers should base the education they give on facts. Don't you think it's best to simply teach kids those? That sexuality falls on a spectrum, that male and female chromosomes exist and differences in behaviour are real and that it's OK to be who you turn out to be? Isn't that better than letting them find stupid ideas online first that are harder to get rid of then?

 

[hodad]

Stop making excuses for these terrible ideas.

You know, I could say the same to you. The problem with your position is not necessarily your position, but it's all the people who are on the same tack who have an agenda far more hostile than what you've expressed. From what you've said, I'm guessing that you're okay with gay marriage, and the fact that same-sex couples (moms and dads) may be discussed among young kids. And I'm guessing you're okay with acknowledging racism in America's history--whether it's slavery, Jim Crow, and lynchings, or the frequent violations of treaties with Native Americans. That seems to be what you're claiming, but I could be wrong.

But you're siding with people who are not remotely okay with any of that, and people who actively stoke bigotry and prejudice. Frankly, if you're okay with teaching about America's history of racism, what issue should you have with a math problem that revolves around redlining? Redlining is something that happened in US history--facts. So what's wrong with a math problem about it? (I don't know for sure you object, but I do know that was an example in the Florida CRT panic.) There are folks who share your general position who are far more extreme than you are. Is that really what you want to support?

Teachers should base the education they give on facts. Don't you think it's best to simply teach kids those? That sexuality falls on a spectrum, that male and female chromosomes exist and differences in behaviour are real and that it's OK to be who you turn out to be? Isn't that better than letting them find stupid ideas online first that are harder to get rid of then?

All of this. Well said.

(EDIT: Maybe you should be more worried about the people you're aligning yourself with than all those terrible educators:
Branson men, both 34, describe Kanakuk sex abuse, call for camp to be held accountable )

 

[scott2000]

(EDIT: Maybe you should be more worried about the people you're aligning yourself with than all those terrible educators:

really?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

You know, I could say the same to you.

Which ideas that I've supported are terrible in your opinion?

The problem with your position is not necessarily your position, but it's all the people who are on the same tack who have an agenda far more hostile than what you've expressed.

What kind of lame guilt-by-association fallacy are you trying to pull here? This is exactly the kind of garbage "logic" that has pushed me away from the people who identify as "Democrats." You can't defend your position so you attack me or try to associate me with people you dislike. You're going to have to do a lot better than that.

From what you've said, I'm guessing that you're okay with gay marriage, and the fact that same-sex couples (moms and dads) may be discussed among young kids.

I'm fine with adults doing what they want with other consenting adults. I'm OK with gay marriage--supported that effort in CA while I was there. My opinion on adoption by same-sex couples is evolving as I gather more information. I think the traditional nuclear family provides the best outcomes for the vast majority of children.

And I'm guessing you're okay with acknowledging racism in America's history--whether it's slavery, Jim Crow, and lynchings, or the frequent violations of treaties with Native Americans. That seems to be what you're claiming, but I could be wrong.

Yes, humans have done many bad things in our history, often to each other. Sometimes it was driven by race, other times by culture, other times for other reasons. What I don't condone is trying to blame people alive today for actions done and decisions made by other people in history, even their ancestors. I believe in individual liberty and personal responsibility/accountability which are an inseparable dual in my opinion. I don't believe in collectivism, whether as a way to reward people or punish them. I certainly don't believe that sound ideas are tainted by the human foibles of their "discoverers." Math is not racist because some former mathematicians may have been. The United States Constitution is not garbage because the men who conceived and fought for it were flawed humans. A good idea is a good idea.

But you're siding with people who are not remotely okay with any of that, and people who actively stoke bigotry and prejudice. Frankly, if you're okay with teaching about America's history of racism, what issue should you have with a math problem that revolves around redlining? Redlining is something that happened in US history--facts. So what's wrong with a math problem about it? (I don't know for sure you object, but I do know that was an example in the Florida CRT panic.) There are folks who share your general position who are far more extreme than you are. Is that really what you want to support?

Again, what are you talking about? I don't associate with bigots or racists. None of the people I interact with who are what you would call "right wing" are any of the things you list. My wife is an immigrant from a poor country. I went through the process with her. She is now a proud American and a nurse. You would call her a "person of color" but she would find that offensive because who she is has nothing to do with how she looks. Many of my friends and several of my family members are in mixed race marriages. They feel the same way.

As an American who started school in the South in 1972, shortly after integration, and who has witnessed incredible progress in my lifetime on every front (race relations, science, engineering, music, art) I find it patently offensive that some people are now sowing the seeds of division again by focusing on outward appearance over the real person inside. Martin Luther King Jr.'s words “I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" resonate with me as much as Jefferson's in the Declaration of Independence "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

All of this. Well said.

(EDIT: Maybe you should be more worried about the people you're aligning yourself with than all those terrible educators:
Branson men, both 34, describe Kanakuk sex abuse, call for camp to be held accountable )

I don't know why you think I am aligned with these people. I think young children should not be subjected to discussions about sexuality in school, much less suffer any abuse of any type. I would prefer anyone who perpetrates such crimes be permanently removed from society, by death if necessary.

 

[boji]

I don't know why you think I am aligned with these people.

Because it's an effective tactic. Against the less principled, or conflict avoidant, it often forces a retreat. The person who deployed the association thinks they've won the argument and the dopamine hit becomes hard to resist the next go-round. I can sympathize with that...also having a difficult time recovering from online dopamine addiction.

edit: The disagreements about what our kids should be taught at school is more than a case of moral panic, which is an example of one movie trying to explain the other movie by poking holes in it. Yet the two-movies problem persists because both sides have valid arguments that align with personal experience. We tend to devalue, or outright divert ourselves away from integrating experiences that improve some aspect of an opposition's argument. Ie, we only get better at understanding things that feel right to us - steered by our trusted ingroup info sources. The whataboutisms soon replenish...

 

[hodad]

Because it's an effective tactic. Against the less principled, or conflict avoidant, it often forces a retreat. The person who deployed the association thinks they've won the argument and the dopamine hit becomes hard to resist the next go-round.

Thank you for your analysis.

No. Quite simply, no.

The problem with taking a stance like AP's is that he is politically aligning himself with people who may not take as relatively moderate a stance on things as he says he does. There are plenty of voices pushing anti-CRT as well as "Don't Say Gay" style legislation who have no tolerance for gay marriage. I read one influential voice recently who said teachers should be fired for "coming out" to students as gay. Coming out? Seriously? These are people who openly live their lives as who they are, have same-sex marriages that are legally acknowledged--what are they "coming out" from?

Look at the book banning efforts in Texas and other states, look at DeSantis's textbook-banning moves--over what? 3 pages in a 500 page math book? Over discussions of redlining, or empathy toward fellow students? AP is not a leader in this movement, but judging from his comments here I'd say he's an ardent follower. Does he know whom he's following and what they're saying? Does he realize that their positions actually contradict positions he's stated here?

That's where my problem lies. Although I do think AP speaks largely from ignorance when he attacks schools, I'm more concerned that the legislation and politicians he is driven to support are far more extreme than he himself is.

thinks they've won the argument

I'm not deluded enough to think an argument is "won" when discussing with AP, or JR, or our anti-vaxx crew.

 

[hodad]

I find it patently offensive that some people are now sowing the seeds of division again by focusing on outward appearance over the real person inside

Yes, nothing like that has ever happened in the history of this country! This is an outrage! Oh, wait...you mean black people in America go through this on a daily basis? It can't be! No one I know is racist!

I believe in individual liberty and personal responsibility/accountability

The United States Constitution is not garbage

It's so cute when folks who go on about individual liberty defend the Constitution. Apparently they skipped the preamble--"provide for the common defense," "promote the general welfare" ring any bells? The Founders were well aware that we're all in this together--it'd be nice to see a little more appreciation of that little detail from folks on a certain side of the argument.

As an American who started school in the South in 1972,

Yeah, I was there too. And I'm still here. I'm well aware things have changed(though not to the point that racism and prejudice are even remotely close to disappearing), but the simple fact of the matter is that people on the right are seeking to roll back those changes. Look at Desantis's new redistricting map (and it is indeed his). It cancels a black majority Congressional district, weakening minority representation in Congress. That is not the sort of "progress" I think we're looking to see. Vaguely worded laws about discussions of sexuality leave open the door (and I'd say intentionally) for these laws to be abused, and used as a tool to "root out" gay teachers, or at the very least put them back in the closet during school hours. Again, not the sort of "progress" that I think helps anyone. And the same for the anti-"CRT" laws. They have the potential to deny a voice to a minority point of view--ie, race issues can only be discussed to an extent and in a manner that is acceptable to white people. One more time, not the "progress" I think we should be looking for.

 

[living sounds]

I think the issue was picked up by political operatives who know how to exploit people's fears, scapegoat and distract. It's a great trigger for the anxieties of a certain subset of the population. It's a perfect issue to open up rifts within the Democratic party.

It's not a widespread actual problem, but it energizes the foam-at-the-mouth right wing base and will probably once again make a lot of people vote against their own interests (or not vote at all).

It's that simple. And that sad.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Thank you for your analysis.

No. Quite simply, no.

You aren't in a position of authority on these discussions.

The problem with taking a stance like AP's is that he is politically aligning himself with people who may not take as relatively moderate a stance on things as he says he does. There are plenty of voices pushing anti-CRT as well as "Don't Say Gay" style legislation who have no tolerance for gay marriage. I read one influential voice recently who said teachers should be fired for "coming out" to students as gay. Coming out? Seriously? These are people who openly live their lives as who they are, have same-sex marriages that are legally acknowledged--what are they "coming out" from?

Again with the guilt-by-association fallacy. I clearly stated MY opinions, views, and reasoning. I don't believe teachers should be proactively discussing their own sexuality in the classroom--especially in elementary school. I doubt I'm the only one with these opinions.

Look at the book banning efforts in Texas and other states, look at DeSantis's textbook-banning moves--over what? 3 pages in a 500 page math book? Over discussions of redlining, or empathy toward fellow students? AP is not a leader in this movement, but judging from his comments here I'd say he's an ardent follower. Does he know whom he's following and what they're saying? Does he realize that their positions actually contradict positions he's stated here?

Again with the painting with a broad brush and trying to taint my views with those of other people. Grow up, man. This is getting old. I am not a leader nor a follower. Like many Americans (and Earthlings in general), I form my own opinions from my experience, from observations, from discussions with those who agree and those who disagree with me, from reading books, and from watching some news (often while holding my nose). I have changed my mind about certain things over the past decade or so based on more direct experience and observation followed by research and a lot of discussion. I don't get the feeling you have or ever will change your view on anything. You are entrenched.

That's where my problem lies. Although I do think AP speaks largely from ignorance when he attacks schools, I'm more concerned that the legislation and politicians he is driven to support are far more extreme than he himself is.

In your esteemed opinion I am ignorant. I am not attacking schools. I benefited immensely from my 12 years in public school. Much of the learning was outside the classroom and some of it was painfully acquired, but I wouldn't want to have missed any of it. I want all children to have a good start in life with a good basic education like I got. What I don't want is a lot of politically motivated indoctrination to displace the fundamentals of reading, writing, mathematics, science, art, music, history, and civics. It really is that simple. Teaching kids that the most important thing is their ethnicity or the color of their skin is wrong. Telling them that some are perpetual victims and others privileged overlords is wrong. Teaching about sexuality in elementary school is wrong. These are not extreme views. They are mainstream and commonly held. They are being drowned out by the aggressive left which is a large problem of late.

I'm not deluded enough to think an argument is "won" when discussing with AP, or JR, or our anti-vaxx crew.

Try making clear and rational arguments instead of attacking, maligning, and making emotional statements.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Yes, nothing like that has ever happened in the history of this country! This is an outrage! Oh, wait...you mean black people in America go through this on a daily basis? It can't be! No one I know is racist!

Nowhere did I say or imply any such things. Yes, racists exist. They always have and they likely always will. It is one of many human failings. Racism, of course, is not limited to "white" people being prejudiced towards "black" people. Your victim card is well-worn, sir.

It's so cute when folks who go on about individual liberty defend the Constitution. Apparently they skipped the preamble--"provide for the common defense," "promote the general welfare" ring any bells? The Founders were well aware that we're all in this together--it'd be nice to see a little more appreciation of that little detail from folks on a certain side of the argument.

Yes, with limited government. Providing for the common defense included militia service by able-bodied men among other things. We now have an all-volunteer military where only a tiny fraction serve. "The general welfare" does not imply the necessity of a welfare state or a permanent dependent class in American society. The founders were well aware of the sacrifices made to obtain Liberty and they wondered if their progeny (us) would be able to maintain it. "...a Republic, if you can keep it." Some days I'm not sure we can. Remember, government is not the best solution for everything. In fact, it might not be the best solution for many things at all, though some of it IS necessary.

Yeah, I was there too. And I'm still here. I'm well aware things have changed(though not to the point that racism and prejudice are even remotely close to disappearing), but the simple fact of the matter is that people on the right are seeking to roll back those changes. Look at Desantis's new redistricting map (and it is indeed his). It cancels a black majority Congressional district, weakening minority representation in Congress. That is not the sort of "progress" I think we're looking to see. Vaguely worded laws about discussions of sexuality leave open the door (and I'd say intentionally) for these laws to be abused, and used as a tool to "root out" gay teachers, or at the very least put them back in the closet during school hours. Again, not the sort of "progress" that I think helps anyone. And the same for the anti-"CRT" laws. They have the potential to deny a voice to a minority point of view--ie, race issues can only be discussed to an extent and in a manner that is acceptable to white people. One more time, not the "progress" I think we should be looking for.

If you have the expectation that racism and prejudice will ever disappear then I think we've found one root problem here. Nothing is ever perfect, especially nothing humans do. Partly this is because we are flawed, but it is also because in a large population no one is ever 100% satisfied with the status quo. While a certain amount of idealism is needed to keep actual improvements coming, too much of it leads to, well, where are now. Too many people with unrealistic expectations and no ability to make or understand the trade-offs required. I think you are needlessly fearful and failing to see reality. But opinions vary, as our moderator likes to remind us.

 

[hodad]

You aren't in a position of authority on these discussions.

Wait...I'm supposed to let boji tell me how I feel? I'll bear that in mind, and be sure to keep in close contact in the future just so I can keep tabs on myself.

Again with the guilt-by-association fallacy.

You don't understand. You're guilty of supporting policies that are already being used to do things that ostensibly run counter to your beliefs. It's nothing to do with your ethical positions, except insomuch as you support politicians and legislation that run counter to those positions.

lot of politically motivated indoctrination to displace the fundamentals of reading, writing, mathematics, science, art, music, history, and civics.

You have no first-hand knowledge of anything that happens in today's schools, do you? I'm sorry, but to me this simply illustrates your ignorance. Not meant to offend, but simply stating the facts. You're not entirely wrong about art and music being displaced, but it has nothing to do with indoctrination, and it's been going on for quite some time. I have many issues with how schools are run these days, but political indoctrination (from either side) is fairly far down my list.

Teaching about sexuality in elementary school is wrong.

Firing a teacher for mentioning her same-sex spouse is wrong, but that's where DeSantis's legislation is headed. Firing a teacher for discussing why Jimmy has two daddies instead of a mommy and a daddy is wrong, but that's where we're headed. What exactly do you believe teachers are saying when you say "teaching about sexuality?"

Try making clear and rational arguments

Thanks for the advice, champ.

 

[hodad]

So let's talk SEL--Social Emotional Learning. So in 2nd Grade in Atlanta (as of 2 years ago), SEL was about things like empathy, respect, etc. There's an anti-bullying element (something I'm sure a lot of parents appreciate), and there's Good Touch/Bad Touch (the most sexual thing in the program, but I'm not sure many folks would advocate for getting rid of it), the "Never-Never"s--things like not lighting matches--basically not doing the stupid stuff that kids might do if left to their own devices. Often there'll be some small activity at the start like telling your seat neighbor one thing you did over the weekend, or saying one nice thing about the person sitting next to you. There are some games, singalongs, books--the kind of stuff teachers used back in the day, but without it being a program the school district paid $$$$$$$ for. A book that was well received was about hair--a little girl's unruly hair and her father's unsuccessful efforts to tame it. The sort of thing that kids with unruly hair can relate to. 30 minutes of class time a day--probably less than what was spent on such matters when many of us were kids. The sad fact is that for quite some years, and especially in poorer, majority-minority school districts, there was a push to emphasize the 3 R's at the expense of a whole lot else. So SEL simply injects some of that back into the classroom, albeit in a much more scripted way than it used to be. But that's kind of the story of US education in general these days.

Just so folks have some idea what the right is so upset about.

 

[living sounds]

Just so folks have some idea what the right is so upset about.

I think what they are actually upset about is largely imaginary...

 

[fazer]

God you guys are acting like friggin bots. Just continue with the babble branding people as associated with “those far right people and therefore ignorant barefoot hillbillies.

This completely reminds me of tads or whatever his name was. Back in the 2016 election.

Paid or unpaid trolls and shills. Thank god for the ignore feature for your inflammatory high trash / false branding low content - and always be the last post on a self righteous driven thread. Is there a middle finger emoji?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Wait...I'm supposed to let boji tell me how I feel? I'll bear that in mind, and be sure to keep in close contact in the future just so I can keep tabs on myself.

I don't control what other people post.

You don't understand. You're guilty of supporting policies that are already being used to do things that ostensibly run counter to your beliefs. It's nothing to do with your ethical positions, except insomuch as you support politicians and legislation that run counter to those positions.

Your arrogance seems to have no bound. I'm guilty of nothing other than thinking for myself and coming to a different conclusion than you have. Ranting like this reminds me of people whining that others are "voting against their own best interests." Just stop pretending you understand if you aren't even going to read what I post.

You have no first-hand knowledge of anything that happens in today's schools, do you? I'm sorry, but to me this simply illustrates your ignorance. Not meant to offend, but simply stating the facts. You're not entirely wrong about art and music being displaced, but it has nothing to do with indoctrination, and it's been going on for quite some time. I have many issues with how schools are run these days, but political indoctrination (from either side) is fairly far down my list.

I've seen plenty of videos. You conveniently ignored the ones I posted. There are hundreds more. It happens. A lot of us don't like it. I don't have to be present to gather knowledge. Do you refuse to believe man landed on the moon because you were not there to witness it?

Firing a teacher for mentioning her same-sex spouse is wrong, but that's where DeSantis's legislation is headed. Firing a teacher for discussing why Jimmy has two daddies instead of a mommy and a daddy is wrong, but that's where we're headed. What exactly do you believe teachers are saying when you say "teaching about sexuality?"

Supposition based on fear alone. The same whining happens when states pass shall issue concealed weapon permits. "The streets will run red with blood!" Yet no such thing has happened. Teaching about gender identity in elementary school is happening and it is unacceptable. How many times do I have to state that? How many videos do you need to see? How many graphically sexual library books should be OK in elementary school?

Thanks for the advice, champ.

You can't do it. You have nothing but fear and feelings (and ad hominem, straw men, Bulverism, etc).