team politics talking points.

[Matador]

argues that social problems stem more from social structures and cultural assumptions than from individuals.

Did you read Hannah-Jones's book? What you describe is certainly not the thrust of the project that one can distill down into a single sentence.

 

[scott2000]

But there was, perhaps, an assumption that talking sh!t about a group of people (really, a caricature of a group of people) was okay, because nobody here was directly called out, and thus no one should be offended.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The question that comes to my mind is this: Since it isn't happening, what is the actual goal of the laws being passed?

I was just pointing out the illogic of your comment.
===

I don't accept homework assignment on the internets... apparently there are numerous states considering such restrictions, Florida popped up first in a quick search. I suspect they are emblematic of the trend.

The Florida State Board of Education unanimously approved an amendment to its rules on Thursday, after hours of debate and public comment. The amendment instructs public school staff to teach topics around race "efficiently and faithfully," using materials that meet "the highest standards of professionalism and historical accuracy."It bans the teaching of critical race theory, which the legislation describes as "the theory that racism is not merely the product of prejudice, but that racism is embedded in American society and its legal systems in order to uphold the supremacy of white persons."

You might know, or you might not, that many of these laws are worded in a manner that allows for a lot of discretion in their interpretation. It's at the very least a potential nuisance to have laws like these on the books, and at worst they could be used to make sure that all history taught in schools is of the White conservative Christian type. I suspect you'd approve of that though.

Stop making pejorative claims about what I'd approve of (that breaks rule #4 again).

Of course who is going to police such curriculum rules? The school board? teacher's unions?

Of course, you haven't exactly avoided scholarly dissertations here yourself. At least I tend to be a little briefer.

But since you asked so nicely

we need an emoticon for rhetorical questions, that don't actually require an answer.

, I'll leave you with one more pass at explaining the point I don't think you'll ever get.

more insults?

******** I've noted before that I am very much a Southerner, and for a part of my 20s I worked in my smallish hometown. There was a thing that would happen. I'd be chatting with a (white) customer. He'd pause, take a look around to see who was within earshot, and say, "I'm not a racist, but..." and what would inevitably follow was something bigoted, prejudiced, and/or racist.

This was so common that my brother and I would joke about "I'm not a racist but" racists. Of course, it never seemed to occur to any of these people that my brother or I might be offended by what they said--we were white, after all, and weren't all white people cool with talking sh!t about black people? And of course, we were offended, but unable to say anything--these were our customers, and you put up with a lot of rude and asinine stuff when you deal with the public.

Calling everybody, including the system racist, tends to put many thinking people on the defensive... what if _____is right? Alinsky's rules for radicals advises to put your opponent on the defensive.
====
yup I've had to deal with customers for my entire professional career. Customers are "always" right, but "often" wrong.

I've encountered a few racists in MS including one neighbor who is sure that he isn't , but as I've shared before the worst racists I ever encountered were in a bar in Cambridge, MA (back in the 60s). I lived in Stone Mtn, GA briefly this century, that's the symbolic birthplace of the modern KKK but that birthing event was like a century ago so before my time living there.

We all have biases from our life experience. I don't think anyone here can claim perfection, I don't.

And the point of this story is not to accuse anyone here of being racist--what started all this actually did not in any direct fashion have a thing to do with race. But there was, perhaps, an assumption that talking sh!t about a group of people (really, a caricature of a group of people) was okay, because nobody here was directly called out, and thus no one should be offended. It's certainly not an exact analogy, but it's that "How did I say anything offensive?" attitude that really connects the two for me.

In fact I have suggested before that we should ban all disrespectful speech including toward nonmembers like celebrities, politicians, etc. Too much disrespectful speech normalizes the bad behavior and leads some people think its acceptable to talk that way to everybody including forum members. (mea culpa I am guilty of dissing celebrities and politicians here and on the internets ).
==
For now it not against the rules to post vague ad hominem insulting half the country at a time, don't worry we know who you are really talking about.

JR

 

[hodad]

I was just pointing out the illogic of your comment.

No, you were not. You were making weak excuses for bad laws. You gave no concrete example of CRT being taught in any public school, and I don't know that I've seen a single one. The illogic is in making laws to safeguard against problems that don't exist. The danger is that these laws will be abused for other purposes. The smart choice would be not to pass laws that address problems that don't exist.

another article about Thomas Jefferson's slave ownership.

And why should we not learn about this? The man got wealthy from making enslaved black teenage boys make nails for him to sell--owning slaves was a big thing for Jefferson. Or is this the sort of information those vaguely worded anti-CRT laws are really designed to keep out of the classroom?

the worst racists I ever encountered were in a bar in Cambridge, MA

Yes, there are racists all across this nation. It doesn't excuse racism in the South.

 

[hodad]

For now it not against the rules to post vague ad hominem insulting half the country at a time, don't worry we know who you are really talking about.

It's funny. I was thinking about your knee-jerk reaction to pretty much every comment I make about the state you live in--often involving you accusing me of trolling. I'm really not sure how that could be trolling and yet your inflammatory wokester comment would somehow not be (and generally speaking the accusation puzzles me--I typically don't say anything inflammatory, but the reaction tends to be you accusing me of violating forum rules. ). Now as to the times when I've referred to right wing loons or nutjobs or the like--fair enough. Very much on a level with your "wokester" comment. I'll try to do better.

 

[JohnRoberts]

You sure like to argue (I don't).

No, you were not. You were making weak excuses for bad laws.

You claimed it does not exist (is not being taught). Enough parents experienced it that they forced politicians to pass laws. (No Hillary this is not the vast right wing conspiracy).

You gave no concrete example of CRT being taught in any public school, and I don't know that I've seen a single one.

I don't know how hard you looked.
From a quick search...
CRT
Defend Our Kids Org
Fla. Releases Textbook Examples of CRT in Schools, Including Biased Test - Headline USA
Critical race theory in the classroom: Understanding the debate
Yes, CRT is taught in K-12 schools. Here’s how. | The College Fix
CRT TOP 10 WORST EXAMPLES
Yes, critical race theory is being taught in public schools
New website tracks where critical race theory is taught at US schools
Critical Race Theory in Education

I did not selectively edit what links I presented these are just the first results from a search for examples examples of CRT being taught in classrooms at DuckDuckGo

I expect you to attempt to discredit all these sources... enjoy.

The illogic is in making laws to safeguard against problems that don't exist. The danger is that these laws will be abused for other purposes. The smart choice would be not to pass laws that address problems that don't exist.

True perhaps if the CRT teaching did not actually exist, opinions surely vary on that argument. Selective prosecution of existing laws is an abuse that goes on widely. All the "Soros" backed progressive prosecutors that selectively choose not to enforce criminal statutes, gives criminal license to break laws and run amok. Crime statitics reflect that. Police are resigning because it is pointless to arrest criminals who get immediately released. I saw a news blurb about a shoplifter who was proud of being arrested 100 times... not a mother stealing eggs for her hungry children.

And why should we not learn about this? The man got wealthy from making enslaved black teenage boys make nails for him to sell--owning slaves was a big thing for Jefferson. Or is this the sort of information those vaguely worded anti-CRT laws are really designed to keep out of the classroom?

Of course we should learn all history but it requires perspective. Thomas Jefferson was a truly remarkable man, and a product of his time. We owe him a huge debt for his contributions to founding this also great nation. At least SF voted out the radical school board members who were more interested in removing founders names from schools, than teaching children. To get removed by SF voters is saying something.

It is disingenuous to judge Thomas Jefferson by modern standards that seem to shifting almost daily.

Yes, there are racists all across this nation. It doesn't excuse racism in the South.

I have tried to pay attention to this for my entire adult life. I served side by side with black soldier and in the army we all wore green and bled the same color red. I have shared my personal observation before, and I got immersed in it when I moved to the deep south over three decades ago. I have observed a gradual improvement over several decades thanks to desegregation and increased mixing of races in school. Children learn from personal experience that other kids are just like them.... Parents don't learn as fast so it takes generations to fully correct racial perceptions. I perceived a reversal in this gradual improvement coincident with President Obama taking office. I did not vote for him but celebrated the accomplishment by my nation to elect him President. But he almost immediately set back race relations by accusing a Cambridge police officer of being racist without any basis. The officer was clearly not racist and President Obama tried to walk back his mistake with a rose garden beer party.

I can't read minds like you guys but it almost looks like people are actively trying to divide us. Desegregation was showing children that they were all alike, so school curriculum was crafted to divide them again.

Of course if it doesn't exist I would have to be wrong. One of us must be wrong....

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

It's funny. I was thinking about your knee-jerk reaction to pretty much every comment I make about the state you live in--often involving you accusing me of trolling. I'm really not sure how that could be trolling and yet your inflammatory wokester comment would somehow not be (and generally speaking the accusation puzzles me--I typically don't say anything inflammatory, but the reaction tends to be you accusing me of violating forum rules. ). Now as to the times when I've referred to right wing loons or nutjobs or the like--fair enough. Very much on a level with your "wokester" comment. I'll try to do better.

keep digging....

JR

 

[hodad]

It is disingenuous to judge Thomas Jefferson by modern standards that seem to shifting almost daily.

Ergo we may not discuss his ownership of slaves. Got it.

True perhaps if the CRT teaching did not actually exist, opinions surely vary on that argument.

Opinions vary, but the facts do not. CRT was not being taught.

You sure like to argue (I don't).

Humor? Or is it just that you prefer when everyone accepts all the words that emanate from you as holy writ?

Enough parents experienced it that they forced politicians to pass laws

Oh, it was the parents. I see. It wasn't groups like ALEC (the ones who actually write the laws Republicans pass), or any of the right wing agitators who worked so hard to stir up a stink about something that most teachers had never even heard of, much less taught.

Here's to civility in public discourse:

 

[crazydoc]

Here's to civility in public discourse:

You gotta love those freedom loving Americans, especially the ones in "a well regulated militia" who are dealing with some random folks every week now - adults and kids - whom they apparently feel pose some threat to them. A great way to celebrate independence day.

 

[iturnknobs]

You gotta love those freedom loving Americans, especially the ones in "a well regulated militia" who are dealing with some random folks every week now - adults and kids - whom they apparently feel pose some threat to them. A great way to celebrate independence day.

I complained about Kyle Rittenhouse and the awful people on the right that enabled him. He was only a few towns away from me. I see the worst of the worst in my area that spout CRT, 2A, religious zealots, racism... basically all the subsets of people that make up the Republican party.
Turns out I used to frequent at deli/convenient store where I would buy sandwiches from Bobby Crimo. His father owned the establishment. This mass shooting occurred 2 blocks away from a venue I work at regularly. I also work in many venues located in downtown Chicago. Hey, right-wingers, listen up. CHICAGO VIOLENCE IS PROPAGANDA AND YESTERDAY'S EVENTS ARE BECAUSE OF YOU.
Once again, I am dealing with issues "on my doorstep" while you boneheads argue "freedom". While significant gun legislation was just passed, an assault weapons ban, for some reason, is always off the table and increasing the age to purchase these weapons is as well. YOUR SCOTUS who voted 6-3 just voted against it. 5 of those 6 were put in place by Presidents who were NOT voted for by the majority of the country.
CHANGE IS COMING. Today's children will eventually vote the right way to put this to an end as a result of what they have grown up being taught in school (Run, Hide, Fight), participating in active shooter drills, and actually being shot at. Those on the right could expedite this by voting properly, or I can sit back and watch more children die. Your choice.
Hardening targets is not an option. We are at the point where everything needs to be "hardened", OR we could put in place real gun regulations. The thread about properly locking guns up was LAUGHABLE. Way to "harden" your situation. When an armed intruder breaks in to your home, have fun getting your gun out of the safe and putting a few rounds in it to "protect yourself".
Somebody needs to tell the Akron police how to properly make swiss cheese. I think they're confused.
Happy Independence Day to a country where the only free people are white men with guns.

 

[iturnknobs]

Move

Looking into it. Adopt a black baby and mop up the blood of the children.

 

[cyrano]

I don't know how hard you looked.
From a quick search...
CRT
Defend Our Kids Org
Fla. Releases Textbook Examples of CRT in Schools, Including Biased Test - Headline USA
Critical race theory in the classroom: Understanding the debate
Yes, CRT is taught in K-12 schools. Here’s how. | The College Fix
CRT TOP 10 WORST EXAMPLES
Yes, critical race theory is being taught in public schools
New website tracks where critical race theory is taught at US schools
Critical Race Theory in Education

I did not selectively edit what links I presented these are just the first results from a search for examples examples of CRT being taught in classrooms at DuckDuckGo

I expect you to attempt to discredit all these sources... enjoy.

I don't know what all these sources are going on about. CRT means "critical race theory".

The Biden admin's proposal calls it "culturally responsive teaching". And that seems to be a totally different animal.

What are the 7 principles of culturally responsive teaching?

7 Culturally Responsive Teaching Strategies

• Activate students' prior knowledge. ...
• Make learning contextual. ...
• Consider your classroom setup. ...
• Form relationships. ...
• Discuss social and political issues. ...
• Tap into students' cultural capital. ...
• Incorporate popular culture.

Seems to have very little connection to "critical race theory".

 

[JohnRoberts]

George Orwell invented "newspeak" for his dystopian political novel 1984.

Redefining what words mean for political ends isn't even original.

JR

 

[iturnknobs]

1984 was required reading for me in high school in my reading/creative writing classes. I always hated history. I asked my history teacher why I had to learn that "crap". He said, "So we don't make the same mistakes as we did in the past." Keep up the CRT bullsh*t. Amazing. Hatred prevails.

Here's more "Godwin's Law" for JR and his minions...go ahead, Rule #4 me.
Hitler exterminated 6 million Jews. At least he was crazy. Maybe this pleases the Soros tinfoil lemmings.
The INVASION of sh*tty white people killed TENS OF MILLIONS of Native Americans in the name of greed... if only Trump could have been around to build the wall back then. Who knows, maybe you guys can solve global warming...
https://www.businessinsider.com/climate-changed-after-europeans-killed-indigenous-americans-2019-2Take a lesson from my history teacher.

Way to use 1984 as an example of what is going on. I prefer non-fiction over fiction...history, that is.

The CRT argument on the right is a direct analogy to the refusal of those on right to acknowledge gun massacres in society...Even funnier is the people "you stand with" calling this situation another "false flag operation" perpetrated by the MSM. This is who you stand with. This is who you are. Silence is complicity.

 

[JohnRoberts]

are you asking to be banned? it can be arranged.

JR

1984 was required reading for me in high school in my reading/creative writing classes. I always hated history. I asked my history teacher why I had to learn that "crap". He said, "So we don't make the same mistakes as we did in the past." Keep up the CRT bullsh*t. Amazing. Hatred prevails.

Here's more "Godwin's Law" for JR and his minions...go ahead, Rule #4 me.
Hitler exterminated 6 million Jews. At least he was crazy. Maybe this pleases the Soros tinfoil lemmings.
The INVASION of sh*tty white people killed TENS OF MILLIONS of Native Americans in the name of greed... if only Trump could have been around to build the wall back then. Who knows, maybe you guys can solve global warming...
https://www.businessinsider.com/climate-changed-after-europeans-killed-indigenous-americans-2019-2Take a lesson from my history teacher.

Way to use 1984 as an example of what is going on. I prefer non-fiction over fiction...history, that is.

The CRT argument on the right is a direct analogy to the refusal of those on right to acknowledge gun massacres in society...Even funnier is the people "you stand with" calling this situation another "false flag operation" perpetrated by the MSM. This is who you stand with. This is who you are. Silence is complicity.

 

[iturnknobs]

Feel free to "cancel culture" me to continue pushing your party's poison, unhindered. The truth hurts...and Republican policy literally kills.

edit: I don't know about your life, but these nutjobs are/were in mine. I gave them money. They were enabled by your votes.
https://nypost.com/2022/07/05/robert-crimos-dad-liked-pro-gun-tweet-on-day-of-uvalde-massacre/edit #2: It's cute how someone from Finland is disturbed by my truth and direct experience in America. Maybe we can trade our places in our country of residence. I'd love the "socialism" provided by that country. Maybe he/she would like the lack of healthcare and the highest rate of gun crime and mass shootings in the world.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...how-the-u-s-compares-to-the-rest-of-the-worldBrought to us by the party of "minority rules".

 

[iturnknobs]

are you asking to be banned? it can be arranged.

JR

Stare into this child's eyes whose situation was brought upon him by Republican voting as you ban me.
https://nypost.com/

 

[JohnRoberts]

Now this is getting interesting... So abortion is not killing? How many deaths are caused by the unenforced southern border like those 50 souls locked inside a sweltering tractor trailer, or fentanyl streaming across that open border (leading cause of death for 18-45YO), etc. (I know whataboutism).
===
If you want to move to Finland maybe start a go fund me campaign, I hear they work.
===
Illinois already has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, maybe they need stricter mental illness red flag capability. It seems like every one of these shooting tragedies reveals a pattern/profile of a disturbed individual. I agree that such individuals should not have guns. Apparently that is difficult to do, or it already would be done.

Florida passed a republican championed red flag law after the 2018 Parkland school shooting, so far the judges have acted 8,000 times to get guns out of the hands of people authorities consider a risk to themselves or others. This is all a little reminiscent of the science fiction movie "minority report" where the system has to predict future behavior.

It is already a crime to threaten somebody with a gun, while AG Bragg in NY has downgraded felony armed robbery to misdemeanor petit larceny. Interesting times.

Maybe move to Florida.

JR

PS: This is getting off topic from discussion "team politics talking points"....

PPS: As I predicted a number of wokesters protested the 4th of july (Katy Perry, Kim Kardashian, Bette Middler, Jessica Chastain, etc.)

 

[living sounds]

So abortion is not killing?

Indeed. A fetus is not a person. The question should be at which point the fetus is significantly functioning on a neural level that government should be required to protect it.

But many people, judges of the highest court presumably included, imagine transfer of a "soul", an immaterial spirit, for which there is not only zero evidence but not the slightest necessity in terms of the functioning of objeective reality as it presents itself to us, into the organized cell material long before actual information processing at a relevant level occurs. Coincidentally, it is quite often the same people who imagine a corporation, an amalgamation of capital, to deserve rights of personhood.

That's how messed up right wing ideology is.

 

[iturnknobs]

Did you REALLY just try to make terminating a zygote to the shootings on the 4th?! Says he who proudly professes to shoot squirrels that have lived and are living a full life. Those who kill things and eat meat really don't make the pro-life point very well. Muslims have every single Christian beat with at least being "halal". Yes, it is getting interesting as logic breaks down. Like I said before, there's some 10 year old rape victims that could use a hug as you support policies that force them to bring their daddy's baby to term. Maybe you should adopt developmentally challenged child due to incest to really bring your point home. I could find dozens more of these instances just 10-12 days after your party's "momentous" decision. Disgusting.

10-year-old rape victim in Ohio reportedly denied abortion, travels to Indiana for procedure

https://boingboing.net/2022/07/05/s...forced-to-give-birth-to-her-rapists-baby.html