audioforge

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« on: October 22, 2007, 07:20:55 AM »
This thread is for help peoples to build their 1073 or 1084 with EQ DIY.

Schematics can be found here:
http://www.ams-neve.com/downloads_all/files/Outboard/1073_1084_User_Guide.pdf

Hard to find parts:
The Transformers and inductors from carnhill are now avalaible at a fair price from audiomaintenance  
http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Transformers_and_Inductors.html
I ve done a wiring lead color guide for the carhnill inductors and upload it here:
http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pos=-1808

Others inductors brands could be found eg Sowter and here too (iodio) but won t fit the pcbs
i ve designed.

PCBS here
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=290623
be quick as i don t think i will do a second batch......

edgecard connectors   you can find them from mouser digikey etc in usa or RS.
i can supply them for 4 euros each with the pcbs ....

you can use the classic "lorlin" 1 pole 12 positions for all the switches for the EQ part.

the gain switch is an ELMA 3 decks 22 positions .expensive....
you can use this one from Uraltone 12 euros if you are on the cheap side....
http://www.uraltone.com/kauppa/product_info.php?products_id=1078

Power supply
there s many soluce: design your own or take a look at JML tekai  etc....
i ve done one with a 2X21V 571mA traffos and have 100ma for the 48V and 400mA for 24V at the same time so good enought for 2 1084 or 2 1073...
i can upload the schematic by request.

all others components are easy to source included "styroflex caps" and the mustard phillips/mullard caps can be replaced by xicon or panasonic polypropylene..
eg banzai in europe have all the values you need....

Ask your questions and Share your soluces, ideas, good links here
Audioforge :wink:


codered

Mustard capacitors & other questions
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2007, 06:02:17 PM »
1.I was wondering what the best way was to get the mustards.USA ebay seems  too expensive.Are there surplus stores in the EU where it can be got for less.

2.What are the modern replacements for the mustards?The reason I'm asking is because apart than the trannies the tantalums & mustards give a good part of the Neve sound IMHO

3.Edge card connectors:
 Is the correct part number  50-36SN-12 ?

4.If the cards are 100mm wide then fitting in the original cases might not be feasible.The original size is 90mm
you're a nut ... this is the internet..we're all nuts

audioforge

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2007, 06:25:12 AM »
codered .
beware phillips-mullards "mustards" caps sizes vary a lot vs voltage.
so the 400v ones could or not fit the pcbs (original or not). the 125 or 160v ones should be ok but even in thoses series some are more or  less compact  so i suggest go for  new polyprop caps...
btw they are new mustard caps clone eg here http://www.sozoamplification.com/purchase.html
for new caps : sprague 716p  xicon polyprop   panasonic ecq-p etc....as for the mustard caps "sound" well that s a master of taste or audiophile hype....

in USA mouser digikey sell EDAC  eg mouser part 587-306-50-018.
i m not familiar with mouser digikey ...
connectors must be 18pins 3.96mm pitch (0.156") solder eyelet ...

i NEVER design the pcbs to build an exact replica rack  so cards are 5.5mm larger than the original ones. no consequences with the edge connectors but will be tight to fit as replacement pcbs in an original 1073 1084 rack. even you can "hand " reduce some of the pcbs  by 5 mm.
audioforge

codered

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2007, 02:25:44 PM »
Audioforge,

Thanks for your initiative on this project & hope we'll be able to complete it!
The original mustards were all 160V (atleast in the 1073s I've seen).I'm not very enthusistic about the SOzo caps but I'll try them.

 Cinch: I wanted the exact part number of the Cinch you are procuring.I didnt understand single-read & double-read in the specs and hence the confusion..I'm assuming it is 1-sided & 2-sided pcb
  I hope you'll design the pcbs so that we could trim the edges (for those who want to).The ability to drop the module in a Neve console would add to the value methinks.

Another thought: for those who plan to rack these babies,we'll need small pcbs to fit into the rear cinch right?Would you be designing it?
you're a nut ... this is the internet..we're all nuts

audioforge

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2007, 05:16:32 PM »
codered
the edgeconnectors i can have are the ones from radiospares ref 483-865
the manufacturer code BA000070000E000 do not match with the cinch cardcon pdf they supply.and yes ,their descpription is confuse.
single row is for single cooper face pcbs and double row for 2 cooper face pcbs. in practise even they supply me double row it doesn t matter as you can only use the low solder eyelet row or link with a small piece of wire or resistor tail the upper and down eyelet and have the ability to use now 2 solder eyelets for connecting the wires between the cards .....

for the pcbs size you should be able to" hand cut"(trim) all the cards by 2.54mm  for the left and the right side of the pcbs except the ba283 and ba284. loocking at pics of 1073 racks i have i m quite sure ba283 and 284  will fit with 2.54mm more on each side of the edgeconnectors.(if you plan to build a "real "1073/84 rack or use them as replacement boards even i say it again my purpose was not replacement copy cards....)

then you said : we'll need small pcbs to fit into the rear cinch right?Would you be designing it?
i don t understand your question. soldereyelet means you solder wires direct on the edgeconnector rear as in the original 1073/84 racks . no need of pcbs. for that..... or do i misunderstand your question?
btw IMHO forget thoses mullard caps ..modern polyprop will be cheaper easier to source and i really doubt you will hear a signifiant difference ...
amsneve or brent averill use polyprop or maybe stacked metal film caps in their repros....
audioforge

codered

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2007, 07:21:33 PM »
Quote from: "audioforge"
i don t understand your question. soldereyelet means you solder wires direct on the edgeconnector rear as in the original 1073/84 racks . no need of pcbs. for that..... or do i misunderstand your question?
btw IMHO forget thoses mullard caps ..modern polyprop will be cheaper easier to source and i really doubt you will hear a signifiant difference ...
amsneve or brent averill use polyprop or maybe stacked metal film caps in their repros....
audioforge


In a real 1073 there is a cinch connector in the rear which interfaces with the console for power supply , gain etc .So if we want to rack the module usually there is a small pcb which fits on the rear cinch.All the gain ,power supply connection are taken from that PCB.Well this is the way the professional racking guys like Botique Audio & VK do it from what I've seen.
  I think what you've misunderstood is the positioning of the solderlugs.The solderlugs are actually inside the module.
you're a nut ... this is the internet..we're all nuts

audioforge

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2007, 03:19:26 AM »
codered
now i understand what you mean.
sorry i didn t plan to do it.
audioforge

audioforge

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2007, 03:17:59 PM »
wiring lead color guide for the 1073/84 carhnill inductors have bee uploaded here:
http://twin-x.com/groupdiy/displayimage.php?pos=-1808
audioforge

audioforge

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2007, 03:14:26 PM »
I ve done two input attenuators with the uraltone 24 positions four decks.
http://www.uraltone.com/kauppa/product_info.php?products_id=1078
For 12 euros they seems quite good. not elma quality for sure but as good or better than a classic lorlin.
Quite easy to do following the schematics.
Diameter with the 1% metal film resistors 40 mm.
could be a bit too big for an 1U case......
i will post pics on sunday...
audioforge

audioforge

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2007, 04:17:15 PM »
Some tips for thoses who want to use the cheap (12 euros)  taiwan gainswitches from uraltone.
a wiring resitors guide
somes pics of real switch . beware diameter is 40mm.
and half shaft (6mm diameter)!!!!
begin with position 9 on the first row . bend the pins of the third row ( no used) so the resistors are more near the switch.

not as good looking than elma ... :oops:  and yes i know ,could be better
soldered....










audioforge
[/img]


Ephrem

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2007, 09:25:45 PM »
Hello,

On BA 205, there is two pots (10k &50k).
are they linear or log pots ?

Same question on Ba 211, the 10 k pot, is it linear or log ?


Regards

Ephrem

lofi

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2008, 03:44:07 PM »
Are you professionally stupid, or just a gifted amateur.

Iain Westland (UK)


MartyMart

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2008, 06:30:59 PM »
A cap question, do we need to use huge 22.5mm/27mm polyprops ?
They are in the 400v/600v/1000v range and are coming in quite expensive.
If they "fit" won't decent quality "box" poly's in 63v/100v be fine?
Can't see why caps from valve guitar amps are required in this circuit !!
BA205/BA182/BA211 are the ones that I refer to.
 ... just my 2 C's worth .... opinions ?

Thanks, Marty.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm"

audioforge

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2008, 03:44:51 AM »
martymart
you have several holes for each polypropylene caps so you can use original  mustard caps or Xicon, Sprague 716 or even the Panasonic polyprop type in the filter sections.
 eg banzai in europe have all the values you need
http://www.banzaieffects.com/Capacitors-c-108.html .
search film foil and styrofex...
this will give you some ideas.then search any other dealer for maybe better prices....
audioforge

MartyMart

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2008, 07:15:02 AM »
Thanks Pierre, I have enough "orange drops" and Evox/MKT to do one
channel and will look at the options for the second one - might be nice to see
if there's any real difference between them.
Styrofex are polystyrene caps ... right ? ( have a bunch of these up to 100n)
Probably use  Panasonic ECQ's ( brownies ) on No2 and see how it goes.
Would you suggest using 20mm spacers between boards for racking using a 2U case ?
I need to get my brain around this as I'm not using edge connectors !

I've also given up on the 64uf and 80uf values and will simply go with 100uf
in all those positions, all at 25v too.
Could only find 470uf in 6.3v - not a single 400uf anywhere !

MM.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm"

PimD

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2008, 07:42:14 AM »
Couldn't you just go for 82uF and 68uF. That's what i'm going too do, and i don't expect any problems.
And for the 400uF i'm going to use a 390, guess that will also work.

MartyMart

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2008, 08:51:28 AM »
Could do, have not ordered the parts yet as I'm 2x projects away from getting into this one properly.
I also need to sort out a 2U front panel and save some cash up for the
transformers and pots !!!
On the BA211 board does anyone know the cap value to pin "P" and also to
pins "K" and "L" which are horizontal across the board from inductor `"2H"
and 1000mH just above the 47nf ??
R* is the mystery/optional 220k right ?

Cheers,
Marty.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm"

audioforge

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2008, 09:38:08 AM »
from memory
ba211
c7 is 22n
c8 is 47n
c9 is 100n
R* is 220k only require for 1084 (b211A schematic)...
pin k and L and P are not used.!
PLEASE READ THE USER MANUAL AND FOLLOW THE SCHEMATICS TRACES
for the 1073 if you build this one or the 1084 if you build a 1084.....
audioforge

MartyMart

1073 1084 with EQ DIY project HELP THREAD
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2008, 12:31:54 PM »
Quote from: "audioforge"
from memory
ba211
c7 is 22n
c8 is 47n
c9 is 100n
R* is 220k only require for 1084 (b211A schematic)...
pin k and L and P are not used.!
PLEASE READ THE USER MANUAL AND FOLLOW THE SCHEMATICS TRACES
for the 1073 if you build this one or the 1084 if you build a 1084.....
audioforge


Pierre, I understand that those values are marked ( thanks )
I was looking at the PCB layouts from the old "2004" version that's
on the forum somewhere and just comparing the traces etc.
There were a few "?" marked caps but good to know that K/L/P are
not used on the 1073 .
I was just noting that you have "positions" marked and holes cut in those
areas as well.
I'll follow the real schematic from now on  :wink:
Thanks,
Marty.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm"



 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
6 Replies
4973 Views
Last post September 01, 2007, 04:06:32 PM
by audioforge
58 Replies
26463 Views
Last post July 18, 2010, 12:03:44 PM
by haima
34 Replies
8663 Views
Last post April 09, 2008, 12:46:15 AM
by Bluzzi
6 Replies
3358 Views
Last post November 20, 2007, 10:45:47 PM
by Gwaggin390