letterbeacon

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2012, 05:50:10 AM »
Is it ok to touch the capsule like that?   I thought I read somewhere that you should you gloves when handling them...


Sredna

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2012, 08:20:47 AM »
I always wear these when handeling capsules!  ;)

Hmm... in which direction do the electrons actually go?

chunger

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #62 on: December 11, 2012, 05:23:56 PM »
Certainly would not recommend removing the capsule with one hand, installing standoffs on the post, and taking pictures with the other hand. . .  :P  Sacrifices need to be made for pretty picture threads though, and remember, this is the Chinese Labor Camp so expectations are quite low.

Don't get oils, dust, solder splatter, screwdrivers, drinks, or recreational drugs on the capsule membrane.  Handling the outer ring of the back plates should not be problematic.  Gloves would probably not hurt just in case you accidentally brush a finger against he membrane.
DIY photo documentaries consolidated here:  http://studio939.blogspot.com

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2012, 07:43:17 PM »
Yeah, fingerprints on the edges of the both diagraphms of my lovely Thiersch SWT7 capsule kind of freaked me out, but I was reliefed that it didn't seem to affect the sound. It's a thin capsule, and my fingers are apparently very soft and flexible (what a freaky sentence) so they stretched on the diagraphms when I grabbed it without gloves. So with M7, gloves and gentle touch is good practice.

K67's are fatter, so no problem (maybe a problem with a K87? With separated backplates and no scotch tape on it, you don't want to make an electrical contact between the backplates).

Defenetely a problem with CK12 (or CT12), want to keep the diagraphms electrically separated = gloves good.

Just think where you don't want conducting "finger oil" when working with high Z parts. If you want your 1G resitor to be 1G don't make a fingerprint bridge from lead to lead; touch a little bit on the other side, no problem IMO.


chunger

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2012, 04:17:20 AM »
Because it was national soundcheck day "12-12-12", we went into the studio to get a few samples.  Figured I'd stir the pot a bit  :P  Anyways, it was just acoustic guitars this time, but we were able to put a few mics up to compare.  Among them, 2 original vintage U87's.  We did not get the Klaus U87 up because our friend down the street who own it was having a pretty rough day.  He had to put his dog down who he had been walking for near 20 years, so it was all-in-all a bad day to be borrowing mics.  Test signal chain as follows:
Microphone --> Great River preamp --> apogee rosetta 800 running 48K --> RME digiface --> Logic studio . . .console is MCI JH600




First up is my clone described in this thread.

U87 clone digital


U87 clone to tape


Next, all original vintage U87 #1

Vintage U87 #1 digital


Vintage U87 #1 tape




Next, we have an original U87 repaired with a Peluso capsule.  So, for sonic differences induced by circuit and body, this is a good candidate because the capsule is the same as the clone build.

Vintage U87 w/ Peluso capsule digital


Vintage U87 w/ Peluso capsule to tape


Next, for reference, we put up an original vintage km84. . . here's digital


and KM84 to tape


And, because we've used a lot of Audio Technica's mics in studio and have found them to be well priced and very consistent from unit to unit, here is an AT4033 which we know to sound good on this guitar from previous recordings.  Here is AT4033 digital


and AT4033 to tape




DIY photo documentaries consolidated here:  http://studio939.blogspot.com

zayance

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2012, 07:16:25 AM »
Nice that you took the time to do this.

On my simple headphones, the difference is clear from a genuine to a clone, but that doesn't mean bad.
Fuller/Deeper on the Genuine, brighter on the clone ( little more output on the clone as well it seems?)
Capsule seem to make the big difference as always, second the mic body i guess...
I prefer Genuine all the way, not even with the peluso, even if the Peluso seemed to give best of both worlds
in terms of Fuller sound and Air, but that's my taste.

But all seems pretty usefull nonetheless.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 07:19:38 AM by zayance »

bernbrue

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2012, 09:38:12 AM »
Interesting comparision.
I like the vintage U87 very much and the KM84 is the best in my opinion. It sounds somehow unspectecular but is always a good choice. The U87 clone sounds quite powerfull but a bit hyped (highs). The AT4033 sounds boring to my ears. The Peluso capsule in the vintage U87 features the highs a bit too much, same as in the clone. It seems that the capsule is the most important thing in a clone. I would love to hear a U87 clone with a vintage KK87 capsule, because I suppose that Dan´s remake of the U87 circuit wouldn´t bring any differences in sound at all. All in all the clone sounds really good. Thanks a lot for the good listening.
regards
Bernd

Trench Recordings

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2012, 10:08:11 AM »
The C12 sounds great ! Thanks Chunger for taking the time to post these samples.

bernbrue

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2012, 10:11:13 AM »
The C12 sounds great ! Thanks Chunger for taking the time to post these samples.

Was there a C12 ????

Trench Recordings

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2012, 10:46:26 AM »
other thread. C12 clone project  8)


Biasrocks

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2012, 12:00:46 PM »
Nice job Chunger. Any chance you could do some off axis comparisons? Perhaps 90 and 180 degrees.

Also, comparisons with compression would be useful as well.

Regards,
Mark
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:07:27 PM by Biasrocks »
http://SharktankPro.com

"I'd rather use an SPX90 than a UA plugin....." Joe Barresi

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2012, 09:20:03 AM »
Interesting comparision.
I like the vintage U87 very much and the KM84 is the best in my opinion. It sounds somehow unspectecular but is always a good choice. The U87 clone sounds quite powerfull but a bit hyped (highs). The AT4033 sounds boring to my ears. The Peluso capsule in the vintage U87 features the highs a bit too much, same as in the clone. It seems that the capsule is the most important thing in a clone. I would love to hear a U87 clone with a vintage KK87 capsule, because I suppose that Dan´s remake of the U87 circuit wouldn´t bring any differences in sound at all. All in all the clone sounds really good. Thanks a lot for the good listening.
regards
Bernd

Try eric's capsule, it has that more meat and less high end such as the original.

chunger

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #72 on: December 11, 2013, 10:15:36 AM »
Some new sound clips from this mic.  It is well loved by the studio and gets put up a lot!

To be quite honest, this was a quick and dirty session with live takes of the entire ensemble.  The singer probably would have sounded great on any decent mic.  The U87 clone was the 1st mic to go up and it was working, so we left it.  The mix was hastily done for the customer.  A re-visit would probably bring out a lot more.

Free MP3 download: Love Final Mix  11-15-13.mp3

Free MP3 download: Summertime Final Mix  11-15-13.mp3

« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 07:50:44 AM by chunger »
DIY photo documentaries consolidated here:  http://studio939.blogspot.com

Re: Newbie builds U87 clone
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2013, 07:43:42 PM »
I just got a chance to compare those U87 shootout file sin my DAW. The clone and the Peluso-modded U87 are both brighter than the vintage 87. I think we can attribute this to the Peluso capsule. However, even the Peluso-modded U87 seems to have a bigger midrange than the clone. About 2dB more between 500Hz all the way up to 8k. Can we attribute this to transformer, headbasket size, headbasket mesh, FET, other electronics, aging of parts, or even slight mic positioning changes? Who knows.

I must say the vintage U87 sounds a little "closed off" compared to the others with the Peluso caps. It sounds less like it's in a room with space. At the same time it has this "alive" quality, or maybe "depth." It could just be the differences in playing, too.


 

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