Rixsta

Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« on: May 19, 2017, 07:42:26 PM »
Hey all

Hope all is well, Im kinda new to this website and joined here as I love making things! however have been looking into making a diy mic on budget and not sure whats going on with so much information in my brain over the last 2 weeks!

Couple of questions

Do all the valve mics need a separate power supply ?  I presume they do
Im looking for a very open natural dynamic clear sound (not asking for much hehe)

Not sure what kit to go for and where to buy parts as seems they are all over the place!!!

I really like the look of this microphone! looks well built, any comments ?
https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=57797.msg736262#msg736262

Also, which Microphones are Class-A circuitry ?

any comments on this one ?
http://micandmod.com/microphone-kits/8-vintage-u87-kit.html

Thanks


Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 10:45:27 PM »
this probably wont help you either as I'm new to this too, but I looked at that 87 kit and it looked pretty cool. I just bought the D-47 from
http://www.vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com/D-47.html
and am waiting to get all my parts in the mail.  The directions looked straight ahead and for me the thought of a U47 is crazy cool. emailed the one who runs that site and he was helpful. he recommended I come here and talk to people also. I also looked at
https://microphone-parts.com/
 I don't know anything about that stuff personally apart from the reviews are great and the guy who runs it is supper quick to answer emails and questions. I bought a capsule from him and am waiting for that too. Again, I don't know how much that helps, but I hope some

e.oelberg

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2017, 06:27:42 AM »
if you are on budget you should know that any money spent on the capsule will have most effect on the sound. Even with a cheap to realise designs like a transformer less schoeps circuit used in many Chinese mics will get you up there in the sky of a fantastic sounding mic. Tube mics are nice, FET mics too. Tube mics always need a psu, which limits the use of the mix essential... no outdoor recordings possible.

micaddict

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2017, 06:30:44 AM »
If you stay here, you'll learn a lot more.
(Not so much  from me, mind.)

And you'll learn to see the forest for the trees, too.

micaddict

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2017, 06:33:24 AM »
Quote
Tube mics always need a psu

There are exceptions actually, but they are few and far between.
Better forget I even mentioned it (forest, trees, etc.).

DerEber

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2017, 08:21:44 AM »
ok, who is going to do the mic&mod explaination?
 8)

useme2305

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2017, 08:40:54 AM »
i'll play.

Rixsta, the consensus here on GroupDIY is that the owner of Mic n Mod cannibalizes several designs that were invented and made popular here by smart and diligent people and uses them for his own profit in a commercial environment.
this is frowned upon here and that's why no one here will encourage you to purchase from him or provide support for micnmod kits.

the most popular stint of mic and mod is their use of Max Kircher's excellent double 6028 design for their U47 clone kit.

on that note, has anyone seen the new Stam Audio SA-47 U47 clone? same issue.

Rixsta

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2017, 01:18:29 PM »
Hey all!  Thanks a lot for that!

The D-47 looks pretty simple which I like, less complication for the audio signal !  the u47 seems like one of the best choice for me just hope it sounds good.
Ive seen that microphone parts site before ShaneSBG and really thought about if one of those mics is suitable, the t47 looks good there and im guessing that transformer in circuit is a good thing ?

The tube mics im not sure of as your comment e.oelberg that made me remember that you can't use valve microphone outside or on location without the PSU so thats kind of annoying and its nice just relying on phantom power but then again the valve sound is it something to die for lol literally,  no im not scared of high voltage haha but yeah.  Thanks for the info about the capsules! im on it.  I also have an M-Audio microphone, well two of them and the sound is not the best but not bad for a cheap mic, one of the mics i let my friend use and it dropped it looks like the capsule died but would like to find a replacement to drop in, do you think just any will work well or ?  the M-Audio Nova is a good cheap mic but it lacks body and depth in the mids and bass. Its that kind of depth I like, the warmth think like "Marvin Gaye - Whats going" on kind of sound.

I guess I need to decide if valve or transistor is most suitable, Im going to be making a kind of spiritual soul funk blues jazzy progressive rock kind of album if you guys fancy hearing my voice on "old" recordings now, it might give u an idea as to what microphone would help ?  well if anyone has time lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whyLHyXo2Vc

and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OET5RV5na5k

Cheers!

Thanks for all the info, I think ill stay away from micnmod for sure and anyway the quality elsewhere looks better to me.




Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2017, 02:25:16 PM »
Speaking only for myself; my interest in tube electronics is intimately related with a desire to use high voltage circuitry.  The big, independent, dedicated, passive PSU is integral to the concept.

:-)

Rixsta

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2017, 08:36:26 AM »
its always felt a good thing to me keeping the power section away from the audio circuit :)

ive been having a laugh listening and watching this, they guys seem a bit nuts but his voice on the mics is suitable and shows a little how those mics sound :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbd0TnvL_gA&t=805s


KrIVIUM2323

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2017, 11:11:27 AM »
Having control on psu is more related to the quality of it than keeping it away from the audio.
Phantom powered mic don t suffer quality soundwise if the psu feeding them is of nice quality.

BE CAREFUL working with HT. You can have serious injury or worst. But if you take care nothing bad should happen.

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2017, 02:37:13 PM »
So, to chime in again I have a couple of questions... and I'm so sorry this is so long 

useme2305:  I have seen that Stam Audio is "bringing to market" an SA-47 which appears as though they went the exact same route as their "SA-87" which was PCB's from www.vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com etc..I was actually wondering if they essentially put everything together here, and then packaged it for their website, I though to myself, hmmm... ???
my question is are you saying, useme2305, that what they are doing is frowned upon,  like the micandmod site? To clarify I am not affiliated with either, I am curious what the general consensus was or is with that..and should I avoid, kinda thing. In all honesty, full disclosure when I saw they were doing a 47 I was pretty stoked, then I realized it was Mr. Dany's mic and bought from Dany instead, I think I would rather give my $ to the horse not the rider, not to say Dany is a horse..Hahaa!  :P :-X oops..what do ya do? 8) anyway...

back on topic I have a question on capsules, there was a brief mention and I was hoping for some guidance also. I posted in another topic here     https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=65741.0   this same inquiry, but as it has been touched on here I thought I would ask here also.
                I purchased the "D-47" kit from Dany Bouchard at vintagePCB ( I assume everyone here knows who he is) and he was very helpful, recommending I come here and soak up as much as I can  ;D

Is it possible to get an honest, real life, practical opinion of the various capsules available? I apologize because I do not, in the slightest, mean to imply someone would be dishonest. I guess what I mean is that if capsule X is junk please lemme know. My knowledge of capsule subtleties is very limited, but at the same time I have tried to stay 100% faithful to the design and circuit Mr. Dany listed on his site...and of course not spend huge amounts of greenbacks!.  I do not know all of the capsules, but the ones I've seen discussed and observed on my own are..

Mr. Dany's D-7,  Peluso P-K47 and CEK47  (I have no idea what the difference is apart from size)   Heiserman HK47 (it appears that this is the one Stam is using)  Mic-Parts RK47, Advanced Audio AK47 (I asked Advanced Audio what the difference between theirs and the Mic-Parts RK47 and they said price and their AK47 is 6 Micron and the RK47 is 3 Micron) Also the Micandmod RM-K47 (I understand the consensus on that one :-X) I don't know if I mentiones also that Matt at Mic-Parts has been super attentive. I've emailed him half a dozen times and he gets back really quick and is thorough with his answers and knowledge of his products. I can also say he doesn't bad mouth others products either. I apologize again because I am in no way affiliated with Mic-Parts either, I just like to give praise to people when they rock and are trying really hard to help the community and...most importantly run a business that appears to have as much a concern for their customer base as their own bottom line! BOOM! and now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...
 
I was hoping to get possibly a little detail as to why someone may or may not like or dislike a particular piece.  I understand one person may not know everything about every capsule, but if you don't mind chiming in on what you do know about the one or ones you do know about.
It would be great if you guys, who know a whole lot more than do, could guide me. I understand that tone is subjective, but I also know that good is good regardless of personal preference...Please

HELP ME OBWAN, YOUR MY ONLY HOPE! (hope I don't get sued for that one :o)


e.oelberg

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2017, 04:35:33 PM »
ok....  what do you want to record ?

than it's easier to help you. also a u47 clone is not useful all the time...I don't use mine that much.

Rixsta

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2017, 06:25:05 PM »
hey, thanks so much for that people :)  It all started for me trying to find a good Class-A microphone after liking the M-Audio Nova but that led me to hearing samples of the Rode K2 which I thought was great but then I felt that the SM7B was even better in some ways (especially for more rocking songs) and I think ill get one of those as a second microphone for things that the DIY u47 wont work well with.

KrIVIUM2323
Ok yes good power supply = nice reservoir for the audio circuit.  Ive built about 10 Class-A amplifiers by Nelson Pass over the years great sounding amps but Ive never tried valves for that reason of the high voltage but may try soon.

ShaneSBG
Why is that d7 capsule so big on that first link you posted ?  Ive been quite interested in that U87i  DIY there :)

e.oelberg  .. I have some recordings in the post I did above of my old music, the youtube links. Im planning to record vocals with u47 fet most likely, and acoustic guitar perhaps. some kind of soul funk etc stuff perhaps with a nice 70s vibe to it.
Im using a Prism Orpheus for recording so thats one of the best out there so should be good enough!

I still need to think what Mic for acoustic nylon string guitar.  SM57 is the cheapest option.

but anyway..


Me and my Girlfriend have both had a listen to the samples from here
http://studio939.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/vocal-microphone-and-capsule-testing.html

and my Girlfriends virdict is this

U47 Beez   sounds closer and more intimate.  Sounds warmer.  Like this more, more rounded
U47 Heiz K7   closer but don't like the sound as much as the u47 beez, not as warm feels colder.
U47 Thiersch   Sounds nicer again like the u47 beez, rounder again.  Feels more depth to the tone on this and the beez.
U67   sounds a little harsh at times, balance feels different.  Bit like a sore throat, a bit scratchy
U87   again a bit sharp at times, not as nice to listen to.

I liked the U47s best I think Heiz, can't remember but its all personal choice anyway..

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2017, 08:29:31 PM »
For me (I am not sure if e.oelberg was asking me or not, but still  :))
Its going to be used exclusively for Male Vocals and Steel string Acoustic guitar, but primarily male baritone type vocal. I was hoping to get that coveted U47 amazing awesomeness
I Have the D-47 kit on its way...maybe I'm crazy, but who doesn't want a 47? I can say that I bought a WA87 from Warm Audio and it's great for my voice. I don't know if a 47 will be any better, maybe it wont be, maybe just different...I don't know.

Rixsta: I don't know much about that capsule. I was turned on to that site from a you tube video demonstration of a Clone U87 Build and have been looking for an amazing Vocal setup and the U47 is one of the best if not the best for male vocals... so after months of checking things out I finally had the means to pull the trigger on the 47 kit. Now I'm wanting to get some guidance on a capsule  8)

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2017, 09:10:22 PM »
You may be able to order a K870 type capsule from Neumann; I hear the Thiersch capsules are very good.  Be prepared to spend some serious cash.  The capsule IS the make or break component affecting the sound in any mic so money spent on the capsule is money well spent.   Hope your D47 build goes well and you enjoy using the mic.

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2017, 12:18:58 AM »
Rixsta: I checked that link out with those capsules...they do sound good. I didn't listen to the Beezneez because I remember it being out of my price point, but the Heiserman capsule was pretty cool..Thats doable

rmburrow : I'm not sure if you were addressing me, but I heard that Thiersch Blue Line capsule in what seems like a similar mic build as the D-47 Im going to make and it sounded great, as did the HK47.  Is the Neumann K870 different than the K87/K67 from Neumann? I looked at the Sennheiser/Neumann K49 and that thing was almost $1000!(Sennheiser owns Neumann now, yes?)

I checked out Roswell Pro Audio's "Mini K47" which I think is the same RK47 capsule being sold on Mic-Parts and honestly the Mini K47 sounds really good too.  I assume it would sound that way in my D-47?

I think the HK47 looks like a good one or Dany Bouchard's "D-7" is about the same price as the Heiserman capsule and I read on this site on another topic the D-7 was recommended. This is why I was asking! AHHH!!! haha! its a lot of fun doing this :-)

and anyone ele has some thoughts as well please I would love to know what you guys think about the 47 capsules. Does anyone like the Peluso 47 capsules?

micaddict

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2017, 03:56:56 AM »
BeesNeez, Thiersch, Heiserman and Dany are all a step above Peluso IMO.
That said, Dany had a Peluso in his first M49 prototype that sounded pretty good indeed. Unfortunately, it got damaged.

Regarding the higher price of the BeesNeez, keep in mind that you're looking at Australian dollars.
Also, they regularly have special discounts.

Rixsta

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2017, 06:38:32 AM »
Ive just been comparing the WA-87 to the U87 on youtube videos and I think the U87 sounds a lot more detailed and overall better, I was all exited for a moment thinking I could save myself all the DIY and just get a microphone quick.

Just wondering does anyone know about the "Alctron" "MK47" ?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Alctron+%22MK47%22&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwhOC_1fzTAhXmCsAKHb9oCKcQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1920&bih=974#safe=off&tbm=isch&q=%22Alctron%22+%22MK47%22&imgrc=_

I got someone to send me pics of the inside and it does not look as well made as ioaudio MK47.

Just wondering guys but lets say I want to diy a pretty good u47 mic and maybe upgrade some parts later but start with a really good capsule.  what kind of price are we looking at spending ? roughly  It looks like the DIY kits and parts mentioned on GroupDiy and other places are MUCH better than commercial clone offerings from many of the u47 and u87 so self build would definitely be the way to go as I get to customize the sound too.




« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 07:46:48 AM by Rixsta »

Rixsta

Re: Overwhelmed by DIY info on microphones!!!
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2017, 07:48:56 AM »
"Alctron" "MK47"