Cloned C800G ?!
« on: August 16, 2019, 09:41:15 AM »


Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2019, 11:59:18 AM »
Why is everyone omitting the original capsule which is available for sale, yet everyone claims it's 1:1 replica.

Here i go again, no original capsule, no c800 sound, bla, bla, bla  :'( :'( :'(

Khron

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2019, 02:41:04 PM »
How terribly different is it, from a "normal" K67 that is...
Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2019, 03:07:38 PM »
Well, if one goes to that extent to do exact layout of the board, i dont get why skip the most important element. The capsule.

Common belief is that Sony did an exact replica of Neumanns k67 capsule, which is not true. While that might have been the idea Sony's capsule has higher peak frequency (above 10k) and is way brighter, the peak is narrower. Its low end is way more present.

That difference in high end peak might be up to 5db compared to k67 in flat circuit.

It is IMHO and again IMHO closer to modern chinese capsules than original Neumann's k67.

And this is not even Neumann's capsule, looks like Heiserman.



Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2019, 09:49:10 PM »
Well, if one goes to that extent to do exact layout of the board, i dont get why skip the most important element. The capsule.

Common belief is that Sony did an exact replica of Neumanns k67 capsule, which is not true. While that might have been the idea Sony's capsule has higher peak frequency (above 10k) and is way brighter, the peak is narrower. Its low end is way more present.

That difference in high end peak might be up to 5db compared to k67 in flat circuit.

It is IMHO and again IMHO closer to modern chinese capsules than original Neumann's k67.

And this is not even Neumann's capsule, looks like Heiserman.
Which Chinese capsules though? The K67 ones, or the Chinese "CK12"?

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2019, 11:07:12 PM »
K67.

CK12 is strangely enough closer to Neumann's k67.

CK12 from 797 audio is almost spot on Neumann's k67. How and why, have no idea. They dont even share the same construction...

« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 11:11:32 PM by kingkorg »

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2019, 12:24:04 AM »
K67.

CK12 is strangely enough closer to Neumann's k67.

CK12 from 797 audio is almost spot on Neumann's k67. How and why, have no idea. They dont even share the same construction...
I believe they tune the capsule. Apparently Guosheng of 3U Audio actually worked for 797 for a really long time, which is how he learned to design and tune capsules.

I may have asked this before, but for the Chinese "CK12s" and 797's K67, do you need as much de-emphasis as you do with the usual Chinese K67s sold by Mic Parts and Advanced Audio? i.e. is it still a 470-680 pF capacitor that's recommended?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 02:48:38 AM by Icantthinkofaname »

Gus

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2019, 09:11:16 AM »
Why?

The link does not work.

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2019, 01:38:22 PM »
I believe they tune the capsule. Apparently Guosheng of 3U Audio actually worked for 797 for a really long time, which is how he learned to design and tune capsules.

I may have asked this before, but for the Chinese "CK12s" and 797's K67, do you need as much de-emphasis as you do with the usual Chinese K67s sold by Mic Parts and Advanced Audio? i.e. is it still a 470-680 pF capacitor that's recommended?

Idealy you would have to compare your build to true u87 and pick capacitor value that matches responses best. With CK12 from 797 audio i use 220pF!

A thing that has huge MEASUREABLE impact on sound,  way larger than any coupling capacitor type, or tube is this thing under C800g hub. It is the dome under the capsule, and foam. Combined with rather open grille it's a winner combo. This kills flutter around the capsule and the effect is very measureable! I add this to every mic i touch.

Neumann used this for a while with u87. One has to be carefull as foam/sponge debris might stick to the capsule.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 02:06:28 PM by kingkorg »

Delta Sigma

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2019, 02:24:12 PM »
A thing that has huge MEASUREABLE impact on sound,  way larger than any coupling capacitor type, or tube is this thing under C800g hub. It is the dome under the capsule, and foam. Combined with rather open grille it's a winner combo. This kills flutter around the capsule and the effect is very measureable! I add this to every mic i touch.

Neumann used this for a while with u87. One has to be carefull as foam/sponge debris might stick to the capsule.

Have you tried closed cell foam? I made a little angled or domed piece of foam for my M49. It won't dampen like open foam but (after heat gun sealing the cut) it doesn't have the risk of getting debris on the capsule. I used closed cell foam I have for canoe outfitting because I had it - I believe it's polyethylene.

https://www.harmonygear.com/products/9781/Harmony-Minicell-Foam-3-in.html


Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2019, 04:39:55 PM »
Thanks for the tip. Havent tried it, will do!

A material that works great is the one 3M uses for their foamy disposable earplugs. I got small amount i was able to use in several mics. Sadly i can not get hold of more, nor do i have idea how it is called. It's PVC based. It is after all designed for sound  ;D


https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-E-A-R-Classic-Earplugs-310-1001-Uncorded-Pillow-Pack-2000-Pair-Case/?N=5002385+8709322+8711405+8720539+3294780198&preselect=8720546+8740423&rt=rud

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2019, 06:57:22 PM »
Thanks for the tip. Havent tried it, will do!

A material that works great is the one 3M uses for their foamy disposable earplugs. I got small amount i was able to use in several mics. Sadly i can not get hold of more, nor do i have idea how it is called. It's PVC based. It is after all designed for sound  ;D


https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-E-A-R-Classic-Earplugs-310-1001-Uncorded-Pillow-Pack-2000-Pair-Case/?N=5002385+8709322+8711405+8720539+3294780198&preselect=8720546+8740423&rt=rud

How about basotect?

https://www.panasorb.eu/lng/en/foam-made-of-basotect/

RuudNL

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2019, 03:03:31 AM »
Some ideas about the Sony C800 by Brian Fox, for what it is worth...
http://www.foxaudioresearch.ca/c800clone.htm
There is a solution for every problem!

http://www.vansteenisaudio.nl

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2019, 11:45:14 AM »
Regarding the foam, you could use ethylene vinyl acetate.

cyrano

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2019, 08:32:52 PM »
Some ideas about the Sony C800 by Brian Fox, for what it is worth...
http://www.foxaudioresearch.ca/c800clone.htm

Thanks, Ruud. Interesting link!
Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2019, 03:17:59 AM »
Idealy you would have to compare your build to true u87 and pick capacitor value that matches responses best. With CK12 from 797 audio i use 220pF!

A thing that has huge MEASUREABLE impact on sound,  way larger than any coupling capacitor type, or tube is this thing under C800g hub. It is the dome under the capsule, and foam. Combined with rather open grille it's a winner combo. This kills flutter around the capsule and the effect is very measureable! I add this to every mic i touch.

Neumann used this for a while with u87. One has to be carefull as foam/sponge debris might stick to the capsule.
I've actually emailed 797 asking about their edge terminated capsules. And yeah, it definitely seems like it has the U87 response (though brighter). Their center terminated ones seem more like the TLM-103 in the sense that it's a broad flat presence boost.

JessJackson

Re: Cloned C800G ?!
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2019, 01:01:36 PM »
Idealy you would have to compare your build to true u87 and pick capacitor value that matches responses best. With CK12 from 797 audio i use 220pF!

A thing that has huge MEASUREABLE impact on sound,  way larger than any coupling capacitor type, or tube is this thing under C800g hub. It is the dome under the capsule, and foam. Combined with rather open grille it's a winner combo. This kills flutter around the capsule and the effect is very measureable! I add this to every mic i touch.

Neumann used this for a while with u87. One has to be carefull as foam/sponge debris might stick to the capsule.

yeah I agree sponge helps a lot, ive always put this inside all my mics. get resonant ringing in lower mids without it. I just cut up a soft dish sponge but there's probably better foam to buy


 

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