pucho812

Fake resistors
« on: October 02, 2020, 02:04:42 PM »
This was posted elsewhere.
Not my quote, I am just sharing.
“The brand RANK is a fake product,...they put carbon film resistor(2watt) inside porcelain cover and sell as wire wound 5 watt resistor....”

Is there any component they don’t fake?
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.


JohnRoberts

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2020, 04:20:15 PM »
That is pretty remarkable but not that surprising... This is why new component vendors have to be approved by engineering.
=====
Here's today's too much information anecdote... back decades ago a purchasing puke tried to win a cost saving reward by bringing in an even cheaper mixer pot... a couple pennies cheaper times a million pots a year would win him a nice wall plaque, and attaboy from management.

I tried to discourage him, but when he wouldn't leave me alone I authorized a production test with 1000 pcs... Since a single mixer uses tens of pots each, this was not a very large run, but guess what?...  the pots failed so miserably they had to be removed and replaced with good normal production pots. This made the factory workers and supervisors angry at me.  :-[

I scheduled a meeting with the purchasing puke, me, and the factory supervisor at the factory to review the test results. He got verbally beat up and left the meeting with his tail between his legs. The good news is he stopped trying to get me to authorize parts that are too cheap to work...  There is always a line of vendors trying to sell you stuff cheaper and cheaper...

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

pucho812

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2020, 06:02:41 PM »
is there any benefit to faking a resistor though?
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

living sounds

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2020, 06:13:52 PM »
is there any benefit to faking a resistor though?

There must be...

If you let it burn more than 2W, will it smell RANK?

pucho812

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2020, 07:35:48 PM »
There must be...

If you let it burn more than 2W, will it smell RANK?

Anything for a dollar
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

EmRR

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2020, 11:51:02 PM »
This makes as much sense as the used condom story......only in a place with cheap/slave labor. 
Best,

Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders

"I think this can be better. Some kind of control that's intuitive, not complicated like a single knob" - Crusty

"Back when everything sounde

JohnRoberts

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2020, 12:01:58 AM »
is there any benefit to faking a resistor though?
It was a resistor...

Did you test it on the bench to see how many watts it would dissipate? The increased surface area could help that. 

I applaud their capitalistic impulse, maybe not the rigor of their engineering.

JR
 
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2020, 04:19:34 AM »
Recently I bought a 1% resistor kit with E24 Values from a chinese eBay seller, I think I got around 300 resistors, when measured they turned out to be more than 10% off their spec'ed value, so that was a useless buy...

gyraf

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2020, 05:54:22 AM »
E24 at 10% is a thing of beauty  ;D
..note to self: don't let Harman run your company..

volker

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2020, 06:09:03 AM »
No sympathy, even after decades of known fakes of all sorts people still try to save cents by buying cheap sh*t in the back alley. Why would you try to skimp on parts where the performance actually matters, instead of known brands from trusted vendors. But the vintage meter for 200 bucks and the case for 300, not a second hesitation when it comes to buying those. As long as there are gullible fools, there is going to be fakes. You get what you pay for  :).


ruffrecords

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2020, 09:54:44 AM »
I cannot understand anyone buying standard components off anyone other than a reputable distributor. The savings are minuscule and the potential headache enormous.

The only exception I have made to this rule is if I need an obsolete part.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

JohnRoberts

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2020, 10:05:38 AM »
No sympathy, even after decades of known fakes of all sorts people still try to save cents by buying cheap sh*t in the back alley. Why would you try to skimp on parts where the performance actually matters, instead of known brands from trusted vendors. But the vintage meter for 200 bucks and the case for 300, not a second hesitation when it comes to buying those. As long as there are gullible fools, there is going to be fakes. You get what you pay for  :).
+1 The saying "buyer beware" is so old it was first written in latin (caveat emptor).

I worked for 15 years at a very sharp pencil (cost conscious) company and buying parts too cheap to work is no cost saving at all.

If a price seems too good to be true, it often is.
=====
I have a similar aversion to buying expensive components that are far better than needed, but that is a lesser problem as long as you have plenty of money. 

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

pucho812

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2020, 01:08:37 PM »
I cannot understand anyone buying standard components off anyone other than a reputable distributor. The savings are minuscule and the potential headache enormous.

The only exception I have made to this rule is if I need an obsolete part.

Cheers

Ian

Yes but there are reputable obsoleted parts companies too. Places where their singular purpose is stocking obsoleted parts until it’s gone.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

pucho812

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2020, 01:09:51 PM »
It was a resistor...

Did you test it on the bench to see how many watts it would dissipate? The increased surface area could help that. 

I applaud their capitalistic impulse, maybe not the rigor of their engineering.

JR
I did not deal with this first hand. The photo and quote came from elsewhere. Was just sharing it as I found it interesting.
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

JohnRoberts

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2020, 02:24:49 PM »
I did not deal with this first hand. The photo and quote came from elsewhere. Was just sharing it as I found it interesting.
Sorry...  If you take apart one of those good ceramic power resistors you will likely find a cylindrical looking resistor inside (wire wound IIRC, but they probably use different cores for non-inductive series)... I can't remember the last time I was inside one of them... many moons ago.

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

Rusan

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2020, 04:47:19 PM »
Is there any component they don’t fake?

About 20 years ago, Richardson Electronics was selling Dutch-made 50's/60's Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8/6922s.  Only they weren't.  They were mediocre, late production U.S.-made Amperex.  The internal structures looked pretty similar, but you could easily spot the fake without even reading the factory date and manufacture codes.  The Bugle Boy logo on the real ones were stamped, with a chalky ink that would easily scratch off with a fingernail.  The fakes were screen printed.

Around that same time, a Chinese tube factory began making counterfeit Telefunken 12AX7s that were visually so similar to a real Telefunken, you had to really know what to look for to tell them apart.

Both the above were pricey, but considerably cheaper than the going price for the genuine articles back in that day.  As JR said, if a price seems too good to be true, it often is.  AAMOF, almost always.

Being a guitar player, among my favorites are the fake Chinese Les Pauls that showed up on the U.S. market about 15 or 20 years ago (aka "Chibson" or "Fibson").  Lots of superficial exterior cosmetic differences, but unless you've owned/played/been around real Gibsons enough to notice all the little details, it would be very easy to fall for the alluring trap of a sub-$500 USD Les Paul.  Thousands of people did, and today there are endless web pages dedicated to spotting the fakes.  I guarantee you somebody at the factory that made the fakes has watched every one of them at least a hundred times and "corrected" the telltale details, kinda like how a virus mutates to thwart vaccines and preventive measures.

Pitiful stuff; it seems there are those who'll gladly work harder to scam people that they would have if they'd have just done it honestly in the first place.

Rusan
“I’m sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It’s just been too intelligent to come here.” - Arthur C. Clarke

pucho812

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2020, 04:48:58 PM »
About 20 years ago, Richardson Electronics was selling Dutch-made 50's/60's Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8/6922s.  Only they weren't.  They were mediocre, late production U.S.-made Amperex.  The internal structures looked pretty similar, but you could easily spot the fake without even reading the factory date and manufacture codes.  The Bugle Boy logo on the real ones were stamped, with a chalky ink that would easily scratch off with a fingernail.  The fakes were screen printed.

Around that same time, a Chinese tube factory began making counterfeit Telefunken 12AX7s that were visually so similar to a real Telefunken, you had to really know what to look for to tell them apart.

Both the above were pricey, but considerably cheaper than the going price for the genuine articles back in that day.  As JR said, if a price seems too good to be true, it often is.  AAMOF, almost always.

Being a guitar player, among my favorites are the fake Chinese Les Pauls that showed up on the U.S. market about 15 or 20 years ago (aka "Chibson" or "Fibson").  Lots of superficial exterior cosmetic differences, but unless you've owned/played/been around real Gibsons enough to notice all the little details, it would be very easy to fall for the alluring trap of a sub-$500 USD Les Paul.  Thousands of people did, and today there are endless web pages dedicated to spotting the fakes.  I guarantee you somebody at the factory that made the fakes has watched every one of them at least a hundred times and "corrected" the telltale details, kinda like how a virus mutates to thwart vaccines and preventive measures.

Pitiful stuff; it seems there are those who'll gladly work harder to scam people that they would have if they'd have just done it honestly in the first place.

Rusan

Ia that the lawsuit copies or was that term strictly for the stuff from Japan?
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.

Rusan

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2020, 01:00:53 AM »
No, these aren't the infamous "lawsuit" Les Paul copies made way back when by Ibanez in Japan (which are actually quite decent guitars, BTW).  Those had an Ibanez logo on the headstock. The ones I'm referring to were made in China post-2000, and are blatant copycat counterfeits right down to the Gibson logo and split diamond headstock inlay.

Here are a couple of articles with side-by-side photos of the real and the fake.

http://aws2.gibson.com/news-lifestyle/features/en-us/CounterfeitGibsons.aspx

http://www.detectafake.com/viewProduct/?269612

About 10 or 15 years ago, a guy came into a local music store with a fake Les Paul he'd bought online as "Gibson factory overproduction," and wanted some setup tweaks done on it.  The owner instantly recognized it as one of the Chinese fakes.  The poor fellow didn't believe him and angrily stormed out.  A few days later he came back and apologized, after he discovered he'd indeed been scammed.  He'd always wanted a Les Paul, and was crestfallen.  IIRC, the owner gave him about $150 trade-in credit on a much better guitar and he exited the store licking his wounds, feeling a little better, a little poorer and a lot wiser.

To this day, it hangs on the wall in the store, but it's not for sale.  A sign on the fretboard identifies it as fake, as a FYI and admonition to others to be very careful when buying what you believe to be a Les Paul.  The first time I walked in after he'd acquired the guitar, the owner took it down and asked me if I could tell what was wrong. It was easy. You could immediately spot top hat knobs instead of speed knobs, something not quite right about the headstock inlay, the truss rod cover was all wrong, the tune-o-matic bridge was made differently, and the fret dress and fingerboard binding were sloppy and rough.  But, if you were someone who wasn't acquainted with the real thing.... :(

A lot of people have bought them purposely, with the intent to upgrade the electronics, hardware and fret dress and have a pretty good sub-$1000 "Les Paul." But, I feel sooo sorry for the unaware multitudes that've been ripped off, especially those who've dreamed of owning a Les Paul but couldn't afford it and thought a bona fide miracle had happened to them.     


Rusan
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 02:34:36 AM by Rusan »
“I’m sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It’s just been too intelligent to come here.” - Arthur C. Clarke

JohnRoberts

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2020, 10:12:30 AM »
No, these aren't the infamous "lawsuit" Les Paul copies made way back when by Ibanez in Japan (which are actually quite decent guitars, BTW).  Those had an Ibanez logo on the headstock. The ones I'm referring to were made in China post-2000, and are blatant copycat counterfeits right down to the Gibson logo and split diamond headstock inlay.

Here are a couple of articles with side-by-side photos of the real and the fake.

http://aws2.gibson.com/news-lifestyle/features/en-us/CounterfeitGibsons.aspx

http://www.detectafake.com/viewProduct/?269612

About 10 or 15 years ago, a guy came into a local music store with a fake Les Paul he'd bought online as "Gibson factory overproduction," and wanted some setup tweaks done on it.  The owner instantly recognized it as one of the Chinese fakes.  The poor fellow didn't believe him and angrily stormed out.  A few days later he came back and apologized, after he discovered he'd indeed been scammed.  He'd always wanted a Les Paul, and was crestfallen.  IIRC, the owner gave him about $150 trade-in credit on a much better guitar and he exited the store licking his wounds, feeling a little better, a little poorer and a lot wiser.

To this day, it hangs on the wall in the store, but it's not for sale.  A sign on the fretboard identifies it as fake, as a FYI and admonition to others to be very careful when buying what you believe to be a Les Paul.  The first time I walked in after he'd acquired the guitar, the owner took it down and asked me if I could tell what was wrong. It was easy. You could immediately spot top hat knobs instead of speed knobs, something not quite right about the headstock inlay, the truss rod cover was all wrong, the tune-o-matic bridge was made differently, and the fret dress and fingerboard binding were sloppy and rough.  But, if you were someone who wasn't acquainted with the real thing.... :(

A lot of people have bought them purposely, with the intent to upgrade the electronics, hardware and fret dress and have a pretty good sub-$1000 "Les Paul." But, I feel sooo sorry for the unaware multitudes that've been ripped off, especially those who've dreamed of owning a Les Paul but couldn't afford it and thought a bona fide miracle had happened to them.     


Rusan
I've told this story before.  A guy I worked with at Peavey had a get-rich scheme after he left. He bought a container load of guitars from China, with visions of huge profits from reselling them in the US. Sadly after the container arrived he discovered that the guitars were barely worth what little he paid for them. Note: when you buy a container load of cheap crap from China, you have to pay in advance, and there are no take backs. To have a successful relationship with Chinese vendors they need to be reliant on future orders to try to keep you happy in the present. It is often necessary to have boots on the ground (a US worker inside the Chinese factory) to answer questions and keep them honest. When they are left to decide undefined manufacturing issues by themselves they don't always make the best choices (best for them is not always best for the customer). 

JR
Don't only half-ass tune your drums. Visit https://circularscience.com to hear what properly "cleared" drums sound like.

pucho812

Re: Fake resistors
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2020, 12:39:18 PM »
yes, you need to have boots on the ground over seas to get anything done properly.
A company I used to work for, was making consoles. We would have the boards made and stuffed over seas and we would then assemble all the  stuffed boards into a working desk. Anyway we did a sample run of boards to make, I forget how many we did the first run, but we did a small batch.  On one of the stuffed boards, it was marked clear as day in the silk screen that a specific  3 pin header  went on a specific side of a specific   board. This was because that connector ran  out to an off board headphone jack on the metal work. Well sure enough the 3 pin header was on the wrong side of the board on all the first run. After a skype call or two to the factory, we made it clear as day what we needed. Sure enough, second run of boards and the connector had not changed sides.  This caused one side of the headphones to short to ground if left as is. so much for we test all the boards. :o
You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is.


 

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