[Solved] Behringer B1 (Brazil) - is this a fake/counterfeit B1?!

[alema_o]

Hi guys, thanks for having me in the forum, it's really great to read all the great posts, learn, and to be able to send some questions here.

I'm in a funny situation with a Behringer B1. A colleague had left his B1 mic with us about 5 years ago, because it was not working. We never did anything with it, but recently I started studying electronics and decided to bring it out to try to find a problem and fix it. After looking at it carefully, the components seemed to be all in a good condition visually, and I just remade the solder from the XLR to the board, because it was using a very thin line, and the 3rd pin had actually disconnected (not sure if it was in my hand). To my surprise, after redoing the solder, the mic worked and I was happy that I might have fixed it.

After some minutes of testing, I realised that the mic seems to "fade out" after using it for some seconds. It's as if it "charges" and works for a few seconds, and then it sort of "discharges" and the output level starts going down, until it has no sound. If we keep speaking on it, it does not recover, but if we stop speaking for about a minute, then the signal recovers and after a few seconds it starts fading out again.

Obviously, I want to find the fixes for this mic. But my problem is much stranger than that.

After analyzing the mic a lot, and then looking for info about its circuit on the internet, I realised that this mic has a very odd PCB, with big differences from the pictures and videos I found online.

I am sending some pictures attached to this post, so you guys can give me an opinion if this mic I have in my hands is fake/counterfeit, or what.

Here are the pictures of my B1:



And a pic from a B1 found on the web:



The issues I see when comparing with photos of other B1s from the web are:

1 - The PCB has no printed serial number. It does have some strange handwriting, though.
2 - There are diodes missing. The drawing of the component is on the board, but the holes are crystal clean, it's as if no diode has ever been put there. The photos of other B1s from the web actually have those diodes! These are D6 and D3.
3 - There is a Resistor 22 (R22) which has a single metal line soldered, which does not exist on the B1s I found on the web
4 - The cables coming from the diaphragm have a different path on my mic, than on the mics from the web. On mine, they are curled together through the same hole. On the other mics, they are coming separately form the diaphragm into the board.
5 - The red components near the XLR (two red squares, I don't know what they are yet) don't fit correctly on the mic structure, they are actually pushed towards the capacitors located by their side when the metal XLR mount is in its place. It looks like they should be sitting under/inside the XLR mount, in their own space, not being pushed towards the board.

I've attached some other pics on the post, showing the details I mentioned above on my B1. I didn't embed them here to keep the post a little bit shorter, but they are in the attachments if anyone wants to see.


Has anyone seen something like this? Or do you think this is a fake one, for sure?

Thanks a lot!

 

[kingkorg]

It is fine, not fake. There were just several revisions.

 

[alema_o]

It is fine, not fake. There were just several revisions.

Thanks @kingkorg! That is refreshing.

In that case I would like to ask for some help on finding out what is causing this behavior, where the mic "fades out" after receiving sound in the diaphragm for a few seconds.

I'm very new to the forum, should I start a new thread about that?

 

[kingkorg]

Thanks @kingkorg! That is refreshing.

In that case I would like to ask for some help on finding out what is causing this behavior, where the mic "fades out" after receiving sound in the diaphragm for a few seconds.

I'm very new to the forum, should I start a new thread about that?

Could it be the breath moisture shorting the capsule? Does it happen with instruments, or at some distance with pop filter?

 

[hodad]

I have a couple of similar mics that had very dirty capsule diaphragms that would cause the audio to fade and then come back. I cleaned the capsules and they sound great now. You could take the head basket off and have a look.

 

[alema_o]

Could it be the breath moisture shorting the capsule? Does it happen with instruments, or at some distance with pop filter?

Would it be that sensitive? It's really "unusable" the way it is behaving now.

I will have to try, to give you that feedback, but we never saw a mic that behaves like that. The history is that it was defective to the point that the owner simply left it behind at our workplace (an audio school).

I'll try some more tomorrow and get back to you with that answer, for sure!

 

[alema_o]

I have a couple of similar mics that had very dirty capsule diaphragms that would cause the audio to fade and then come back. I cleaned the capsules and they sound great now. You could take the head basket off and have a look.

Good to know @hodad! It does have light spots on it, but I didn't think it looked dirty as to require a cleaning though.

 

[kingkorg]

Would it be that sensitive? It's really "unusable" the way it is behaving now.

I will have to try, to give you that feedback, but we never saw a mic that behaves like that. The history is that it was defective to the point that the owner simply left it behind at our workplace (an audio school).

I'll try some more tomorrow and get back to you with that answer, for sure!

Yes, that is absolutely normal for condenser mics like that with center terminated capsules. You shouldn't use it without pop filter at close proximity (vocals).

 

[alema_o]

Yes, that is absolutely normal for condenser mics like that with center terminated capsules. You shouldn't use it without pop filter at close proximity (vocals).

That's amazing, we'll definitely try much more with that insight, it really sounds similar to what is happening. We honestly never saw this behavior in any situation in 15 years of school, or anywhere else, so this was very odd for us.

I saw another thread where you participated, and the OP also had to redo the soldering on his B1. The conductors from the xlr to the board are very thin, and the soldering looks kind of bad at most points where there are cables soldered on the board, so maybe that was the only problem after all...

I'll come back about it tomorrow, thanks again.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Kingkorg already answered but it's a different revision. Current ones are radically different using surface mounted components. The missing components were probably discovered to be unnecessary. I genuinely doubt any company would've wasted their time making counterfeit Behringers back when they still used through hole components (they've had surface mount ones for a few years now).

As for the audio issue, it's probably a dirty capsule or the capsule has been exposed to a lot of moisture from breath. Stick it in a bag with silica gel for a few days and see if that helps. If not take off the headbasket and see if the capsule is dirty.

 

[alema_o]

Kingkorg already answered but it's a different revision. Current ones are radically different using surface mounted components. The missing components were probably discovered to be unnecessary.

As for the audio issue, it's probably a dirty capsule or the capsule has been exposed to a lot of moisture from breath. Stick it in a bag with silica gel for a few days and see if that helps. If not take off the headbasket and see if the capsule is dirty.

Thanks a lot, seems like it's common sense with everyone that this should be the problem. I will do that, then test the mic in different ways to see how it responds and I'll come back in a few days with the outcome.

Thanks a lot guys

 

[MicMaven]

It is fine, not fake. There were just several revisions.

Well... Not so fast, Dick Tracy!

These are images of my Behringer B-1 which I purchased around ... um ... 2000 I think, which bear the same revision ID numbers, showing different components and product markings. While Behringer/Beijing 797 Audio may have revised the boards over time, it is logical to assume boards bearing the same revision numbers should be the same. Um ... I think. James - K8JHR

 

[Mr. Moscode]

Check any connections to the board from the capsule for dirt. Also, use near the sea can cause tiny salt deposits on the board. At gigohm impedances it takes very little to drain the charge.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Well... Not so fast, Dick Tracy!

These are images of my Behringer B-1 which I purchased around ... um ... 2000 I think, which bear the same revision ID numbers, showing different components and product markings. While Behringer/Beijing 797 Audio may have revised the boards over time, it is logical to assume boards bearing the same revision numbers should be the same. Um ... I think. James - K8JHR

View attachment 106498

By that logic yours could be fake because the inductors are a different colour than the ones pictured Recording Hacks. There's really no reason for them to change the revision number on the PCB for a small change in components. Why waste money making a new board and silkscreening them when you can just leave out a couple diodes?

 

[alema_o]

Well... Not so fast, Dick Tracy!

These are images of my Behringer B-1 which I purchased around ... um ... 2000 I think, which bear the same revision ID numbers, showing different components and product markings. While Behringer/Beijing 797 Audio may have revised the boards over time, it is logical to assume boards bearing the same revision numbers should be the same. Um ... I think. James - K8JHR

View attachment 106498

Not to mention that everyone's mic has some sort of serial number printed on the board, and the one I got doesn't have any. It does have a hand writing though

 

[alema_o]

Check any connections to the board from the capsule for dirt. Also, use near the sea can cause tiny salt deposits on the board. At gigohm impedances it takes very little to drain the charge.

I see... The soldering points have a glue over them, which are yellow already.. I though of redoing them... do you think cleaning the board with Isopropyl alcohol and an anti static brush is a good idea?

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Not to mention that everyone's mic has some sort of serial number printed on the board, and the one I got doesn't have any. It does have a hand writing though

That's another thing that's changed over the years. The current production B1 and B2 Pros don't have serials either. There's no reason to think yours is fake, I can't imagine anyone making counterfeit Behringer mics years ago. Unless you bought yours from AliExpress or some other unreputable source you shouldn't assume it's fake.

 

[kingkorg]

That mic isn't fake. You don't have to redo hot glue, or clean those exact spots, they are not in hiZ area. There's a version with and without that diode, schematics on the web point to that.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

I see... The soldering points have a glue over them, which are yellow already.. I though of redoing them... do you think cleaning the board with Isopropyl alcohol and an anti static brush is a good idea?

If it's anything like the glue in the current B2 Pros don't bother with it, it shouldn't make a difference, it's just covering the solder joints on the wires the XLR.

 

[alema_o]

Hey guys, we have tested the mic taking a little bit more care, from further away, making sure we didn't blow a huge pop into the diaphragm, and - indeed - the mic seems to keep working.

We still have to put it to a better test by recording instruments and even a vocal to see how it behaves (if it does not fade as I described previously), but it seems like it was really that sensitivity of the diaphragm with the terminals in the center as @kingkorg explained.

I will bring the final news when we test it thoroughly next week. This is amazing news and lesson for me, we had never heard of anything like that in any Audio book, course, or anywhere. We knew that condensers were more sensitive to high levels than dynamic mics, but the difference between a diaphragm with the terminals in the center or outside was something we had never heard of anywhere.

Only the Electronic geniuses here have that vision. Thanks for sharing.

Now, I believe the mic was dead before only due to the bad soldering of the XLR terminal (blue/ground) we had to re-solder on the board, as that was the only thing we did to make it come back to life.

This is 5+ years after my colleague just left it behind because it was not working! haha! He was stoked to find out that it is coming back to life.