1073 earth connections

GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

wells2p

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
72
I know this has been addressed in the past through searching previous posts but just want to make sure I'm clear on a few things.
Given the pictures shown below I am making a few assumptions:
1. shield from cable between input xlr and Mic input Tx: shield is connected to xlr pin 1 and then earthed at the input tx? (tab attached to case?)
2. shield from cable between output tx and phase switch: shield is earthed at output tx only.
3. shield from cable between phase switch and output xlr; shield is earthed at xlr pin 1
4. B- (0v) is connected to earth (e.g chassis) at one and one place only? ( which is going to be my star gound for B- 0v )

please confirm and thanks again
 

Attachments

  • earth connections.jpg
    earth connections.jpg
    176.5 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
@ruffrecords so after a cursory reading it looks like:
  • pin 1 earthed at every xlr.
  • star ground ( B- / Signal ref ) earthed

    Questions
  • the article mentioned above shows signal ref earthed at power supply safety ground but I have an external ps. does this mean I should carry over the safety ground from my ps to my mic pre as that which I am earthing to?
  • how about input and output trannies? should I earth the case of both?
  • what do I do with the shield between:
    • input trans and xlr.
    • input trans and sensitivity switch
    • output trans and phase switch
    • phase switch and output xlr?
TYSM in advance for your help.

Paul
 
Last edited:
That is a fantastic read, but will it answer your question? Not really.
The original module plugged into a console. Inside the console, the chassis connection had a solid wire directly tied to console metal, and the B- had a wire out to an isolated B- bus. The B- buses all routed to the power panel where they connected at one point on the panel, and that point was then wired out to a chassis screw labeled "Technical Earth". You want to copy this. If you have a single module in a box but no amphenol connector, the B- still has to connect to your metal chassis at one point, usually the same place where the AC plug ground is connected to chassis. If you have a rack of four or whatever, the B-'s bus together and tie back at Technical Earth at one point, rather than at each module. If that rack had a remote power supply, you would bring both chassis and B- out to the PSU brick on individual wires, and tie them inside as described above.
Breaking this rule is the root problem in many Neve console mods and "improvements", where there is audio leakage or low level hum.
Mike
 
Thanks Mike!

My power supply is in fact external and feeds B+, B-, and +48 to my standalone unit via a 4 pin aircraft connector.
Since I will be creating additional units I suppose I could use the fourth pin of my connector to carry my chassis earth back to my power supply?
Please confirm.

Additionally what about my questions above eg:
  • how about input and output trannies? should I earth the case of both?
  • what do I do with the shield between:
    • input trans and xlr.
    • input trans and sensitivity switch
    • output trans and phase switch
    • phase switch and output xlr?
I appreciate your help\
Paul
 
I know this has been addressed in the past through searching previous posts but just want to make sure I'm clear on a few things.
It is a long time since I saw the inside of a real 1073 but I will try to rememeber
Given the pictures shown below I am making a few assumptions:
1. shield from cable between input xlr and Mic input Tx: shield is connected to xlr pin 1 and then earthed at the input tx? (tab attached to case?)
The 1073 does not have an input XLR. The 10468 input transformer was I think located close to the multipin connector of the module and a twisted pair ran direct from the transformer hot and cold to the connector. That is what TP means in your schematic. To wire to an XLR connect pin 1 to chassis at the XLR. YOu can run a twin screened cable from the XLR to the input transformer. You can connect the screen at pin 1 or at both ends.
2. shield from cable between output tx and phase switch: shield is earthed at output tx only.
Neve always showed connections to a screen if there were any on the two wire (the schematic you have is call a two wire in Neve speak). SO just follow the two wire. The screen is connected at the transformer but open at the phase change switch
3. shield from cable between phase switch and output xlr; shield is earthed at xlr pin 1
Yes
4. B- (0v) is connected to earth (e.g chassis) at one and one place only? ( which is going to be my star gound for B- 0v )
In a real 1073 the chassis connection comes out on pin V and B- (analog 0V) on another pin. In a stand alone unit B- should be connected to the 0V of the power supply (assuming this is all in one box). Then a single wire should go from the power supply 0V to a chassi bolt right next to the main input connector. The mains safety earth from the mains connector should also be connected directly to this bolt.

Cheers

Ian
 
I know this has been addressed in the past through searching previous posts but just want to make sure I'm clear on a few things.
Given the pictures shown below I am making a few assumptions:
1. shield from cable between input xlr and Mic input Tx: shield is connected to xlr pin 1 and then earthed at the input tx? (tab attached to case?)
2. shield from cable between output tx and phase switch: shield is earthed at output tx only.
3. shield from cable between phase switch and output xlr; shield is earthed at xlr pin 1
4. B- (0v) is connected to earth (e.g chassis) at one and one place only? ( which is going to be my star gound for B- 0v )
Are you trying to understand how this wiring is done in the 1073 or are you building something and trying to understand how to wire your device?

As mentioned, the 1073 was a module like an over-sized 500 series that plugs into a card-edge connector. So the various letters correspond to pins in the connector.

But if you're building your own 1073 or parts of it with a standalone enclosure and XLRs, then you might want to follow the general rules about I/O wiring which is that:

1. The shield of the input cable is connected to pint 1. Pin 1 should be connected to the chassis at the entry point over the shortest possible length of wire. The length of this pin 1 to chassis connection will influence the frequency of RF that might be radiated within the enclosure so with RF being what it is today, this is actually important and only become more important over time. There are XLR connectors that internally connect pin 1 to a spike around one of the XLR screw holes so that it stabs the chassis.

2,3. Ideally the output should be wired the same as described in case 1 above. Unfortunately because the transformer primary has DC running through it, you probably can't just move the phase switch to the other side of the OT. But I would still make the pin 1 to chassis connection at the entry point and NOT at the OT output as suggested in the schematic. I don't think this should be a problem for the transformer shield which would still be connected to the shield of the cable.

4. There are several "ground" references in a typical electrical device with a metal enclosure (note that this does not fully apply to a plastic enclosure which is not recommended for a circuit with mains and certainly not for a circuit with a lot of magnetics like the 1073):

earth ground / protective earth / PE
Path for fault current protects the operator from a shock. This earth ground wire from the mains input should (must) be connected to the chassis at the entry with a solid mechanical connection. In a DIY project this is usually a beefy bolt with toothed washers and beefy crimped ring terminals for the connected wires.

chassis ground
Path for fault currents protects the operator from a shock and shields the enclosed electronics from EMI. Again, chassis and earth ground should be connected at mains entry with a beefy mechanical connection.

0V / signal ground
The circuit ground used by amplifiers and other non-safety related grounds. This is sometimes further broken down to AGND and PGND mean analog ground and power ground (and some use DGND to mean dirty / digital ground for relays, LED drivers, microcontrollers and so on).
0V of all circuits should converge like the trunk of a tree (which is sometimes referred to using the misnomer "star ground") at the 0V of the last filter capacitor of the power supply. Like the trunk of a tree, it should be think and solid. Using the same solder joint or another directly next to it, a separate wire should run to the aforementioned chassis bolt to connect the power supply 0V to chassis ground and on to earth ground.
Although the exact arrangement of these last bits is subject to some interpretation by others here.
 
It is a long time since I saw the inside of a real 1073 but I will try to rememeber

The 1073 does not have an input XLR. The 10468 input transformer was I think located close to the multipin connector of the module and a twisted pair ran direct from the transformer hot and cold to the connector. That is what TP means in your schematic. To wire to an XLR connect pin 1 to chassis at the XLR. YOu can run a twin screened cable from the XLR to the input transformer. You can connect the screen at pin 1 or at both ends.

Neve always showed connections to a screen if there were any on the two wire (the schematic you have is call a two wire in Neve speak). SO just follow the two wire. The screen is connected at the transformer but open at the phase change switch

Yes

In a real 1073 the chassis connection comes out on pin V and B- (analog 0V) on another pin. In a stand alone unit B- should be connected to the 0V of the power supply (assuming this is all in one box). Then a single wire should go from the power supply 0V to a chassi bolt right next to the main input connector. The mains safety earth from the mains connector should also be connected directly to this bolt.

Cheers

Ian
thank you Ian, I always appreciate and value your input. Looking forward to posting pics of this thing when I'm done. It's actually the first electronic anything I've ever built and I'm most proud of it I must say.
 
Are you trying to understand how this wiring is done in the 1073 or are you building something and trying to understand how to wire your device?

As mentioned, the 1073 was a module like an over-sized 500 series that plugs into a card-edge connector. So the various letters correspond to pins in the connector.

But if you're building your own 1073 or parts of it with a standalone enclosure and XLRs, then you might want to follow the general rules about I/O wiring which is that:

1. The shield of the input cable is connected to pint 1. Pin 1 should be connected to the chassis at the entry point over the shortest possible length of wire. The length of this pin 1 to chassis connection will influence the frequency of RF that might be radiated within the enclosure so with RF being what it is today, this is actually important and only become more important over time. There are XLR connectors that internally connect pin 1 to a spike around one of the XLR screw holes so that it stabs the chassis.

2,3. Ideally the output should be wired the same as described in case 1 above. Unfortunately because the transformer primary has DC running through it, you probably can't just move the phase switch to the other side of the OT. But I would still make the pin 1 to chassis connection at the entry point and NOT at the OT output as suggested in the schematic. I don't think this should be a problem for the transformer shield which would still be connected to the shield of the cable.

4. There are several "ground" references in a typical electrical device with a metal enclosure (note that this does not fully apply to a plastic enclosure which is not recommended for a circuit with mains and certainly not for a circuit with a lot of magnetics like the 1073):

earth ground / protective earth / PE
Path for fault current protects the operator from a shock. This earth ground wire from the mains input should (must) be connected to the chassis at the entry with a solid mechanical connection. In a DIY project this is usually a beefy bolt with toothed washers and beefy crimped ring terminals for the connected wires.

chassis ground
Path for fault currents protects the operator from a shock and shields the enclosed electronics from EMI. Again, chassis and earth ground should be connected at mains entry with a beefy mechanical connection.

0V / signal ground
The circuit ground used by amplifiers and other non-safety related grounds. This is sometimes further broken down to AGND and PGND mean analog ground and power ground (and some use DGND to mean dirty / digital ground for relays, LED drivers, microcontrollers and so on).
0V of all circuits should converge like the trunk of a tree (which is sometimes referred to using the misnomer "star ground") at the 0V of the last filter capacitor of the power supply. Like the trunk of a tree, it should be think and solid. Using the same solder joint or another directly next to it, a separate wire should run to the aforementioned chassis bolt to connect the power supply 0V to chassis ground and on to earth ground.
Although the exact arrangement of these last bits is subject to some interpretation by others here.
thanks! yes building stand alone unit with home built boards and external PS :) close to being done and was stuck on earth / screen connections. The replies in this thread have given me the answers I needed so thanks again for taking the time to respond! cheers - Paul
 
In the original module, the transformers mounted to the chassis. You want to copy the console so do the same.
I have some 1073's on deck for a recap and will prolly have them open by end of weekend and can snap a pic, but theres tons already on the interwebs. I have some ["official clone manufacturer" name withheld] 1084's as well for switch cleaning.

Regarding the four pin wiring, I personally would not make a rack for someone without a fifth pin/wire for rack chassis and have +24 and +48 share the B- bonded together in the power supply. If I HAD to do it, I would go for a shielded cable and use the shield to pass chassis, but the shell connections on the XLR's are not as solid as the pin contacts. In milliohms they jump around a bit.
Mike
 
In the original module, the transformers mounted to the chassis. You want to copy the console so do the same.
I have some 1073's on deck for a recap and will prolly have them open by end of weekend and can snap a pic, but theres tons already on the interwebs. I have some ["official clone manufacturer" name withheld] 1084's as well for switch cleaning.

Regarding the four pin wiring, I personally would not make a rack for someone without a fifth pin/wire for rack chassis and have +24 and +48 share the B- bonded together in the power supply. If I HAD to do it, I would go for a shielded cable and use the shield to pass chassis, but the shell connections on the XLR's are not as solid as the pin contacts. In milliohms they jump around a bit.
Mike
Hi Mike,

actually the four conductor wire between my PS and mic pre / eq has a shield! :)
(West Penn Wire 3244-4 Conductor 18 Gauge Shielded Cable CMR )

So I can use:
> one wire for +28( I'm regulating down to 24 in the box),
> one wire for +48 (my PS uses a multiplier for this)
> one wire for B- (48 is already sharing this.)
> shield for chassis.
> which leaves one extra wire

sound good?

Paul
 
The 0 Volts (of the 48 Volt phantom supply SHOULD really be 'floating between the supply box and the module because Phantom is referred to CHASSIS at pin 1 of the mic XLR for the simple reason that the plus 48 is applied via a pair of resistors to the MIC input signal. Failure to do this CAN lead to 'noises' picked up on an incoming mic cable getting added to the mic signal. After all input balance (CMRR) is not particularly good above a few KHz although the interwinding capacitance of the mic transformer can provide a blessing in that it constitutes a Low pass filter. Many years ago I had to 'fine tune' the common mode rejection by adding small capacitors (100pf or thereabouts) to whichever 'side' of the balanced input needed it so that a reasonable 'rejection' was obtained at 20KHz. Failure to twist the input wires can create a considerable imbalance (poor rejection). Of course many cheat and join the 'ground' side of phantom to the negative of the audio supply which is strictly poor practice. in a desk it was usual to have analogue common, lamp/digital/switching ground, phantom power ground and metalwork all separate until they met at a 'tech earth' bolt and the first test is to ensure that all are completely separate until actually connected to the bolt. With the prevalence of switching supplies (phone chargers, computer screens etc) getting the wiring correct is getting more important.
 
Use the extra wire for chassis ("Neve earth") as well. 18 ga is a little light, but for one module it should be OK if you keep the supply cable less than six feet. Steel Switchcraft XLRs if at all possible as they have the best shell connection.
Mike
 
Use the extra wire for chassis ("Neve earth") as well. 18 ga is a little light, but for one module it should be OK if you keep the supply cable less than six feet. Steel Switchcraft XLRs if at all possible as they have the best shell connection.
Mike
Thanks mike. Yes the wire is for single modules. my intention was for the power supply to have an individual socket and harness for each rack mount unit.
 
Back
Top