500 series modular API style console...625CR Control Room Module Done Page 21!!

[jsteiger]

I was just about to post on here that I have made some nice headway on this project the last few days.    I have been working on the 8 space, 500 series PCB bucket first. I have came up with a few nice options that will make it somewhat versatile and unique. Volker and I have been emailing back and forth about this as he has an 8 space version of the backplane pretty much done too.

I want to clean up my drawings a little so they are a little easier to understand. I have not asked Volker but maybe I will just post my drawings here to get other thoughts rather than he and I just have these discussions in private.

For a quick outline, the main backplane will be much like the 51x backplane and will also be able to accept the 15 pin connectors for standard VPR stuff. Connections to the outside world from the rear of the backplane are somewhat limited but enough. I am sticking mostly with the .156" Molex type connections. This will be the case for the busing modules and input modules too. Each slot will have a 3 pin .156" header for in and for out. There is also a 2nd .156" header for "B" input. For ease of understanding, I will say Line Input. This would be fed from a tape machine, PT or what-have-you-not. This "B" input and the slot's output go to a small, vertical plug-in relay (that I am also using on the VP312DI and elsewhere). If you have your preamps in this 500 series bucket, you could have a remote switch to activate the relay to select Mic or Line to feed the future Input Channel. This relay mounts with a .1" 90 degree header. It can be socketed or soldered directly. This small relay PCB mounts to the rear side of the backplane near the top of the slot.

Lets call that connection option 1.

The next possibility is more standard using the .156" Molex layout. Do not populate the B input header, forget about the plug-in relay, jumper across 2 sets of holes where the relay goes and you are in business, the normal 500 way only with Molex connectors.

The 3rd and last possible connection method, (which I need 4 racks worth for myself, BTW!) is using Dsub, DB25. I am doing this with a smaller daughter board that mounts using 3/8" standoffs to the rear of the 500 backplane. There will be 2 PCB vertical mount DB25 female receptacles on this daughterboard. I will be using 3M .1" headers mounted to the rear of the main backplane and 3M .1" female receptacles on underside of the daughterboard. I have 8 of the 3/8" standoffs between the 2 boards so it is a short distance and rock solid. The daughterboard is a necessity as there is simply not enough room to run the tracks for both DB25 connectors if they reside on the main board.

It is not possible to use the B input/relay set up and the DB25 daughterboard. The .156" connectors are also not used with the DB25 option. Volker has XLR's on his board. There is simply not enough room for them on my board. It's a game of sacrifices to some degree.

The main backplane is .125" thick, just like Volker's 51x boards. The daughter board is .094" thick so there should be very little flex from the 2 DB25 cables hanging there.

Enough talking. Let me make these CAD drawings presentable. A picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

Best, Jeff

 

[[silent:arts]]

Jeff, I don't think there is any need for my version of an eight slot backplane anymore
like I mailed you, the daughter PCB for the SubD connectors is a brilliant idea  8)
if there is the need for it you can easily do more daughter boards for other connectors, like XLRs or any other common multipin connector.
but why not add the B input to a third SubD on the daughter board?

 

[matta]

I know it is more work, but I'm in agreement with Volker, a backplane board with various I/O option daughterboards seems to be the most versatile, though, like Jeff I'd prob go with DSUB wires to Tascam standard i/o, the relay board to select line/pre is a fantastic idea... Jeff, not sure where you find the time my friend!

Cheers

Matt

 

[boji]

I'm in the process of reinventing your wheel i'm sure.
I just dowloaded the freemium of Eagle and have started sourceing parts, building a revised schema based off the 536 for my input card. I certainly look forward to your drawings.  ;D
I've been recommended to go with db25's and I'm not sure where to position them yet. I may just go point to point.
I have these ready:

But I certainly need the internal runs to the patchbay. The card I'm drafting pairs to a single 50 pin connector and the wheatstone backplanes are simple 50 point straight wire bus runs. (not yet sure how to get the switches aside each other in pairs without going with two pcb's per channel sandwiched with standoffs. Sometimes I think I ought to just carve out the bottom of the metalwork and make room for your project. 

 

[jsteiger]

Nice looking work Boji. It can be a little overwhelming can't it? Keep forging ahead.  8)

...if there is the need for it you can easily do more daughter boards for other connectors, like XLRs or any other common multipin connector.

Excellent idea Volker!

but why not add the B input to a third SubD on the daughter board?

I will investigate. There should be plenty of room for this. I was trying to keep the daughter board as small as possible but that can increase. All of the signal tracks on the daughter board are on the bottom(facing the mother board/backplane) so, the entire top copper layer is a ground plane/shield. Previous to this, no signal tracks on the top.

...DSUB wires to Tascam standard i/o...

Yes Matt, Tascam standard. I have the female DB25's rotated 180 degrees which I found out Volker does not like.  ;D I don't either but it only makes sense for track layout. So, I have gotten over it already! It is way to late to rewrite the "DB25 Tascam" standard but...it is ass backwards no?

...the relay board to select line/pre is a fantastic idea...

This was inspired by Denyle actually, earlier on this thread. That is why it is great to put some of this work out there before it is all actually done. Inspiration, thoughts, ideas...

Cheers, Jeff

 

[PATAPETER]

Jeff sorry to bother you. Did you've saw my email ?
regards.
Pedro.

 

[jsteiger]

Yes, I did see it but I haven't had time to really look at it. To be honest, I just do not have the extra time to get involved in outside projects right now. I have too many of my own projects that I feel I am behind on...including this modular console one!

I would highly recommend looking thru the White Market for Lukas' thread and his custom PCB work. I'm sure he would be of great assistance on your project.

Best, Jeff

 

[PATAPETER]

Yes jeff, i know you're full of work , but maybe you can tell me where are you making your pcb's , so i can send mines and ask them to quote my owns. Can you tell in wich format they work ? I mean the pcb files.
And also where are you making yours front face plates ? The laser cut didn't arrive here yet ( for that small work).
Thanks jeff you're always so helpful .
regards.
Pedro.

PS : In the future if you want to offer mines pcb's it all right with me.

 

[jsteiger]

OK gentlemen,

I have worked away at this and have added a few things. Mainly based on thoughts from Matt and Volker. Thanks guys. The pdf's pretty much show it all.

I have 4-DB25 plugs on the daughter board. Module input, module output, relay output and alternate input. I have the relay PCB reformatted to reside on the backplane. It will use my normal Mill-Max DOA type sockets in the backplane and the .04" Mill-Max pins on the relay board. The relay options can be used with standard .156" Molex connectors or with the DB25 daughter board. Or they can be skipped and just have a standard in/out 500/51x rack.

Here are the current pdf's. I didn't take the time for the cute thumbnail links. I'm starting to poop out for the day  ???

Main 8 space backplane(view is from back of rack)

DB25 daughter board(view is again from back of rack)

And side view showing how the 2 are related.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers, Jeff

 

[boji]

Looking lovely Jeff

 

[[silent:arts]]

perfect

 

[jsteiger]

Gee, thanks guys.

So, Volker, does this mean

perfect

that it can be yellow with red silk?

 

[[silent:arts]]

Gee, thanks guys.

So, Volker, does this mean

perfect

that it can be yellow with red silk?

it have to look like that ;D

 

[jsteiger]

Why yes, of course.

How about the DB25 daughter board? Hmm. Shouldn't be yellow...nor black...nor white...nor green...nor red...I guess that leaves  blue.  8)

 

[[silent:arts]]

nah - the blue from our vendor isn't really blue, it is more blue - green ...
however, the red relay PCBs fits to the yellow / red.
mhm, the SubD PCBs are difficult :-\
either red or yellow, but best would be pink with lila elephants printed on it ;D

 

[jsteiger]

Well. we are out of options then. Maybe the Dsub board will have to be yellow also? I don't know. Definitely not white.

 

[Tubemooley]

The new I/O boards look great. If you make any of these, I will probably want a few. DW.

 

[ljfont]

Hi,

Will your line input card edge pinout's be standard? I'm thinking about using your cards with some of mine in the same chassis? I'm looking to have only 2 echo, and 1 cue mix in my card.

Thanks.

Leo

 

[jsteiger]

Hi,

Will your line input card edge pinout's be standard? I'm thinking about using your cards with some of mine in the same chassis? I'm looking to have only 2 echo, and 1 cue mix in my card. Maybe mix and match. A mic/line version. A stereo input version and so on.

Thanks.

Leo

Leo,

I plan on making the motherboard a new standard if you will. The card edge pin-outs will not be compatible with anything that is in existence right now. My thought is to make it so that anyone can design their own input channel or what have you.

The 500 bucket will be of course standard to 51x Alliance specs.

Cheers, Jeff

 

[ljfont]

Thanks for the info.

I want to follow your pinouts as well, what are your thoughts about crosstalk. I'm looking at your drawings in the first post and trying to understand if the Echo's, Cue's, etc. are fully differential. I see in your DSUB connectors that your are using +V/-V. Also, are you using a common Gnd.

I'm new to API stuff, are their classic designs also differential.

Thanks again.