Aaaargghhh!!!!!

[L´Andratté]

Hi, just through this thread...

Since I´m pretty new to electronics I don´t have much to offer in ways of circuit design, but have here and there read about that clone-war/paint-by-numbers stuff, etc. AND just want to say there´s at least one new member here who has to deviate every circuit to his own liking, builds them on stripboard and likes to put them in prehistoric junkyard enclosures whatever good that is or is not.

"Fun people" seem to be leaving everywhere all the time, where are they all going? Going south? Mexico? Be the fun people yourselves (just don´t leave!)...

Think what you want but to me it´s one of the most in-depth recording-diy-places that I found in the whole www.
So thanks Analag, thanks JR, PRR, ruffrecords, kingston and countless other pro-/semipro- and amateur e-engineers, it has been invaluable to me already! I remember the public library days.
(Don´t want to appear too sycophantic here and will certainly not get stuck in anybodys backside, but when I look around me, sadly, it´s not that usual for people to patiently help each other).

P.S. When I graduated from art school (yes indeed) me natural mentor there said to me like "Don´t pride yourself to do something utterly new. Everything has already been done this way or another. Just do what you feel is important and try to do it very good."
Yes. And then there´s stuff like this ;D
http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Corpse/VCEOM.html

 

[critterkllr]

I guess I don't understand why anybody would care if somebody wanted a clone, paint by numbers or an original design. Everybody has different goals. My dream has been to have a studio that gives me the ability to recreate classic sounds and explore new areas using those sounds in modern ways. While I applaud the guys that can engineer original designs and explore new territories, it's not really where all of the excitement is for me.

The argument reminds me of the people that feel a "real" drummer tunes by ear and won't touch a tuner. Or that using a metronome is for the talentless. But really, all that matters is that the person achieves whatever it is that they're looking for. I'm extremely grateful that there are people out there that have invested their time and money to help me achieve what I'm looking for.

 

[gyraf]

I agree.

Bashing the cloners and complaining that all the fun ones are leaving seems to be a recurrent theme among a group of users. And although I see their point to some degree, I still think we have an important function here at groupdiy.org:

I always considered the diy-projects as some kind of bate, that would lure tech-minded prospects into an interest for audio electronics. And once they were hooked, at least some of them would stay and over time grow up to be techs that we could share interesting discussions with.

Actually I think this has worked very well indeed: I know of no other place - irl or web - where I'd rather post a weired tech question that needed an answer.

And as a side-effect, we've succeeded in attracting some genuinely helpful people and gifted teachers - who takes their time answering questions and educating and inspiring techs-to-be.

Jakob E.

 

[teacat]

I guess cloning circuits and and building kits is for little girly mans.  The only thing I see wrong with clones and kits is if you have something to prove, either to yourself or someone else. Otherwise, it is what it is.
I'm a noob to this forum, and to electronic engineering but not to diy. I've always thought it would be great to build my own tube preamps, microphones, maybe even a simple mixer. Obviously probably not gonna happen, having only a rudimentary knowledge of electronics. With the various kits and parts and walk-throughs and mostly support! here, it doesn't seem quite as daunting. That's just the level I'm at with this stuff, and I'm sure I'm hardly unique. I was pleasantly surprised to find some dedicated folks participating in a collective effort to build and put together parts, kits, pcb's, schematics, or whatever in the pursuit of what I was also pursuing. Awesome! And those who are selling those items, my guess is they're not getting rich anytime soon! Overall there's a real welcoming, community vibe here from what I've read.
Anyway, long story short-

I always considered the diy-projects as some kind of bate, that would lure tech-minded prospects into an interest for audio electronics. And once they were hooked, at least some of them would stay and over time grow up to be techs that we could share interesting discussions with.

- exactly. I've taken the bait and am now hooked. Thanks alot  :'(

Sorry for the rambling post.....

 

[DaveP]

I guess cloning circuits and and building kits is for little girly mans.  The only thing I see wrong with clones and kits is if you have something to prove, either to yourself or someone else. Otherwise, it is what it is.

"Girly Mans".  You see you never stop learning catchy new phrases on this forum! ;D

If you are not interested in understanding how it all works, but want the sense of achievement of making stuff yourself (and more importantly, getting down to quickly using the gear) then kit clones fit the bill and there's nothing wrong with that.

For me that is not enough of a challenge now.  Forty three years ago I could have done with the internet and this forum when I struggled to make an all tube desk and 4 track tape deck and failed.  But ever since I just had to know how stuff worked, that's the way some of us are wired.  I do a couple of weeks research and make some mock ups of stages to check voltages and specs before starting on the new project, actually seeing it right through to the end is the hardest part, but guys on this forum are incredibly supportive and give you lots of encouragement.

So teacat, welcome aboard.  You will find everything you need to know in these archives and what you don't, you will get help with, just make sure you have a damn good search before you ask!

You will surprise yourself at what you can achieve.
best
DaveP

 

[ln76d]

I'm not so long at the forum and would rather I did not bring too much from the lack of adequate knowledge (maybe someday this will change ).  I'm reading forum from few good years. In fact - this is the only forum on the net which am reading and where i'm registered - I'm a little antisocial in the web. Gdiy  gave me many  useful informations and usual help from many friendly people!
There's always something to find and learn something new - that's why i really like this place. I would love too have more time only.

I see nothing wrong with building clones or even complete kits.
Thanks to all of the people who makes them and sell them!
This is a good way to learn - of course if someone want to learn anything.
It's good way too because people who makes them get some cash from selling it (i hope so)  and this is some kind of motivation to make another stuff etc.

What piss me off is that, the many of kit/clone builders don't want to add few cents from apart. Some folks obviously demand the answers  (how should they connect cable and where etc. - for example ). They bought, they demand - they feel like customers in the supermarket
Many get the answer and what? And bye.... Why not help others, which have same issues? ...

For what my long and boring digression?

We have proper sections for proper equipment type and that's great, but many of really interesting topics die under the weight of "hundred pages style" support threads, where the 30% of questions are the same as the previous - only some folks are too lazy to check it.

Don't you think that making a new section (called "support thread" for example)  could be good idea to get some air at forum?
Move all "official support threads" in one place?
I think this shouldn't hurt anyone and even could be really helpfull

Sorry for weak english, i'm tired today.

 

[ppa]

BUT, apart from those things, and in the area of 'fundamental' audio functionalities, how much scope for original design is there?

After all, it ain't rocket science.  Is it? 

I sure don't know anything not already done many times over :>)

And what is design, anyhow? How do you know if it is 'original' anyway ? 

OK then.

the 90% of my products are original products, you have bought from me original produts, for example. 

And surely there is always a lot of economic motivations to original design - 'product placement' like squeezing more for less $ , or the opposite 'making as boutique as possible' to maximise $ as well as the places in between.

A clone is mainly a "sure success" on diy market, moreover a clone does not require to be designed, so who does an own design works two times vs. who clones one.
Moreover, often a clone fruits more money and "success" than an original product on the short and mid time because the clone is just famous, a new original product is not. 

Who designs a new product must ask to himself if this one can be placed on the diy market Like first thing! to avoid to lose money. Developing a product whould be spending time and money for developing it as for a product for the regular market. 

I think that asking to himself if own original product can be placed on the diy market is a measure
of how much people prefers clones to new products here.

The price is very often a problem the diy market for an original product, if you place it at competitive price people think that it is "not so good" as a clone, if you place it at at the same price level of a clone product people buy the clone and not your product enen if has better performances  ;D.

For example my APP992 (my own project) has top level performances but I have had to place it at a cheap price for its assembled version. Could I increase its price? I think NO.

 

[ppa]

just adding a note.

Basing on my personal experience, little recording studios often prefer clones to have classic sound, big studios often prefer new things to have new and original sound to add to the classic sound of their gears. There were some big studios that asked to me some my DOAs to mod some their gears to having an original sound from them. 
Moreover, on my experience, german sound engineers have a strong interest on original things even if they love classic gears.     

 

[Rochey]

Youknow, I hear a lot of complaining about kits and solder-by-numbers.

I think it's a positive thing. I am of course, very biased.

However, look at it another way.

When I joined groupdiy, the required knowledge to play was pretty darn high. While attitudes didn't reflect it, it was rather elitist. EE or higher may apply, others may ask questions.

We're now at a position where anyone gets to play, from the weekend musician who wants to improve his sound (with the few hours he has to tinker) all the way to EE who gets to design for those guys.

For those following the world of electronics, Arduino is doing a similar thing... it's breaking down barriers required to get into embedded systems. Previously, artists would have required knowledge of Hardware, of C programming, of programming tools etc. Arduino has simplified that into a simple platform with loads of examples that can be stitched together. Most people who tinker with it have no idea what a register map is, or how to use interrupts etc. They just jump in at the shallow end.

My hope for this newer audience is that one or two of them get hooked and learn enough to contribute back. Even if it's on non EE stuff like metalwork, or digital stuff in the truth table forum.

One last thought. I love designing and selling stuff. It's not a "make money" thing, (because I barely make any once bills are paid). It's the feeling that people love the stuff that I put together. The threads where people talk about EA's products light me up like a Christmas tree.

Yes. I'm an Extrovert.

/R

 

[fum]

On the "people leaving" front, another angle to consider.

I spent a bunch of time here(and the old place), I built a bunch of equipment for my own use.  I started working with ribbon microphones because they interested me.  People started taking notice, and my spare time dwindled to nothing.

I'm still out here, still building things.  It's just that many of the things are for other companies, so I can't talk about it  without it seeming like marketing.  Same with my own products.  One of the reasons I was attracted to this place originally was the lack of marketing, and now that I'm involved with some commercial ventures, I don't want people thinking I'm here to shill or some such, so I don't post.

I will note that Jakob has done a great job of walking this line over the years!

So, I primarily checkin @ the brewery, and find threads like this. =)

ju

 

[okgb]

Again  ....?  looking for a particular answer ?
[ Doesn't it come from within ? ]

 

[desol]

A negative attitude is just that...negative. It doesn't promote anything positive.

 

[[silent:arts]]

Again  ....?  looking for a particular answer ?
[ Doesn't it come from within ? ]

the answer is 42  8)

 

[gyraf]

level 42

 

[okgb]

Ah Man ! I thought it was 47 , what does that mean ?

 

[gyraf]

Everyone around here knows that the entrance is on level 42

 

[bigbeaty]

Behind the revolving Fireplace.

 

[okgb]

The 80's ?

 

[critterkllr]

The 80's ?

Not quite, but we appologize for the inconvenience.

 

[okgb]

Ah , Man the 80's was good times, ......................perhaps embarrassing at times [ if you look back from today ]
Where you at Analag ?