Any resources to better understand tremelo circuits?

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Mbira

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
2,422
Location
Austin, TX
've been looking at the common fender tremolo circuit. I am trying to get a better grasp of what is going on. I searched google to see about any writing on this specific part of the circuit, but no luck yet. Anyone else know a source of info? I'm sure this is something that many people here "just know", but I'm happy to try and figure this out...
Thanks.
Joel
 
There is no "common" Fender tremulo: Leo used many different plans.

The basic idea is a low frequency oscillator and a variable gain amplifier.

The LFO is usually one triode with three R-C networks from plate to grid, one or two of the Rs adjustable to set "rate".

The VCA is usually done by injecting an adjustable amount of LFO voltage or current into a signal stage, upsetting its bias and changing its gain. He stuffed preamp tubes, mixer tubes, and even output grids. Aside from changing gain, at high signal levels it changes distortion, which in some amps is more important than the amplitude change.
 
There is a rather detailed description of the oscillator part at aikenamps.com.

The (most common?) photoresistor tremolo is just a oscillator (the left half of the bottom right 12AX7) driving another half 12ax7 which switches a neon lamp on and off (i don't know if the brightness changes significantly or if it is just on/off switching). The light shines on a LDR which then shunts part of the signal to ground. The slow reaction of a typical LDR probably smoothes the modulation a bit, so it does not sound like a helicopter.

AB763 schematic

HTH
;Matthias
 
> what signal is even feeding the grid of the first half of the tube...

Which tube? There are nearly a dozen tubes on that plan.

We know the 7025 is just a 12AX7, but for some reason the only one marked "12AX7" on this plan happens to be the Tremulo tube. I'll pretend you mean that one.

The left-side grid is fed the signal from its own plate. Hold your hollow-body gitar too close to its amp: even if you don't touch the strings, you get feedback and a loud sound. That's an Oscillator. Works about the same as an organ pipe: blow air through, feedback at the throat encourages a wobble in the air, changing the pipe size changes the pitch. Blow electrons through the power circuit of an electronic oscillator, it amplifies its own output, even random noise, into a full-power wiggle. Instead of a pipe, we use R-C networks to set and change the pitch. Plate signal passes through the 0.02, 0.01, 0.01 chain, loaded by several Meg resistors, one user controlled. For Tremulo use, we pitch it so slow you can see it wiggle. We know (or should know) that 0.01uFd and 1 meg gives a 17Hz roll-off, which is far below guitar pitch and on the edge of flicker frequencies. We might suspect that the cascade of three C-R networks works a little slower(?), and we see one network is 0.02uFd and 100K-3.1Meg so it works slower when turned to the limit. Probably tunes from "flicker" to "throb" frequencies.

Don't try too hard to analyze this LFO. It is incredibly funky. It violates all the design rules for a nice phase-shift oscillator. You could do a far better job with a chip, except most guitar-amp tremulo schemes need high voltage, and the Classic Designs were laid in stone before chips appeared. Just learn about Oscillators: an amplifier plus something to set the frequency.
 
Thanks for that link CJ (and the others that are in that root directory...)

Lot's of good stuff.

Joel
:guinness:
 
Couple of quick pages on different circuits used.

http://www.obsoleteelectronics.com/Fender_Tech/fender_tech.htm

http://www.lynx.bc.ca/~jc/tremoloCircuits.html

I got more info somewhere, in a hurry right now...
 
Just so happens - this week I bought that little "Fender Amp book" - which has a quick paragraph on how it works
I could rewrite it if you wish - but I think it may have been covered in the previous posts (sod it I will do it anyway)
 
The only way I know is the R.A. Penfold method of modulating a signal with an LFO, but it seems to work. In the circuit I played with you could get tremolo and metal effects from the current delivered to an LM13700 chip, if memory serves.
 
How about mechanical tremolos? I know they're not Fender style but...

I've seen one or two... One was a rotating disc with a notch cut out of it as the oscillator, and a magnetic inductance coil pickup. The voltage oscillation was modulated into the signal. Whether it was a vari-mu setup or a direct modulation, I don't know; I didn't get that far at the time.

Another was some kind of contact plates inside of a rotating drum of oil... Every time the oil would roll over the contact points a voltage pulse would be let through to a VCA...

Anyone messed with these? I remember these fondly and their concepts have been preying on my mind lately.
 
[quote author="ciminosound"]Couple of quick pages on different circuits used.

http://www.obsoleteelectronics.com/Fender_Tech/fender_tech.htm

http://www.lynx.bc.ca/~jc/tremoloCircuits.html

I got more info somewhere, in a hurry right now...[/quote]

These are great info! Thanks!

Joel
 
> One was a rotating disc with a notch cut out of it as the oscillator, and a magnetic inductance coil pickup.

Sounds like a mechanically modulated choke, not a "pickup". Wind an air-gap choke. Slide a piece of iron in the gap, inductance goes up. Put the choke in a circuit so it chokes-off the high frequencies, very little whan air-gapped, more when iron is in the gap. Variable low-pass filter. A further mod is to put a cap across the choke for a little resonance, which varies in frequency.

Rotating drums of oil sounds like a bad idea. Might be a air/oil capacitor: an AM radio tuning cap is 365pFd in air, might be 1,000pFd in oil.
 
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