Best PCB design tool?

[gaztech]

Feel free to laugh! I have been using the "stone age" TANGO (DOS) program for more than 30 years. Ever since 286 computers. Of course, today on a Dell inspiron I 7 notebook with Win 10 operational system and Dosbox utility. I like it because I can easily create a library for any part and I can also draw it manually. Especially for sound engineering circuits, where you have to solve everything in your head and by hand anyway, if you really want something good! (Although you can already do this based on the schematic, it is difficult.)

I can understand this. I'm using EasyPC. I used to use the older DOS version - used it from the early 90's I think. They sell a Windows version now but it retains all of the old DOS shortcuts so conversion to it was easy. I'd recommend it but most of the systems on offer these days are good. Don't get sucked in by the more expensive systems unless you are intending to build multi-layer SMD boards. The cheaper (and free) programs out there will cope with most needs.

The supplied libraries with EasyPC are pretty good but creating new components is easy once you work out the logic behind how it's done. Their user forum is very instructive too (although it really needs a facelift now).

 

[kingcredie]

A few months ago I decided to start fixing an old microphone I had laying around. After asking in this forum I chose the primo EM200 capsule to replace the old one. I have been quite busy in the meantime and I just started having a little more time to dedicate to the project. I've started trying to convert this schoeps schematic kindly provided to me by @kingkorg into a pcb schematic that I can send to an etching service. However, after trying some tools like Altium CircuitMaker and Fusion360 they all seem to be lacking most of the components required, and importing said components is proving to be a pain.
I was wondering if you all had any recommendations as far as design tools go.
Thanks in advance,
Tom

My customers usually use the below three tools:

1.PROTEL (Altium Designer)
2. PADS (PowerPCB)
3. Allegro

​

 

[Newmarket]

Question is sort of meaningless without a reference to cost. Since people are mentioning everything from the frr stuff through to PADS etc and everything inbetween.
And there's also a balance of learning curve vs capability to consider

 

[ruffrecords]

Question is sort of meaningless without a reference to cost. Since people are mentioning everything from the frr stuff through to PADS etc and everything inbetween.
And there's also a balance of learning curve vs capability to consider

The other thing to rememeber is the time you will need to invest in creating your own library. Most ECAD tools come with (supposedly) extensive libraries but they really only cover common parts. Many of the parts used in audio, like rotary switches, are not in any library. Whatever tool you use I guarantee will spend a lot of time creating footprints.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Newmarket]

The other thing to rememeber is the time you will need to invest in creating your own library. Most ECAD tools come with (supposedly) extensive libraries but they really only cover common parts. Many of the parts used in audio, like rotary switches, are not in any library. Whatever tool you use I guarantee will spend a lot of time creating footprints.

100% this. Imo it's critical to know how to create and edit both schematic symbols and PCB footprints. Apart from individual components I like to use composite footprints to allow for eg varying capacitor lead pitches or fitting an SO8 footprint within a DIP8 footprint for opamps.

 

[SIXTYNINER]

The other thing to rememeber is the time you will need to invest in creating your own library. Most ECAD tools come with (supposedly) extensive libraries but they really only cover common parts. Many of the parts used in audio, like rotary switches, are not in any library. Whatever tool you use I guarantee will spend a lot of time creating footprints.

Cheers

Ian

A translator would be more than necessary,

many projects here are based on Eagle ,
parts library included,
especially the parts designed by members,
because not available in the default Eagle library,
or not supplied by parts manufacturers
unfortunately... : (

 

[MidnightArrakis]

A few months ago I decided to start fixing an old microphone I had laying around. After asking in this forum I chose the primo EM200 capsule to replace the old one. I have been quite busy in the meantime and I just started having a little more time to dedicate to the project. I've started trying to convert this schoeps schematic kindly provided to me by @kingkorg into a pcb schematic that I can send to an etching service. However, after trying some tools like Altium CircuitMaker and Fusion360 they all seem to be lacking most of the components required, and importing said components is proving to be a pain.
I was wondering if you all had any recommendations as far as design tools go.
Thanks in advance,
Tom

Personally.....for you.....I would download, install and use the KiCAD PCB-design program for four main reasons: 1) It's FREE, 2) It comes with a -- TON (TONNE) -- of libraries, 3) it is not only based over there in Europe, but it is also backed and supported by CERN, the Large Hadron Collider people and, 4) LOTS of members on this forum all use it!!!

Myself.....I use the CADENCE/OrCAD "PCB Editor" Release 22.1 (with ALLEGRO technology) primarily because it is a major player and a somewhat "industry-standard" among aerospace/avionics companies, defense contractors, medical electronics firms, NASA, R&D laboratories and others of which I am involved with designing their PCB's for on special projects.

And, as far as KiCAD goes, you don't have to struggle with trying to learn how to use the software on your own and end up getting frustrated with it because, even though the software is FREE, there is also available some very low-cost (like, $55 or so) online books and videos available that will teach you how to effectively use the software at your own pace!!! When I downloaded my version of the software, the training videos were only $40 and consisted of nearly 8.5GB of downloadable videos. Now, I don't believe that you can download the videos anymore. However, there are also a bunch of YouTube videos available that will help you learn how to use KiCAD as well. Check it out.

https://www.kicad.org/download/

But, then.....there is this.....once you have downloaded the latest KiCAD PCB-design software, get it installed onto your computer and begin to make some headway on learning how to actually use the software, let me know and I will provide you with a URL link that I have which contains about 500MB of PDF files on all manner and sorts of PCB "Guidelines / Standards / Techniques" for you to download and learn how to -- REALLY -- design proper PCB's!!! Sound like a plan??? It's up to you.....

My 2-cents (or, shillings) worth!!!

/

 

[MidnightArrakis]

"Best"? There's no such thing. That's like asking for the "best" DAW.
I've used heaps over the decades, including Ocad, Mentor, Pads, Protel, Altium and finally settled on Diptrace.
Always be prepared to have to build your own libraries, however having a good starting selection speeds things up.

[including Ocad] -- OOPS!!! Should be "OrCAD"!!! There.....now I feel better!!!

/

 

[pinebox]

+1 for KiCAD it only took me a weekend of sitting down and not getting up until I designed what I needed, and now I am pretty comfortable using the program coming from no circuit design background at all. Easy to pick up, free, and very popular so any time you get hung up theres a youtube or forum answer somewhere to help you out.

 

[Mixermend]

Another very popular free PCB program is Design Spark from RS Components. This has been available for a number of years - and is regularly updated.

Existing users of Easy PC will find Design Spark very familiar - unfortunately files cannot be transferred between the two programs, but normally users are very loyal to the PCB design program they started on - as I guess that the investment in the 'learning curve' has been made.

 

[Neperdun]

"Best"? There's no such thing. That's like asking for the "best" DAW.
I've used heaps over the decades, including Ocad, Mentor, Pads, Protel, Altium and finally settled on Diptrace.
Always be prepared to have to build your own libraries, however having a good starting selection speeds things up.

Totally agree with You, colleague!
Do You have any libraries for DipTrace, made by yourself?

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Feel free to laugh! I have been using the "stone age" TANGO (DOS) program for more than 30 years. Ever since 286 computers. Of course, today on a Dell inspiron I 7 notebook with Win 10 operational system and Dosbox utility. I like it because I can easily create a library for any part and I can also draw it manually. Especially for sound engineering circuits, where you have to solve everything in your head and by hand anyway, if you really want something good! (Although you can already do this based on the schematic, it is difficult.)

[Feel free to laugh!] -- .....

[I have been using the "stone age" TANGO (DOS) program for more than 30 years] -- Back during the mid-to-late 1980's, I was hired as a "Contract Senior PCB Designer" by a company in Baltimore, MD that designed and built remote broadcast equipment and they had used TANGO. So, this was a time when not only was the advent and use of modern PCB-design software like a totally new type of thing, but even using computers in general had only been around for maybe 5-years or so!!! And, as I am certain that you can easily imagine with both computers in general and PCB-design software specifically, the capabilities and features available within these early CAD-programs was limited at best!!!

In any case.....so here I am in this company to design their PCB's using this brand-new software and the Engineering Manager at this company had wanted me to design a new PCB for them.....>> WITH COMPONENTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE PCB!!! << SHEESH!!! TANGO could barely accommodate designing a simple PCB with components on one-side, but it -- HAD NO CAPABILITY WHATSOEVER -- to place components on both sides!!! AND!!!.....I couldn't say to the Engineering Manager that the software was incapable of actually doing that because he was of the type of personality that would have bounced me right out onto the street!!! So.....what to do??? NOTE: To those of you who hadn't been born yet during that point-in-time, it wasn't until about 5-years later, like around approaching the mid-1990's, before more advanced PCB-design software got to the point where you could hit a key on your keyboard and flip the footprint of a component over to the backside of a board-layout. In addition, I was using the OrCAD "Layout PLUS" PCB-design software in 1998, when I accidentally discovered that I could actually place PCB-footprints on the INNER LAYERS of a multi-layer design. The OrCAD Tech Support had told me that doing so was "impossible", but they bit their tongue when I showed them how I could do it!!!

After spending about 3-days futzing around with the TANGO software, I finally came up with a "painful" process that would allow me to place component footprints on the backside of a PCB. However, creating the GERBER outputs was still a nightmare, as the software really didn't have a "BOTTOMSIDE SILKSCREEN" output!!! You could output "BOTTOMSIDE COPPER" and "BOTTOMSIDE SOLDERMASK", but there was no "BOTTOMSIDE SILKSCREEN" because placing parts on the backside of a PCB wasn't "a thing" yet. AND!!!.....this was still using only "Thru-Hole" technology!!! But, I managed.

-- THAT'S MY STORY AND I'M STICKING TO IT!!! --

/

 

[MicUlli]

I personally feel fine with my 10 year old EAGLE 6.4.0 version (of course personally licensed). Have done around 60..80 designs in the last 10 years up to 8 layer microvia boards. I like the versatility to create my own footprints and circuit elements.

my 2 cents..

BR MicUlli

 

[Newmarket]

Another very popular free PCB program is Design Spark from RS Components. This has been available for a number of years - and is regularly updated.

Existing users of Easy PC will find Design Spark very familiar - unfortunately files cannot be transferred between the two programs, but normally users are very loyal to the PCB design program they started on - as I guess that the investment in the 'learning curve' has been made.

Seeing some new posts here. So to pick up on this. It's totally possible to produce pro level PCBs with Easy PC. And, importantly imo the schematic drawings look good and readable. Unlike some of the free options. YMMV.
Easy PC weak point is library management. And it lacks some more advanced functions. Which leads onto Pulsonix from the same outfit. More £ of course but way cheaper than Altium etc.
As for PADS - when the response to a sales enquiry is not a price but "we'd like to talk to you about your ECAD requirements" - you know it's going to be a big number

 

[JohnRoberts]

[Feel free to laugh!] -- .....

[I have been using the "stone age" TANGO (DOS) program for more than 30 years] -- Back during the mid-to-late 1980's, I was hired as a "Contract Senior PCB Designer" by a company in Baltimore, MD that designed and built remote broadcast equipment and they had used TANGO. So, this was a time when not only was the advent and use of modern PCB-design software like a totally new type of thing, but even using computers in general had only been around for maybe 5-years or so!!! And, as I am certain that you can easily imagine with both computers in general and PCB-design software specifically, the capabilities and features available within these early CAD-programs was limited at best!!!

In any case.....so here I am in this company to design their PCB's using this brand-new software and the Engineering Manager at this company had wanted me to design a new PCB for them.....>> WITH COMPONENTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE PCB!!! << SHEESH!!! TANGO could barely accommodate designing a simple PCB with components on one-side, but it -- HAD NO CAPABILITY WHATSOEVER -- to place components on both sides!!! AND!!!.....I couldn't say to the Engineering Manager that the software was incapable of actually doing that because he was of the type of personality that would have bounced me right out onto the street!!! So.....what to do??? NOTE: To those of you who hadn't been born yet during that point-in-time, it wasn't until about 5-years later, like around approaching the mid-1990's, before more advanced PCB-design software got to the point where you could hit a key on your keyboard and flip the footprint of a component over to the backside of a board-layout. In addition, I was using the OrCAD "Layout PLUS" PCB-design software in 1998, when I accidentally discovered that I could actually place PCB-footprints on the INNER LAYERS of a multi-layer design. The OrCAD Tech Support had told me that doing so was "impossible", but they bit their tongue when I showed them how I could do it!!!

After spending about 3-days futzing around with the TANGO software, I finally came up with a "painful" process that would allow me to place component footprints on the backside of a PCB. However, creating the GERBER outputs was still a nightmare, as the software really didn't have a "BOTTOMSIDE SILKSCREEN" output!!! You could output "BOTTOMSIDE COPPER" and "BOTTOMSIDE SOLDERMASK", but there was no "BOTTOMSIDE SILKSCREEN" because placing parts on the backside of a PCB wasn't "a thing" yet. AND!!!.....this was still using only "Thru-Hole" technology!!! But, I managed.

-- THAT'S MY STORY AND I'M STICKING TO IT!!! --

/

deja vu man.... . Back last century Tango was the first PCB cad software I ever used. I bought it with my own money to use on my own PC at work inside Peavey instead of using Peavey's PC artists still taping PCB layouts manually with exacto knives. The SS limitation was not a problem since Peavey was a SS house fabricating their own SS boards.

JR

 

[MidnightArrakis]

deja vu man.... . Peavey's PC artists still taping PCB layouts manually with exacto knives.

[still taping PCB layouts manually with exacto knives] -- Around 1977, I built a 5-foot wide by 4-foot deep "Light Table" that had a 3-foot wide by 2-foot deep "under-lit" area with a combination of a thick milk-white plexiglas panel overlaid on top with a clear-glass sheet down in the basement of where I was renting at the time. Inside the lightbox, I had placed two 4-foot long fluorescent light fixtures as the backlighting source. It was quite the behemoth!!!

I would use my "Light Table" to manually hand-tape my own PCB's for my own audio projects (see below) and then, even large companies like RCA and medical electronics firms, would hire me as a "Contract Senior PCB Designer". They would even have me lug my "Light Table" into their offices because at that point-in-time, large-scale PCB-designing was just beginning to become a "thing" and most companies simply didn't have the correct infrastructure setup in-house in order to do the job. So, by them hiring me, I came fully-equipped with not only my own Exacto-knife, but my own "Light Table" and a full set of the BISHOP Graphics "PCB Footprint Book"!!!

Somehow.....I -- STILL HAVE -- my BISHOP Graphics "PCB Footprint Book" to this very day!!! These days, I use a 4GHz computer with 64GB of RAM and my PCB designs are displayed on an ultra-high-resolution 34" curved monitor. For my current PCB-designs, I have ALTIUM Designer, CADENCE/OrCAD "PCB Editor" and KiCAD 7 all installed as the need arises. Such is life in today's technological world!!!

In the room here in my house where I am writing this response, over to my far-left is a 7-foot high bookshelf, and up on the very top-shelf over on the extreme right-side is my old TANGO PCB book and software. (HMMMmmmmm.....I wonder if it would still operate on my WINDOWS 10 computer)?

-- THAT'S MY STORY AND I'M STICKING TO IT!!! --

>> Hand-Built "Audio Limiter" with my manual hand-taped PCB's inside that I designed and built back in 1978. You can barely see some of the PCB-artwork underneath and in front of the chassis that is sitting on my light-table:

--- MODUTEC "VU-Meters" ---

/

 

[Wavelength]

I have used a ton of programs since the PC came out. EE Designer III, Mentor, PADS.... I use Altium for about 10 years. I am on version 10 which is fine for me. You really have to think about making your own components. I have about 1800 in my library now. Some like Wima or Mial caps I have one instance then under that like 10 pad sizes for different sizes. For leaded and transistors parts I have PCB but many components might use them.

 

[Cqwet Dbdfte]

Best? Depends on your budget. Altium is at the top.
If you don't need 16 layers with blind/buried vias and controlled depth drilling, good BOM management, multiuser interaction, EM simulation etc, likely in the DIY space, most anything could do that produces Gerber files.
Be prepared to make your own footprints and symbols, default libraries may be insufficient, and many times schematic symbols not descriptive or too large. Been using Eagle CAD for 300+ boards, and I do not recommend it. Today I'd jump into one of the opensource deals, Kicad looks OK.
I also use "Gerbv" to check my gerbers for errors, as the PCB layout program with too many layers always in the wrong sequence makes it harder to find problems.
Use a layout program that also board vendors supply layout and CAM rules for.
I have not etched a board in 30 years.
Even if I need only ONE board I have it made, by JLC, PCB GOGO, Seeed, etc.

 

[jasonallenh]

I'm ducking to avoid any tomatoes that will be thrown at me but I've had a lot of success with EasyEDA. the UI is pretty clunky until you start working with schemos and PCBs and then it's fine. Because it's all web-based, I don't have to worry much about being at a computer with a local installation, and the export directly to JLC is pretty straightforward. I have built libraries in it as well.

 

[blue_luke]

I started in the mid 80's with DOS 3.1 Protel Schematic and Protel PCB.
Then Protel changed names and came out with a name I can't remember and I stuck to it until about 2002 when it became Altium and the cost of changing version was like 10K$ !! which I could not justify, so I stuck to my 2002 version until it went all wrong with windows 8 and up... I tried KiCad for many years and could not get along with it until some programmers at the CERN started to make it tick and now I use version 7 and boy oh boy! The first step is a bit steep if you never made schema/PCB before but this thing works! And the libraries are very large and DIYer friendly since it is free, many hobyist use it. There are even libraries schema and PCB for tube design!