[Build] CAPI VP312~500/51x Series~Preamp Kit~Official Support Thread

[jsteiger]

Hello,

I recently built a couple of these however one of them doesn't have any output signal. For reference I've tried swapping op amps ( currently using one of Capi's prebuilt 2520 clones) According to the guide c7 should be 120uf 50v nichicon however I received a 100uf 63v kingtronics gf2323 PET capacitor instead in the one that isn't working- besides that I've triple checked that all the resistor and capacitor orientations are the same/ correct.

I de-soldered the output transformer leads of the non working preamp and compared it to the others I have uninstalled and the non working card's output was in the expected ranges. For reference:

Orange & Yellow - 11.4 ohms
Green & Blue- 11.6 ohms
Violet & Gray- 11.2 ohms
Brown & red- 11.7 ohms


After ensuring both have the same gain settings (stepped input middle , max output attenuator) and the phantom is off-
without uninstalling the input transformers and comparing eachother unpowered, I did notice a discrepancy however

Good Installed input:
Pin 1 & 3 -12 ohms
Pin 2 & 4- 11.5 ohms
Pin 5 & 8- 1.89k

Non Working 312 installed input transformer:
Pin 1 & 3- 11.5 ohms
Pin 2 & 4- 11.5 ohms
Pin 5 & 8- 9.8 Ohms

Any further troubleshooting I can try here? Pretty stumped

I would remove the input and measure DCR while its not installed.

 

[geardude]

I would remove the input and measure DCR while its not installed.

Removed & here are the measurements:

Pin 1 &3 - 23.3 Ohms
Pin 2 & 4 - 24 Ohms
Pin 5 &8. 1.948k

The extra uninstalled input I have measures really close to these figures as well

 

[jsteiger]

Removed & here are the measurements:

Pin 1 &3 - 23.3 Ohms
Pin 2 & 4 - 24 Ohms
Pin 5 &8. 1.948k

The extra uninstalled input I have measures really close to these figures as well

This looks correct.

 

[justinmantell]

Matt, no gain tells me that there is a cold solder joint in the inverting opamp to ground string. I suggest following the schematic and looking at the 200Ω R, the 330µF cap, the string of Grayhill resistors and the switch. If something in there is floating, the gain switch will not function.

Is there a possibility that the floating item could be the GH switch itself? This is the second Stepped (Litz) VP25 I've built, and I am experiencing the same issues of everything working on both except for the GH switch on the fresh build. Tonally & with input/output level measured against a 1kHz sine wave I can confirm that both units function exactly the same in respect to mute, phase, pad, phantom, and they both react as expected and equally smoothly when using the attenuation knob.

All pre-flight testing of the new unit checked out, and both opAmps for both units work equally well. I also achieved a 25K overall resistance when checking the outer most pins of the GH switch and visually all my solders are shiny and appear to have decent to good flow in the work itself. I experience this no gain issue no matter in which slot of my 6 working lunchbox slots this faulty VP25 sits. I also checked the GH switch in the circuit by placing an alligator clip on GH pin 1 and then moving my DMM probe up the resistor ladder while switching to a higher position on the GH and the values read out to the DMM to match the BOM re: resistor values. Not sure if this is a real test or if it means anything about the switch, but I wanted to share.

I spent the weekend tracing back all items in the 330uF cap and 200 R string, tripled checked and confirmed all components are in their correct place and of correct value and orientation (including all leads from the Litz transformer), desoldered and re-soldered the board end to end several times but I can't seem to solve this issue of GH switch and no gain. Both VP25's sound gorgeous in stereo with GH in position 1 (off?) -- the first step on the GH switch -- and both sound insanely gnarly on position 12 (full bore) on the GH switch, however my newly built unit lacks the ability to switch to any of the gain stages between positions 1 & 12 -- in other words, the new unit has two modes: 1. No gain, and 2. Full gain.

I am by no means without a pre, as I wouldn't use the gain section for reamping sources from interface out to pre and back in, and I wouldn't use gain for stereo DI sources, such as synth, etc., and I can probably get by just fine sticking this VP25 in front of a loud guitar or bass amp cranking into an SM57, but I would love to be able to solve the issue of the gain stage mystery and have two fully working units in my rack.

Thank you in advance.

 

[jsteiger]

You can easily test if the Grayhill switch wiper is making continuity with each of the respective 12 pin positions as you turn it. Just check with a DMM.

 

[justinmantell]

You can easily test if the Grayhill switch wiper is making continuity with each of the respective 12 pin positions as you turn it. Just check with a DMM.

Today was a marathon! I went back through every solder joint and reflowed using good flux and 800 deg on my iron, everything is looking shiny & nice.

Checked the GH switch for continuity and it is present between the wiper and all 12 switch positions, and I checked back through the corresponding resistors in the stepped gain ladder per GH switch position and everything there has continutiy as well. GH wiper has continuity with the C12 330uF negative in each of the 12 switch positions, and the C12 330uF positive feeds down the line through R12, C4, R5, and (-) on A1 pins reading 200ohm.

I haven't been able to find a position on the board that's lacking continuity, and still no gain but all other functions work fine.

 

[justinmantell]

Today was a marathon! I went back through every solder joint and reflowed using good flux and 800 deg on my iron, everything is looking shiny & nice.

Checked the GH switch for continuity and it is present between the wiper and all 12 switch positions, and I checked back through the corresponding resistors in the stepped gain ladder per GH switch position and everything there has continutiy as well. GH wiper has continuity with the C12 330uF negative in each of the 12 switch positions, and the C12 330uF positive feeds down the line through R12, C4, R5, and (-) on A1 pins reading 200ohm.

I haven't been able to find a position on the board that's lacking continuity, and still no gain but all other functions work fine.

SOLVED

Today I ran through the entire board again -- this time I pulled the OT and checked all the leads for the correct 9 ohm reading, re-stripped/re-tinned the wires, and reinstalled to ensure I had no issues with the OT. I again ran through the entire gain portion of the circuit from the GH switch back to the (-) on A1, reflowing solder as I went and even (in my delirium) created a jumper to bridge C12's 330uF positive lead to the 200ohm R12 -- and then I noticed that the resistors in the gain ladder were installed in reverse.

I read magazines backwards, and I read the R gain ladder from the bottom up, starting with installing 82R in position 1 and working my way to higher and higher resistors all the way to the 12th position on the GH switch. The worst part of it all is I checked the values twice before installing and then at least five times after the build was giving me issues, and although everything was in the right sequential order, they were sitting in the entirely wrong position.

What I do want to say, however, is how ROBUST these CAPI parts are. I can think of no greater abuse than a dude with an 800 deg iron reflowing solder over and over, pulling parts out, creating jumpers, etc. -- it's ugly as all hell but it sounds oh, so sweet.

I came back to share my shameful story of how a 3 hour build became a 40 (legit probably more) trouble shooting extravaganza in case any other nutbags out there decide to read magazines/BOM's from the BottOM up -- don't do that. Thanks for your help, Jeff -- I'm now the proud owner of two VP25's and I have my eye on an 11 rack and some BT50's in the coming months.

 

[woofy]

Hey i accidentally stripped the transfo wire too far, will this cause any issues? Noise? Its the black wire on a litz.

Appreciate any advice!

 

[jsteiger]

Hey i accidentally stripped the transfo wire too far, will this cause any issues? Noise? Its the black wire on a litz.

Appreciate any advice!

Its OK but are you following the lead color cross reference chart on the Litz datasheet?

 

[woofy]

Its OK but are you following the lead color cross reference chart on the Litz datasheet?

Oh good catch. I remember building the 28 and the wires matched up in the same order as the holes...so if im reading this data sheet right, black from transfo goes to violet on pcb, red to grey, etcetc...

As for the bit of bare wire, would it be best practice to use some heat shrink or a bit of electric tape? Or am i ok ok lol.

 

[jsteiger]

Oh good catch. I remember building the 28 and the wires matched up in the same order as the holes...so if im reading this data sheet right, black from transfo goes to violet on pcb, red to grey, etcetc...

As for the bit of bare wire, would it be best practice to use some heat shrink or a bit of electric tape? Or am i ok ok lol.

I'd use a piece of heat shrink on it.

 

[REDtone Studio]

I have recently complete a build video for the VP312, check it out here:

I have a question as well. I put together two of these and my poor soldering skills had me double checking everything. I had some issues getting it to work at the beginning (you can see in the video) and it turns out it was the CA-0252 OpAmp. I can't recommend enought to have a known working OpAmp to at least test new builds with. In my troubleshooting, I noticed that the color code for the output transformer is different on the PCB compared to the the schematic (possibly). So in one I wired each transformer wire to the color indicated on the PCB and then the other I switched the Red and Brown with the Violet and Grey.

Both units work just fine now, and they sound the same so far in my testing. Which one is right? Does it matter? Should I switch one of them around so they match?

 

[Volume11]

I have recently complete a build video for the VP312, check it out here:

I have a question as well. I put together two of these and my poor soldering skills had me double checking everything. I had some issues getting it to work at the beginning (you can see in the video) and it turns out it was the CA-0252 OpAmp. I can't recommend enought to have a known working OpAmp to at least test new builds with. In my troubleshooting, I noticed that the color code for the output transformer is different on the PCB compared to the the schematic (possibly). So in one I wired each transformer wire to the color indicated on the PCB and then the other I switched the Red and Brown with the Violet and Grey.

Both units work just fine now, and they sound the same so far in my testing. Which one is right? Does it matter? Should I switch one of them around so they match?

https://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/gallery/2503/2503-Litz-specs.pdf

I’m assuming you purchased the Litz transformer version. If so, I think that this is what you’re looking for.

 

[jsteiger]

I have recently complete a build video for the VP312, check it out here:

I have a question as well. I put together two of these and my poor soldering skills had me double checking everything. I had some issues getting it to work at the beginning (you can see in the video) and it turns out it was the CA-0252 OpAmp. I can't recommend enought to have a known working OpAmp to at least test new builds with. In my troubleshooting, I noticed that the color code for the output transformer is different on the PCB compared to the the schematic (possibly). So in one I wired each transformer wire to the color indicated on the PCB and then the other I switched the Red and Brown with the Violet and Grey.

Both units work just fine now, and they sound the same so far in my testing. Which one is right? Does it matter? Should I switch one of them around so they match?

You indeed must have the Litz outputs. There is a cross reference table on the 2503-Litz transformer datasheet.

You can find it here https://www.capi-gear.com/catalog/images/gallery/2503/2503-Litz-specs.pdf

There is also info on the VP25 build pictorial since the outputs are identical. https://capi-gear.com/catalog/Build_VP25-V_Rev_C.php#Sec5

 

[REDtone Studio]

I know I didn't order the Litz transformers. And as I mentioned when I follow the color pattern on the PCB, it did work just fine as well.

On the second one, as I was trouble shooting, I wired it up with the Red and Brown swapped with the Violet and Grey. For some reason, it has been a few weeks, in my tracing continuity on the PCB the schmatic seems to be wrong, where the mute switch is tied to the holes marked Violet and Grey on the PCB. Like I said, it's been a few weeks and when troubleshooting I spent hours reflowing solder and following the schematic point by point to find an issue.

All I know now, is that I have two working 312s that sound great... I should probably go back and wire them the same though, so I don't cause an issue somewhere down the line.

 

[jsteiger]

Oh yeah I see the pic in the thumbnail above and you have the EA2503 so the leads will match what's on the PCB silkscreen.

We use the Red/Brown winding as the primary. The Gray/Violet is unused on a VP312 so swapping them is fine as long as you put Gray to the Red pad and Violet to the Brown pad. If those are inverted your polarity will also be inverted.

 

[REDtone Studio]

Perfect! Thanks for the quick replies and awesome products! I'll swap them back so they are the same.