C800g/Warm audio Capacitor
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Icantthinkofaname
Well-known member
The WA251 also seems notably worse than Microphone-Parts 12-251 mic. There's also the "faithful" 414 clone by Warm that doesn't have a high pass filter or hypercardioid pattern. Granted the C414 doesn't have a whole lot of clones, but CAD and sE Electronics managed to include those features on their utility mics.
benqbasic
Well-known member
How is it notably worse? It seems to have a better capsule, tube and probably transformer. Warm also follows the correct pattern switching (all be it using relays).
Icantthinkofaname
Well-known member
Better capsule according to who? At the end of the day it's still a Chinese capsule that's attempting to mimick a CK12, but it's still built like a K67. The 12-251 from Mic-Parts sounds better to my ears and there's a comparison on YouTube where an engineer who has multiple vintage 251s prefers the Mic-Parts mic to the WA251. I think it's smoother and responds better to transients. As awesome as I think the 3U mics are, and apparently Warm uses their capsules, I don't think that Warm products are all that great, however I think 3U's stuff is phenomenal (so I'm guessing if it is 3U components it's being tuned or built differently). I can think of another manufacturer of premium clones which has capsules that cost $200-300 that sound worse than $30 Chinese capsules, with quite a few capsules bought from them having damaged diaphragms. Said company gets great reviews from tons of people and has a bunch of mics that cost well over $1000, but compare pretty poorly to cheaper similar mics. I can think of a U87 "clone" made by that microphone lab a lot of people have said good things about that sounds really smeary when it comes to handling transients when recording instruments. Said lab's C414 clone also sounds really sibilant, probably moreso than a lot of $100 mics, and their C12 clone is even brighter than that.
lstation
New member
According to your post, you have no idea what you are talking about in regards to a Sony c800g but somehow you are offering a 1:1 modification service claiming to use what is inside a Sony c800g? The capacitor shown here is 100% not the one in a real Sony c800g, so it's doubtful that anything else you are using is correct as well. Pretending to know what you are talking about regarding a real Sony c800g is going to lead to a lot of upset customers when they find out that they were mislead. You haven't seen or touched the inside of a real Sony c800g and it's clear by the parts you are using. Let people know that you are just guessing!
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Hello!! Do you know what capacitor is in the C800G?
castell records
New member
esta es la Pgina Oficial para comprar los componentes del Sony C800g vende hasta el refrigerante y las válvulas, y otros... https://sony.encompass.com/item/10155964/Sony/1-126-076-91/
Para realizar la modificación del micrófono WA-8000 y acercarlo a las especificaciones del Sony C-800G, aquí tienes una lista detallada de los componentes necesarios junto con nombres y especificaciones específicos:
### Cápsula de Micrófono
- **Nombre**: K67-style Capsule
- **Modelo Recomendada**: Maiku K67 Capsule
- **Descripción**: Cápsula de doble diafragma basada en el diseño clásico K67, utilizada en micrófonos de alta gama.
### Tubo de Vacío
- **Nombre**: 6AU6
- **Modelo Recomendada**: Tung-Sol 6AU6A
- **Descripción**: Tubo de vacío pentodo utilizado en muchas aplicaciones de audio. La versión Tung-Sol es conocida por su calidad y confiabilidad.
### Sistema de Enfriamiento Peltier
- **Nombre**: TEC1-12706
- **Modelo Recomendada**: TEC1-12706 Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier
- **Descripción**: Módulo Peltier de 12V, 6A, utilizado para aplicaciones de refrigeración.
### Transformador de Salida
- **Nombre**: CM-2480
- **Modelo Recomendada**: CineMag CM-2480
- **Descripción**: Transformador de salida de audio de alta calidad utilizado en micrófonos profesionales para una mejor transferencia de señal.
### Componentes Electrónicos
#### Condensadores
- **Nombre**: Condensador de Tantalio
- **Modelo Recomendada**: KEMET T322E226K010AT
- **Descripción**: Condensador de tantalio de 22uF, 10V. Conocido por su estabilidad y rendimiento en aplicaciones de audio.
- **Nombre**: Condensador de Poliestireno
- **Modelo Recomendada**: WIMA FKP2 0.001uF 100V
- **Descripción**: Condensador de poliestireno de 0.001uF, 100V, utilizado en circuitos de audio por su baja distorsión y alta precisión.
#### Resistencias
- **Nombre**: Resistencia de Película Metálica
- **Modelo Recomendada**: Vishay Dale RN60D
- **Descripción**: Resistencia de precisión de película metálica, 1%, varios valores según el diseño específico del circuito. Por ejemplo, 100kΩ, 10kΩ, y 1MΩ.
### Fuentes de Compra
- **Cápsula de Micrófono**:
- [Maiku Microphones](https://www.maiku-microphones.com)
- [Microphone Parts](https://microphone-parts.com)
- **Tubo de Vacío**:
- [Tube Depot](https://www.tubedepot.com)
- [The Tube Store](https://www.thetubestore.com)
- **Sistema Peltier**:
- [Digi-Key](https://www.digikey.com)
- [Mouser Electronics](https://www.mouser.com)
- [Amazon](https://www.amazon.com)
- **Transformador de Salida**:
- [CineMag](https://cinemag.biz)
- [Lundahl Transformers](https://www.lundahltransformers.com)
- [Sowter Transformers](https://www.sowter.co.uk)
- **Condensadores y Resistencias**:
- [Mouser Electronics](https://www.mouser.com)
- [Digi-Key](https://www.digikey.com)
- [RS Components](https://www.rs-online.com)
### Consideraciones
Asegúrate de verificar la compatibilidad de estos componentes con el diseño del WA-8000. Además, puede ser útil consultar esquemas específicos del C-800G para asegurarte de que los componentes se integren correctamente en el circuito modificado.
Realizar esta modificación requiere conocimientos avanzados en electrónica y soldadura. Si no tienes experiencia previa, considera buscar la ayuda de un técnico de audio profesional.
Pretty sure the official forum language is English. And just because your browser possibly happens to auto-translate all the other posts into Spanish, it does NOT translate your posts back into English
cholmes777
Member
Can you share with us what that is? (Oh maybe its no tubes in the power supply?)
joking!Is the general consensus this Mic sucks??????? Im thinking about buying a used one some day. I know it does not sound exactly like the sony,
but can some EQ in the mic preamp get it there? Youtube vs's videos between the two, they aren't that much different in sound to be honest...
Don’t tell «them» @kingkorg !!!Can you share with us what that is? (Oh maybe its no tubes in the power supply?)
Is the general consensus this Mic sucks??????? Im thinking about buying a used one some day. I know it does not sound exactly like the sony,
but can some EQ in the mic preamp get it there? Youtube vs's videos between the two, they aren't that much different in sound to be honest...
Keep the secret recipe, a Secret!
Even if they torture you by playing the full Taylor Swift, Adele & Lady Caca record (MP3’s low res.) collection.
M
Addendum: I forgot Céline Dion in that list. As she actually used the C800G on some of her vocals.
Last edited:
cholmes777
Member
castell records
New member
Estructura del C800g
No no no ! Mucho Bullshito compadre!
Y un poco de trolling tambien!
This is encompass.com - I can check a replacement part for my washing machine on this. This is not the Sony Corporation website official. The caveat at the end says it all : “check (or ensure) compatibility of these parts with the WA-8000 (sic). Furthermore it could be useful to check/consult on the specific schematics ...etc etc”
M
PS: Bato, habla les en inglese. Que Los gringos poeden pensar quel les estais insultando a la mamá o disiendo que son todos maricas pues. No es bueno papito!!!
“Officer: Ok El Figo, who is the President of the United States of America then?
Cheech Marin: Oh man that’s easy, that’s the cowboy guy ...John Wayne!”
Boooorn ... een Eeeast L.A.
castell records
New member
No no no ! Mucho Bullshito compadre!
Y un poco de trolling tambien!
This is encompass.com - I can check a replacement part for my washing machine on this. This is not the Sony Corporation website official. The caveat at the end says it all : “check (or ensure) compatibility of these parts with the WA-8000 (sic). Furthermore it could be useful to check/consult on the specific schematics ...etc etc”
M
PS: Bato, habla les en inglese. Que Los gringos poeden pensar quel les estais insultando a la mamá o disiendo que son todos maricas pues. No es bueno papito!!!
“Officer: Ok El Figo, who is the President of the United States of America then?
Cheech Marin: Oh man that’s easy, that’s the cowboy guy ...John Wayne!”
Boooorn ... een Eeeast L.A.
castell records
New member
Step by Step
Step 1: Disassemble the WA-8000
Unplug the microphone: Make sure the microphone is completely disconnected from any power source.
Open the microphone: Carefully disassemble the microphone, taking note of how all the components are connected.
Step 2: Prepare the Circuit
Identify the preamplification section: Locate the section of the circuit that will be modified to integrate the 6AU6 tube.
Remove unnecessary components: Remove components that will not be necessary or that interfere with the new configuration.
Step 3: Assemble the Tube Socket
Install the socket: Place the 6AU6 tube socket in a suitable location inside the microphone chassis and secure it well.
Connect the socket:
Pin 1 (G1 - Control Grid): Connects the control grid through an input resistor (between 1MΩ and 10MΩ) to the audio input circuit.
Pin 2 (G3 - Suppressor Grid): Connects to ground.
Pin 3 (K - Cathode): Connects the cathode to ground through a cathode resistor (between 1kΩ and 10kΩ). You can add a capacitor in parallel.
Pin 4 and 5 (H - Filament): Connect the filament pins to a 6.3V DC/AC source.
Pin 7 (A - Anode): Connects the anode through a transformer or suitable resistor to the high voltage supply (B+).
Pin 8 (G2 - Screen Grid): Connects the screen grid through a resistor to the high voltage supply (B+).
Step 4: Install the Peltier Cooling System
Install the Peltier module (TEC1-12706):
Place the module in contact with the part of the microphone that needs to be cooled, usually near the tube.
Make sure the hot part of the module has sufficient heat dissipation.
Power Supply: Connect the Peltier module to a suitable power source that provides the necessary voltage and current (typically 12V DC).
Temperature Control: Consider using a temperature controller to avoid overloading the Peltier module.
Step 5: Plate Voltage Adjustment
Measure and adjust: Use a multimeter to measure the voltage at the anode and adjust the high voltage supply as necessary (between 100V and 200V).
Step 6: K67 Capsule Integration
Assemble the capsule: Install the K67 capsule in place of the original WA-8000 capsule.
Connect the capsule: Connect the capsule to the microphone circuit, making sure the connections are secure and properly polarized.
Step 7: Testing and Adjusting
Initial power on: Connect the microphone to the power source and turn it on. Monitor voltages and currents to make sure everything is working correctly.
Audio Testing: Connect the microphone to an audio test system and verify its operation.
Final Adjustments: Make adjustments to resistors and capacitors as necessary to optimize microphone performance.
Precautions
Safety: Working with high voltage can be dangerous. Take all necessary safety precautions.
Accuracy: Check all connections and components several times to ensure there are no errors.
Extensive testing: Perform extensive testing to ensure that the modified microphone is working properly and has no noise or distortion issues.
This guide provides you with a basic outline for modifying your WA-8000 microphone. Please note that this is an advanced project and may require additional adjustments based on the exact specifications of your microphone and your circuit design.
Step 1: Disassemble the WA-8000
Unplug the microphone: Make sure the microphone is completely disconnected from any power source.
Open the microphone: Carefully disassemble the microphone, taking note of how all the components are connected.
Step 2: Prepare the Circuit
Identify the preamplification section: Locate the section of the circuit that will be modified to integrate the 6AU6 tube.
Remove unnecessary components: Remove components that will not be necessary or that interfere with the new configuration.
Step 3: Assemble the Tube Socket
Install the socket: Place the 6AU6 tube socket in a suitable location inside the microphone chassis and secure it well.
Connect the socket:
Pin 1 (G1 - Control Grid): Connects the control grid through an input resistor (between 1MΩ and 10MΩ) to the audio input circuit.
Pin 2 (G3 - Suppressor Grid): Connects to ground.
Pin 3 (K - Cathode): Connects the cathode to ground through a cathode resistor (between 1kΩ and 10kΩ). You can add a capacitor in parallel.
Pin 4 and 5 (H - Filament): Connect the filament pins to a 6.3V DC/AC source.
Pin 7 (A - Anode): Connects the anode through a transformer or suitable resistor to the high voltage supply (B+).
Pin 8 (G2 - Screen Grid): Connects the screen grid through a resistor to the high voltage supply (B+).
Step 4: Install the Peltier Cooling System
Install the Peltier module (TEC1-12706):
Place the module in contact with the part of the microphone that needs to be cooled, usually near the tube.
Make sure the hot part of the module has sufficient heat dissipation.
Power Supply: Connect the Peltier module to a suitable power source that provides the necessary voltage and current (typically 12V DC).
Temperature Control: Consider using a temperature controller to avoid overloading the Peltier module.
Step 5: Plate Voltage Adjustment
Measure and adjust: Use a multimeter to measure the voltage at the anode and adjust the high voltage supply as necessary (between 100V and 200V).
Step 6: K67 Capsule Integration
Assemble the capsule: Install the K67 capsule in place of the original WA-8000 capsule.
Connect the capsule: Connect the capsule to the microphone circuit, making sure the connections are secure and properly polarized.
Step 7: Testing and Adjusting
Initial power on: Connect the microphone to the power source and turn it on. Monitor voltages and currents to make sure everything is working correctly.
Audio Testing: Connect the microphone to an audio test system and verify its operation.
Final Adjustments: Make adjustments to resistors and capacitors as necessary to optimize microphone performance.
Precautions
Safety: Working with high voltage can be dangerous. Take all necessary safety precautions.
Accuracy: Check all connections and components several times to ensure there are no errors.
Extensive testing: Perform extensive testing to ensure that the modified microphone is working properly and has no noise or distortion issues.
This guide provides you with a basic outline for modifying your WA-8000 microphone. Please note that this is an advanced project and may require additional adjustments based on the exact specifications of your microphone and your circuit design.
Attachments
Deadly Mix
Audio-engineer
I've heard enough modded knockoff C800-Gs to conlcude, they're not worth it. The rare and extremely expensive tubes are a big factor in the sound/performance and each tube will you set you back far enough that you're better off selling it and buying a better mic instead.
I'm telling you this as someone who hoards original Sony C800-G tubes whenever I find them for our C800-G at the studio and I consider selling it sometimes based solely on the cost and hassle of finding them.
They were made by 1 factory in Ukraine owned by 2 brothers (according to my rep at Sony). 1 of the brothers died and the remaining brother closed up the business. The final run of C800-Gs were supposedly made possible because someone at Sony found a lost stock of tubes in one of their warehouses. They made a last limited run, saved enough for warranty repairs, then listed the remaining tubes for sale on their website. It was something ridiculously low like 13 tubes, if I remember correctly.
I got a phone call telling me they'd be posted on the Sony website in 30 minutes. I wasn't the only person who got a phone call because I refreshed the page over and over on my phone for half an hour and in that half a second free-for-all I was only able to get 1 tube for, I think, $500. Then, it was back to checking eBay over and over to pay as much as $1,200 per tube. Usually $1k each. The PSU uses reject tubes that weren't good enough to earn the part number for the mic itself but are good enough for the PSU. I've tried all the knockoffs and some mods of them, hoping to get lucky enough to find an alternative with readily available tubes that I could sell the Sony, buy a pair of, and have plenty funds left for other things around the studio, but none of them are anything like the real C800-G. A Manley reference will get you much closer than any of them.
The Sony C800-G is always smooth, never harsh, even when the source itself is a little harsh. Every vocal immediately sounds polished and compressed, making EQ/compression optional. It handles drastic sudden SPL changes, like going from a soft whisper immediately into belting out the next syllable like Mariah Carey, as smooth and without distortion as if it never happened (other than the volume difference, of course). Despite its total lack of harshness, its still somehow the brightest clearest most detailed mic there is. It destroys the Neumann U47 in that regard and falls short of it nowhere (U47 is still great for its distinct character though). I'd rank the Neumann M49 just below it followed by the Elam 251 and AKG C12. Its like if the C12 or 251 were upgraded in every way.
While I suspect someone here has the ability to replicate it right, it would cost a lot of money for them to do so, and even then that person would have to be someone who puts David Bock to shame... Possible but unlikely.
I'm telling you this as someone who hoards original Sony C800-G tubes whenever I find them for our C800-G at the studio and I consider selling it sometimes based solely on the cost and hassle of finding them.
They were made by 1 factory in Ukraine owned by 2 brothers (according to my rep at Sony). 1 of the brothers died and the remaining brother closed up the business. The final run of C800-Gs were supposedly made possible because someone at Sony found a lost stock of tubes in one of their warehouses. They made a last limited run, saved enough for warranty repairs, then listed the remaining tubes for sale on their website. It was something ridiculously low like 13 tubes, if I remember correctly.
I got a phone call telling me they'd be posted on the Sony website in 30 minutes. I wasn't the only person who got a phone call because I refreshed the page over and over on my phone for half an hour and in that half a second free-for-all I was only able to get 1 tube for, I think, $500. Then, it was back to checking eBay over and over to pay as much as $1,200 per tube. Usually $1k each. The PSU uses reject tubes that weren't good enough to earn the part number for the mic itself but are good enough for the PSU. I've tried all the knockoffs and some mods of them, hoping to get lucky enough to find an alternative with readily available tubes that I could sell the Sony, buy a pair of, and have plenty funds left for other things around the studio, but none of them are anything like the real C800-G. A Manley reference will get you much closer than any of them.
The Sony C800-G is always smooth, never harsh, even when the source itself is a little harsh. Every vocal immediately sounds polished and compressed, making EQ/compression optional. It handles drastic sudden SPL changes, like going from a soft whisper immediately into belting out the next syllable like Mariah Carey, as smooth and without distortion as if it never happened (other than the volume difference, of course). Despite its total lack of harshness, its still somehow the brightest clearest most detailed mic there is. It destroys the Neumann U47 in that regard and falls short of it nowhere (U47 is still great for its distinct character though). I'd rank the Neumann M49 just below it followed by the Elam 251 and AKG C12. Its like if the C12 or 251 were upgraded in every way.
While I suspect someone here has the ability to replicate it right, it would cost a lot of money for them to do so, and even then that person would have to be someone who puts David Bock to shame... Possible but unlikely.
Accelerator
Well-known member
Although the Sony C800-G was not, it is not and will be not “my cup of tea” microphone, as I always consider it as the very brightest – clearest – polished ridiculous overpriced microphone “the darling of the Hip Hop music industry” which I don’t like, I’m here to help, by posting the Sony C800-G microphone schematic…
Accelerator
Well-known member
I also find very interesting this article by the Canadian Brian Fox, at May 28, 2016, for this microphone, which it is a very good technical “food for thoughts” for the DIY community, as it is explains how the Sony’s marketing and more universally how the industry marketing plays an important role in our decisions…
Making An 800 Clone
https://foxaudioresearch.ca/c800clone.htm
Making An 800 Clone
https://foxaudioresearch.ca/c800clone.htm
vintagelove
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2013
- Messages
- 185
FWIW, the newest Sony now uses a 12at7 (if I remember correctly) in the power supply, and it runs the tube in the mic at 6.3v.
While yes, the amplifier is beautiful, clean, wide bandwidth and quiet, I don't think that is the primary driver of the sound. Why???
Well, I also have a Neumann 87 here with the innertube audio tube retrofit. So long story short, a k67 followed by a tube amp with little to no high end roll off.
They are definitely more alike than different, but the Neumann has that 900-2k cut/authority and the Sony has more going on above 9k. I would bet my money on that difference starting at the capsule (which is available from Sony, and if I were building a clone, the first place I would start).
Lastly, everyone talks about the Sony highs, but the lows are beautifully extended and deep. It is a very "finished" sound.
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