Compact desktop line mixer?

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Thank you for pointing out the clearance issues on the panel. I will have to keep that in mind when I layout the final panel. Things are still subject to change since I haven’t finalized the pots or the PCB layouts yet.

The supplier website you linked to does have a lot of pots, but the selection is strangely limited - for example, while they do have 50K dual gang liner pots with center-detent, they only carry them with a shaft length of 18.5mm, whereas the single log pots they carry only come in 11mm shaft length. Yes, I could cut 7.5mm off of each dual pot…but that’s a real pain.
[I could cut 7.5mm off of each dual pot] -- Or.....you -- could -- move the 18.5mm shafted pots back an additional 7.5mm back from the PCB-edge and accomplish the same thing.

>> Carefully take a look at the dimensions going across these two drawings. Take notice that the row centerlines are not all the same. In real-life, this creates all manners of issues and problems!!! In addition, I would also strongly suggest that you come up with consistently -- EVEN or "ROUNDED-OFF -- dimensions!!! That -- 16.949 -- dimension could just as easily be 17.00mm.
1739164183378.png

>> The -- 37.549 -- dimension seen below just as easily be 38.00 for consistency. -- In addition, the columns/rows of cutouts over on the right-side of this front-panel are also, what I consider to be, "oddball" dimensions. Since you don't have to mate anything here to a -- BACKPLANE -- as is required with anything in the "500-Series", then....."fudge" your dimensions around some so the components placement dimensions end-up being "whole numbers" (i.e., XX.00), instead of some fractional dimension that ends up being XX.28 or YY.47 or ZZ.73. You can do it!!! I KNOW YOU CAN!!!.....
1739166337462.png

>> While I do recognize that these two drawings are NOT dimensioned properly, this drawing style was the only way I had available in order to show you the various dimensional relationships that there are within your different patterned hole cutouts. Of course, since this is -- YOUR -- panel-design, should you wish to accept how things are as I have shown them, that's your call.

>> You also need to be aware of this important detail.....the rotary-pot holes, the switch holes and the LED-holes have all been slightly enlarged in order for them to offer some clearance tolerance gap-space. Your selected parts basically -- WOULD NOT HAVE FIT -- into your originally-specified cutout dimensions, so I have ever-so-slightly enlarged these hole cutouts..

Now...............even though I am extremely hesitant to mention this, since this is -- YOUR -- panel-design, I'm going to just merely throw-out a "suggestion" for you to think about OK??? It doesn't matter to me whether you accept my suggestion or not, OK???

>> I don't use "Front Panel Designer" nor am I even familiar with how it operates and "does its thing"!!! So, the various errors/issues that I am seeing here in your panel-design are ones that I don't know if they are from the program itself, or if they are a result of however it is that you are using the program. In any case, if you were to send out this FPD panel-design file and have a panel fabricated from it, you are going to have a rather difficult time with everything when it comes time for you to try and assemble all of the parts and circuit-boards that make-up this project. And.....it would have cost you a ton of money as well!!! So.....here is my suggestion.....

Send me some kind of a sketch or drawing or "something" of -- WHAT -- you would like for all of the dimensions to be as here in your panel-design and then let me create the actual sheet-metal panel-design itself using my SolidWorks Premium program. Once I have and know what the actual dimensions -- SHOULD BE -- then it is nothing for me to use the specialized sheet-metal features that I have available like "Linear Pattern" (which then has 8 sub-sections to select from). Creating all of your linear and rotary potentiometer hole cutouts and slots only takes about 4-clicks. In creating the Linear-Fader M3 countersunk holes, I only need to create a single hole-feature and then it's around 4-clicks more to create the rest of them using the "Linear Pattern" feature. It's the same thing for all of the rotary-pots, LED's and switches. Not only that, but you are also guaranteed that all of the dimensions will be accurate and precise practically down to the molecular-level!!!

Once I have created your panel-design, I can do a "Save As" as an -- STP -- file, import that into my "Front-Panel Designer" program, do another "Save As" as an -- FPD -- file and send that off to you. From there, you can import my -- FPD -- file into your program and then you can create all of your graphics and text for your finalized "Mini-Mixer" design. Would this work for you?

However.....I do get it. This is -- YOUR -- project, so you want to do it all. I get it. But, the way things are looking to me, what you have come up with so far is only "destined to fail" because.....for whatever reasons.....you haven't considered and/or have thought of all of the fine-point mechanical design details that are going to "bite you" and eventually -- KILL -- the success of your project here. That's all.....

Comment???.....

>> Here is what I have come up with so far as to what your "Mini-Mixer" could possibly look like in "real life".....

1739175477121.png
1739175573916.png


1739176338260.png

>> Do you see the little -- ORANGE -- horizontal doo-dads in your front-panel? Those items are "Anti-Rotation Tabs" that are a part of the "Rotary Potentiometers". They keep the pots from being twisted on the PCB. You will either need to: 1) Break them off from all of the pots, or 2) Include additional small slots into your front-panel sheet-metal design so they can go through the panel. I'm just pointing this item out to you, that's all.

1739176680839.png


>> This image is just so you can see a close-up of your front-panel with all of the
rotary-potentiometer hardware, including a panel-washer and a potentiometer shaft-nut:

1739178511792.png
>> I had to either "source and download" CAD-files for all of these hardware items or, I had to literally create and design them myself, because no 3D CAD-files exist for these types of mundane parts. Such is life, huh???

/
 
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[I could cut 7.5mm off of each dual pot] -- Or.....you -- could -- move the 18.5mm shafted pots back an additional 7.5mm back from the PCB-edge and accomplish the same thing.
But then the pot bush would not be able to be fitted to the front panel so the pot pins would be the only mechanical support for the pot which is definitely not good practice.

Cheers

Ian
 
The trouble is that I need a dual 50k Linear pot with center detent, as well as a single 10k audio (log) taper without detent from the same series (ideally).

The best I can find at the moment is this Bourns dual pot:
View attachment 145493

And this Bourns single pot (same shaft length, despite the picture):
View attachment 145494

Unfortunately, the single one is "Non Stocked" at Mouser.
Since it's a console design, why not use these for 50k?

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/RK09L124000Z?qs=fQ8kcZGzY5XvGyzlPd/K1w==


Also, does it have to be 50k for the pan pots? The small and mid sized Allen and Heath analog desks use 10k, which I have used as well with good results.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/RK14K1240036?qs=6EGMNY9ZYDQe7xEpJN6reQ==

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PTV112-3212A-B103?qs=DoSw0ytdom7MHd3JnqIFFw==

Thanks!

Paul
 
[I could cut 7.5mm off of each dual pot] -- Or.....you -- could -- move the 18.5mm shafted pots back an additional 7.5mm back from the PCB-edge and accomplish the same thing.

>> Carefully take a look at the dimensions going across these two drawings. Take notice that the row centerlines are not all the same. In real-life, this creates all manners of issues and problems!!! In addition, I would also strongly suggest that you come up with consistently -- EVEN or "ROUNDED-OFF -- dimensions!!! That -- 16.949 -- dimension could just as easily be 17.00mm.
View attachment 145519

>> The -- 37.549 -- dimension seen below just as easily be 38.00 for consistency. -- In addition, the columns/rows of cutouts over on the right-side of this front-panel are also, what I consider to be, "oddball" dimensions. Since you don't have to mate anything here to a -- BACKPLANE -- as is required with anything in the "500-Series", then....."fudge" your dimensions around some so the components placement dimensions end-up being "whole numbers" (i.e., XX.00), instead of some fractional dimension that ends up being XX.28 or YY.47 or ZZ.73. You can do it!!! I KNOW YOU CAN!!!.....
View attachment 145520

>> While I do recognize that these two drawings are NOT dimensioned properly, this drawing style was the only way I had available in order to show you the various dimensional relationships that there are within your different patterned hole cutouts. Of course, since this is -- YOUR -- panel-design, should you wish to accept how things are as I have shown them, that's your call.

>> You also need to be aware of this important detail.....the rotary-pot holes, the switch holes and the LED-holes have all been slightly enlarged in order for them to offer some clearance tolerance gap-space. Your selected parts basically -- WOULD NOT HAVE FIT -- into your originally-specified cutout dimensions, so I have ever-so-slightly enlarged these hole cutouts..

Now...............even though I am extremely hesitant to mention this, since this is -- YOUR -- panel-design, I'm going to just merely throw-out a "suggestion" for you to think about OK??? It doesn't matter to me whether you accept my suggestion or not, OK???

>> I don't use "Front Panel Designer" nor am I even familiar with how it operates and "does its thing"!!! So, the various errors/issues that I am seeing here in your panel-design are ones that I don't know if they are from the program itself, or if they are a result of however it is that you are using the program. In any case, if you were to send out this FPD panel-design file and have a panel fabricated from it, you are going to have a rather difficult time with everything when it comes time for you to try and assemble all of the parts and circuit-boards that make-up this project. And.....it would have cost you a ton of money as well!!! So.....here is my suggestion.....

Send me some kind of a sketch or drawing or "something" of -- WHAT -- you would like for all of the dimensions to be as here in your panel-design and then let me create the actual sheet-metal panel-design itself using my SolidWorks Premium program. Once I have and know what the actual dimensions -- SHOULD BE -- then it is nothing for me to use the specialized sheet-metal features that I have available like "Linear Pattern" (which then has 8 sub-sections to select from). Creating all of your linear and rotary potentiometer hole cutouts and slots only takes about 4-clicks. In creating the Linear-Fader M3 countersunk holes, I only need to create a single hole-feature and then it's around 4-clicks more to create the rest of them using the "Linear Pattern" feature. It's the same thing for all of the rotary-pots, LED's and switches. Not only that, but you are also guaranteed that all of the dimensions will be accurate and precise practically down to the molecular-level!!!

Once I have created your panel-design, I can do a "Save As" as an -- STP -- file, import that into my "Front-Panel Designer" program, do another "Save As" as an -- FPD -- file and send that off to you. From there, you can import my -- FPD -- file into your program and then you can create all of your graphics and text for your finalized "Mini-Mixer" design. Would this work for you?

However.....I do get it. This is -- YOUR -- project, so you want to do it all. I get it. But, the way things are looking to me, what you have come up with so far is only "destined to fail" because.....for whatever reasons.....you haven't considered and/or have thought of all of the fine-point mechanical design details that are going to "bite you" and eventually -- KILL -- the success of your project here. That's all.....

Comment???.....

>> Here is what I have come up with so far as to what your "Mini-Mixer" could possibly look like in "real life".....

View attachment 145521
View attachment 145522


View attachment 145523

>> Do you see the little -- ORANGE -- horizontal doo-dads in your front-panel? Those items are "Anti-Rotation Tabs" that are a part of the "Rotary Potentiometers". They keep the pots from being twisted on the PCB. You will either need to: 1) Break them off from all of the pots, or 2) Include additional small slots into your front-panel sheet-metal design so they can go through the panel. I'm just pointing this item out to you, that's all.

View attachment 145524


>> This image is just so you can see a close-up of your front-panel with all of the
rotary-potentiometer hardware, including a panel-washer and a potentiometer shaft-nut:

View attachment 145525
>> I had to either "source and download" CAD-files for all of these hardware items or, I had to literally create and design them myself, because no 3D CAD-files exist for these types of mundane parts. Such is life, huh???

/
I absolutely appreciate the mock-ups, and it’s very cool to see what it might look like, thank you! As for the details you pointed out, as I’ve said before this was just a proof of concept, a preproduction mock up, a feasibility study - not indented for production. Not intended to be perfect or complete. I still don’t have a final circuit or the final parts selected, so there’s a long road to go before making a final design.

As @ruffrecords pointed out, the pots can’t be set back, because the mechanical mating of the bushings to the panel is necessary.
 
Since it's a console design, why not use these for 50k?

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/RK09L124000Z?qs=fQ8kcZGzY5XvGyzlPd/K1w==


Also, does it have to be 50k for the pan pots? The small and mid sized Allen and Heath analog desks use 10k, which I have used as well with good results.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Alps-Alpine/RK14K1240036?qs=6EGMNY9ZYDQe7xEpJN6reQ==

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PTV112-3212A-B103?qs=DoSw0ytdom7MHd3JnqIFFw==

Thanks!

Paul
For the PCB mounting scheme we’ve been discussing, the pots need to be horizontal-mount, not vertical-mount, and unfortunately, it doesn’t look like 10K pan pots will work, if they did, I already had parts selected.

Finding suitable pots is one of the hardest parts. Part of me wants to go back to single-gang pan pots for sourcing simplicity.
 
I have designed many mixers/consoles using single (linear taper) pan pots.

edit/ I have lots (hundreds) of Alps 50k dual S-taper pots sitting around from my old kit business (not PC mount).

S-Taper is linear 50% at mid position but with some curvature at both extremes.

JR
 
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