COVID-19

[shabtek]

belief and medicine in same sentence

god help us indeed

 

[JohnRoberts]

A new John's Hopkins study reports that "lockdowns, school closures and limiting gatherings only reduced COVID mortality by 0.2%".

Next step is to evaluate the harm we did to small business and childhood development.

Of course hindsight is always crystal clear, but the lockdown crowd is still pushing their agenda.

JR

 

[shabtek]

I am not sure it is an agenda at least not universally.
you claim to be an amateur herdsman, herd thought moves slowly, not everyone gets the same info at the same time
when info is conflicting first-hand experience will eventually be a guide

 

[crazydoc]

A potential reason (obesity) covid deaths are so high in US. (And maybe it's not just fat people, but the prevalence of fatheads too.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...r&wpisrc=nl_opinions&utm_campaign=wp_opinions
Paywall, so here's the gist:

When it comes to deaths per infection, however, the study found two factors loomed largest: the aging of a given country and its average body-mass index, a measure of obesity.
The United States’ national average body-mass index ranks near the heaviest among all countries. If instead we were just average — roughly the level of Denmark — the death rate would have been 19.5 percent lower between Jan. 1, 2020, and Sept. 30, 2021, the study’s lead author, Thomas J. Bollyky of the Council on Foreign Relations, told me in an interview. That is, some 157,000 fewer people would have died during those 21 months.

 

[JohnRoberts]

BMI is a factor not to mention people kept alive beyond their prime due to a competent health care system. Kept alive not necessarily kept healthy.

I am also suspicious that some (?) deaths were misreported as Covid for the extra compensation.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

I am also suspicious that some (?) deaths were misreported as Covid for the extra compensation.

JR

That has been a theory ever since the beginning of the pandemic, but I've never seen a realistic explanation of how that could be achieved. Maybe you could walk me through how a doctor could receive increased compensation by misrepresenting covid as the cause of death on a death certificate.

 

[Script]

If anything, COVID cases in Japan have always been underreported. Yet, basic hospitalization and death ratio of officially reported cases (that is in percentages of total cases) have always been pretty comparable to other countries (Brazil may be the exception).

Yet, last quarterly report by Covid-designated hospitals nationwide drew a very bleak picture. With anything up to delta, many of them managed to just break even thanks to state subsidies, but there were also quite a few that did not break even despite state subsidies. Treatment with monoclonal was very expensive ($2500 or so for one pouch). Do that for too long and healthcare infrastructure is gone.

Anyway, now we have BA.1 and BA.2.

 

[JohnRoberts]

To repeat, I wrote I was suspicious that "some(?)" deaths were misreported.

That theory was shared by my neighbor multiple times over the last couple years. He is a druggist working across the street from one of the major hospitals in Meridian, and has one or more relatives (nieces/nephews) working inside local hospitals or doctor's offices. I will ask him about specifics the next time we speak.

My distrust is of hospitals who receive more compensation for covid patients. This fact check article claims over reporting does not occur- fact check link

It is true, however, that the government will pay more to hospitals for COVID-19 cases in two senses: By paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency, and by reimbursing hospitals for treating the uninsured patients with the disease (at that enhanced Medicare rate).

Both of those provisions stem from the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, or CARES Act.

The CARES Act created the 20% add-on to be paid for Medicare patients with COVID-19. The act further created a $100 billion fund that is being used to financially assist hospitals — a “portion” of which will be “used to reimburse healthcare providers, at Medicare rates, for COVID-related treatment of the uninsured,” according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
==
“If we think it’s presumptive … we can go ahead and put down COVID-19,” Jensen said, “or even in some situations, even if it’s negative.” He pointed to the example of a 38-year-old man in Minnesota whose death was attributed to the coronavirus even though he tested negative.

This is not evidence of misreporting but a strong financial incentive to do so. Forgive me for not trusting the integrity of hospital billing practices but they have been playing games with insurance companies wrt billing for as long as I have been paying attention. I went for over a decade without insurance and paid way too much, out of pocket for procedures like a basic MRI.

In addition to errors related to testing, a number of people died at home untested with presumed COD. My one neighbor who likely died from(?) Covid, died at home a week after he was released from the hospital. He was in his nineties so could have died from a cold. I don't know how his death was reported.

I'll see if my neighbor has any anecdotal observations from people he knows working in the local hospitals. Just like vote shenanigans likely don't result in statistical significance, I would be extremely surprised if hospitals undercounted their Covid cases forgoing extra revenue. Some out of system covid deaths may have been underreported.

JR

PS: I just read a newspaper article with healthcare workers complaining that traveling nurses are earning two times their pre-covid pay scales distorting that workplace. I suspect that premium pay gravy train will wind down shortly but could imagine some career changes rather than taking a 50% pay cut.

 

[crazydoc]

Posting that you are "suspicious" that some deaths are misreported, without any evidence, is right out of Conspiracy Theory 101. "I've heard that ...."

I'm not saying that hospitals don't lie to insurance about covid diagnoses. But here in the US the covid deaths are gleaned from death certificates, not hospital records, and the attending physician writes in the cause(es) of death and signs it. I can see that a few outliers may fudge this (avarice is present in all walks of life) if getting a kickback from the hospital, but I can't see that being common enough to skew the data.

https://usafacts.org/articles/how-d...ntgztgRcNWapNb7HZ2DKgXWEOZZW3tRIaAl-0EALw_wcB

 

[AnalogPackrat]

There is absolutely a financial incentive for positive diagnosis no matter how mild. And then there's an incentive to have patients on ventilators as well. I'm sure most facilities aren't abusing this, but you can bet that some are. And deaths "with" covid went into the official count for going on two years now. This is not "news."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ore-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

 

[AnalogPackrat]

https://www.christianpost.com/news/...etary-incentive-to-inflate-covid-19-data.html

 

[AnalogPackrat]

https://www.christianpost.com/news/...etary-incentive-to-inflate-covid-19-data.html

 

[JohnRoberts]

Posting that you are "suspicious" that some deaths are misreported, without any evidence, is right out of Conspiracy Theory 101. "I've heard that ...."

Don't confuse me with our resident conspiracy nut... Being suspicious and "following the money" are key tenets of critical thinking. I like to promote critical thinking, conspiracy not so much.

I have even questioned my personal physician before and won the occasional difference of opinion by citing pub-med research that supported my judgement.

I'm not saying that hospitals don't lie to insurance about covid diagnoses. But here in the US the covid deaths are gleaned from death certificates, not hospital records, and the attending physician writes in the cause(es) of death and signs it. I can see that a few outliers may fudge this (averice is present in all walks of life) if getting a kickback from the hospital, but I can't see that being common enough to skew the data.

https://usafacts.org/articles/how-d...ntgztgRcNWapNb7HZ2DKgXWEOZZW3tRIaAl-0EALw_wcB

I don't know if the hippocratic oath covers this. One might argue they are improving the conditions for their live patients by winning more revenue for their mother ship hospital.

This is far from the most important issue related to Covid, so carry on. I will report back if I get some more information from my druggist neighbor pertaining to this locally.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

Counting deaths is a conundrum, as is the pandemic itself, not black and white like so many want to believe.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00104-8

 

[JohnRoberts]

Death seems pretty black and white and IMO the more important covid statistic, especially while the news was trying to scare us with massive infection rate numbers.

Everything these days is politically charged with word definitions subject to change.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

Death seems pretty black and white and IMO the more important covid statistic, especially while the news was trying to scare us with massive infection rate numbers.

JR

Even death is not black and white - brain or heart - and the causes may be pretty unclear.

Bob Saget:

• Abrasion of the posterior scalp
• Subgaleal hemorrhage underlying the abrasion
• Linear fracture of the base of the skull
• Comminuted fractures of the roofs of the orbits involving the bilateral frontal bone
• Bilateral partial periorbital ecchymoses
• Subdural hematoma
• Subarachnoid hemorrhage
• Contrecoup contusions involving the bilateral frontal lobes and bilateral temporal lobes

Must have been quite a blow to cause all that.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Even death is not black and white - brain or heart - and the causes may be pretty unclear.

Bob Saget:

• Abrasion of the posterior scalp
• Subgaleal hemorrhage underlying the abrasion
• Linear fracture of the base of the skull
• Comminuted fractures of the roofs of the orbits involving the bilateral frontal bone
• Bilateral partial periorbital ecchymoses
• Subdural hematoma
• Subarachnoid hemorrhage
• Contrecoup contusions involving the bilateral frontal lobes and bilateral temporal lobes

Must have been quite a blow to cause all that.

are you suggesting he might not be dead?

JR

 

[crazydoc]

are you suggesting he might not be dead?

JR

LOL!

I'd think a blow like that would have knocked him out. Maybe it did, and he regained consciousness and crawled back into bed and died. But the cause? - you'd think there would be some evidence in the room of what he hit if that were the case.

 

[grid_stopper]

Hopefully not too much of a veer, but I recently had a 40 degree celsius fever as well as an unbelievable tension headache at the back of my head, this went on without relent for 7 days before deciding to go to the hospital. The nurse shot me full of fluids, muscle relaxant, took blood and a PCR test. 1 hour later before any results came back the doctor comes in and says "you have covid" "really? I rapid tested 4 times, all negative, and dont have any of the symptoms beyond the fever." "no, your symptoms are typical of covid" and with no further explanation, I was discharged. Fastforward 1.5 days, PCR comes back-no covid. Turns out I had meningitis, and had to be hospitalized again, which was honestly pretty frightening.

Anyways, the point of this poorly formatted tangent is, im ready to see the end of this. I can only imagine how many other people something similar has happened to.

 

[Tubetec]

The biggest cash cow in all this is from the massive uptake in psyciatric meds , it dwarfs the profits from the sale of vaccines , but its many of the same players involved .

https://www.cchrint.org/issues/the-corrupt-alliance-of-the-psychiatric-pharmaceutical-industry/
that obviously dates long before the emergence of Covid , but the makers were poised to make vast profits due to privation caused by the reaction to covid , its win win win all the way . Ive seen several good friends reduced to shadows of their former selves and left in an even worse state of batshit craziness after they started to take that crap .

I personally went through a brief time many years ago where I was trying to come to terms with childhood experiences , Im not a religious person , but in the short time I was cajoled into taking Seroquel I was convinced I was in direct contact with the lord himself , luckily I told the doctors and psychiatrists where to stuff their pills and set about finding a talking cure for my ills , never looked back . Just lately here in Ireland a scandal has emerged where children in abusive situations in the home were systematically administered these mind altering substances to numb them , consultant psychiatrist positions have remained un filled in many more rural parts of this country for years , its just the same as the old days , the system seeks to nullify the testimoney of those who it negelected by branding them crazy , the pills only lead to a downhill slope and the further you get into them the harder it is to extracate yourself from it , psychiatry is tantamount to witchcraft in my book .