covid politics

[Matador]

PS: I appreciate that this looks like me blaming China for this, but IMO they really are responsible for a lot of the bad news.

Trump Jr. agrees with you John!  8)

 

[JohnRoberts]

Scape-goating is the flip-side of fear.

Fear of something, anything -- and since this is a politics thread, probably also the fear of loosing an election.

that is actually on topic, both sides appear interested in influencing the election any way they can.

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Underestimated at first, I guess so. Then the thought it might be overestimated by WHO, since they did a less than stellar job on the previous one.

Underestimated probably also by China. I don't believe the Chinese are that different as people from anybody else. Also, we cannot really expect that they should have known much more back then, than many more almost worldwide still don't know even by now.

The Chinese people are not very different, but the communist government is quite different in significant ways from western governments, like denying access to international health inspectors and not honestly sharing very important early infection data. Chinese doctors and local political leaders wanted to warn the world. The Chinese government shut them down. 

It is an open secret that China fudges economic data but this misinformation is deadly serious (literally).

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Yes, I also recalled Bill Gate's words the other day who has warned of something like this for a long time.

There are always sky is falling types, and eventually some of them can be right by chance. Bill's charity is involved in multiple world health missions so he is better informed about global health than most.

Coincidentally Bill Gates is a target of conspiracy theories with people accusing him of being jointly responsible for creating and unleashing this pandemic... as some kind of globalist over-population remedy. Likely people connecting dots that do not exist (I hope). I do not buy what they are selling, but some people do.

====

Of course our government's handling of this pandemic is fair game for inspection after the fact, but maybe we can wait until we are a little further down the road before beginning the formal inquisition (the impeachment crowd is itching to dig into this). There will be several government agencies needing to answer for various missteps.

I understand the urgency if your world view is that this administration is totally incompetent and continues driving us into the ditch possibly killing millions. Alternately if you think the administration is doing as good as they possibly can, then all the attacks seem counter productive and even harmful to public health.  The reality is somewhere between those two extremes. Prudent to avoid either extreme in these hyper-partisan times (In my opinion they are now doing a fair job, but had a less than stellar start).

Pointing out China's culpability in this may look like typical whataboutism, but the exponential growth of this pandemic makes errors at the beginning that caused delays in taking action, more significant down the road.

Of course opinions vary.

JR 

 

[hodad]

Pointing out China's culpability in this may look like typical whataboutism, but the exponential growth of this pandemic makes errors at the beginning that caused delays in taking action, more significant down the road.

JR

 

Speaking of errors at the beginning, here's one for you:

A Trump adviser working with White House officials on messaging for the pandemic response said Trump "took a gamble" that warmer weather would cause the virus to dissipate, siding with aides who were pushing back on the dire warnings coming from doctors on the coronavirus task force.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/politics/white-house-measures-make-a-difference/index.html

I probably said here that I suspected that was Trump's gambit, and one of the reasons he didn't push to get testing out faster. 

Hunches over science.  It was an early mistake, and boy is it costing us now. 

 

[cyrano]

I am getting so thin skinned from all this daily political drama that I felt a lady bug bite my arm the other day while working out in the yard. I didn't even know that they could bite... Since they eat aphids, they must be able to bite...  :

Ladybugs don't eat or bite when they look like a ladybug (their adult form). The larvae of some species otoh eat large quantities of aphids. There are, however also plant eating species and these eat while in adult form.

If it bit you, it's not a typical coccinellid. It could be a spider mimicking a ladybug. I'm not sure these exist in the USA. The species I know of are of Asian origine.

It seems the drama in the media is reversing over here. The first critical noises are starting to emanate from the media.

 

[hodad]

Here's one of those CDC updates  linked from that article......

JR

You're trying really hard to justify your faith in Trump.  It gets harder every day, doesn't it? 
I didn't have to go past Trump's own words(and actions) and the words of an advisor to Trump.  Maybe it's time to stop all your contortions of rationalization and admit that trumped has botched this in a big way.

 

[kambo]

Ladybugs don't eat or bite when they look like a ladybug (their adult form). The larvae of some species otoh eat large quantities of aphids. There are, however also plant eating species and these eat while in adult form.

If it bit you, it's not a typical coccinellid. It could be a spider mimicking a ladybug. I'm not sure these exist in the USA. The species I know of are of Asian origine.

It seems the drama in the media is reversing over here. The first critical noises are starting to emanate from the media.

where r u getting all this info from 

i prefer US expert info  ;D
https://www.terminix.com/pest-control/lady-bugs/bites/

 

[iturnknobs]

i think people start to realize how idiot democrats are  8)

Who does this gentleman provide legal counsel to? Scary. I suppose the removal of this tweet from social media is a violation of the 1st amendment... As I said before, I can only hope that this crisis brings about major positive change. It is unfortunate that pain is the only really effective catalyst for the human race to change. What do all the remaining states to declare a stay-at-home order have in common? One guess. Opinions are one thing and facts are another.

 

[iturnknobs]

Alabama
Gov. Kay Ivey said she did not plan to issue a statewide order, saying that she wanted to balance the health of the state's residents with the health of the economy. "Y’all, we are not California, we’re not New York, we aren’t even Louisiana," she said on a conference call with reporters, according to AL.com. Birmingham, the largest city in the state, has issued a shelter-in-place order for its residents.

Alabama has a higher infection rate per capita than California. :-\

 

[iturnknobs]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-governor-coronavirus-asymptomatic.amp

I suppose China's lack of transparency is the reason why our country has more than double the infection numbers than any other country.

Mike Pence publicly told people to stay away from churches with more than 10 people.... genius, I tell you. I wonder how he came up with that. WHY does he even have to say that?

Facts force this to be political.

 

[JohnRoberts]

You're trying really hard to justify your faith in Trump.  It gets harder every day, doesn't it? 
I didn't have to go past Trump's own words(and actions) and the words of an advisor to Trump.  Maybe it's time to stop all your contortions of rationalization and admit that trumped has botched this in a big way.

Just like you admitted that the impeachment drama was partisan BS...?  :

JR

PS: I am weary of his bloviating (but I didn't care for that from day 1). I appreciate the visible results, and look forward to more testing...  Still waiting for thoughtful discussion about contact tracing that may raise privacy issues. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

where r u getting all this info from 

i prefer US expert info  ;D
https://www.terminix.com/pest-control/lady-bugs/bites/

Thanks but I saw the f'r on my arm after I felt the bite.... rare but I have first hand experience that it happened at least this once.

JR

 

[fallout]

Here's an interesting clip of Dr Fauci in January.. Nothing to see here... Move along...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-hOSZ3p_wm/?utm_source=ig_embed

 

[crazydoc]

Still waiting for thoughtful discussion about contact tracing that may raise privacy issues.

Not specific to contact tracing, but pertinent. I suppose if an infected person is detained, he is under no legal bounds to disclose his contacts, and he can just stew in detention.

d) Apprehension and examination of persons reasonably believed to be infected

(1) Regulations prescribed under this section may provide for the apprehension and examination of any individual reasonably believed to be infected with a communicable disease in a qualifying stage and (A) to be moving or about to move from a State to another State; or (B) to be a probable source of infection to individuals who, while infected with such disease in a qualifying stage, will be moving from a State to another State. Such regulations may provide that if upon examination any such individual is found to be infected, he may be detained for such time and in such manner as may be reasonably necessary. For purposes of this subsection, the term "State" includes, in addition to the several States, only the District of Columbia.

(2) For purposes of this subsection, the term "qualifying stage", with respect to a communicable disease, means that such disease—

(A) is in a communicable stage; or

(B) is in a precommunicable stage, if the disease would be likely to cause a public health emergency if transmitted to other individuals.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2018-title42/html/USCODE-2018-title42-chap6A-subchapII-partG-sec264.htm

 

[JohnRoberts]

I don't know if this is political, but they seem to be shifting away from the advice for the public "not" wear masks. I wonder how much of this advice has to do with availability? When masks were scarcer then hen's teeth they didn't want the public scarfing them all up, denying health professionals PPE, or in a panic because they can't get them but were told to wear them. 

Yesterday when I did my weekly grocery run, roughly half the geezers I saw shopping were wearing masks (some strange ones).  These days I'm a little embarrassed to wear my normal dust mask even while cutting my lawn.

JR

 

[iturnknobs]

Here's an interesting clip of Dr Fauci in January.. Nothing to see here... Move along...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-hOSZ3p_wm/?utm_source=ig_embed

Feb 16th CBS interview

DR. FAUCI: Well, a pandemic is when you have multiple countries throughout the world that have what's called sustained transmission from person to person to person, multiple generations. Right now, there are 24 countries in which there were over five hundred cases. Several of them are starting to get to the second and third transmission. So technically speaking, the WHO wouldn't be calling this a global pandemic, but it certainly is on the verge of that happening reasonably soon unless containment is more successful than it is right now.

Last night:

Fauci on Anderson Cooper:

"I don't understand why a nationwide stay-at-home order is not in place."

This is the man advising Trump. Logic would explain where the problem lies.

 

[kambo]

ie  wyoming:  they dont have state wide stay at home orders, but they have stay at home when possible recommendation statewide , thats from early days...
whole state population is about 1/2 milion and ur nearest neighbour is no closer than 4-5 miles!
their city center is smaller than my friends backyard!  they have different rules for the city center etc!
so our loved Anderson the ass is not telling the whole story as usual, nor the other asses from FOX!

so sad!

 

[hodad]

Just like you admitted that the impeachment drama was partisan BS...?  :

JR

What is on display with Trump's so-called "leadership" in this crisis shows why he was unfit to be president in the first place (yes, he got elected, but that doesn't mean he's fit to serve).  I'll admit that there was partisan BS at work in that the Republican senators refused to throw him out on his ear when he so richly deserved it. 

 

[kambo]

i would recommend watching old documentary 11/9 by Michael Moore
Obama is the number one reason we have Trump.

 

[L´Andratté]

Here's an interesting clip of Dr Fauci in January.. Nothing to see here... Move along...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-hOSZ3p_wm/?utm_source=ig_embed

From the instagram commentary...

This is on 2/2009. That's the year Donald C Alexander Died..look at the bottom of the screen!!

 

[iturnknobs]

Does anyone recall voting for Jared Kushner? The blind are putting the blind, deaf and dumb in charge. Can anyone cite credentials that would qualify this person for his newly found responsibilities? When will the stupidity stop? When will the people see? When enough people die, and I don't know what that number is:

(ABC NEWS)Until Friday morning, the website of the Department of Health and Human Services, which maintains the stockpile, read, "When state, local, tribal, and territorial responders request federal assistance to support their response efforts, the stockpile ensures that the right medicines and supplies get to those who need them most during an emergency."

But midday Friday, hours after Kushner directly contradicted the language on the HHS website, the text was changed without explanation. Retroactively matching what Kushner said, the website no longer says states can rely on the stockpile, but now says it exists to “supplement” them.Until Friday morning, the website of the Department of Health and Human Services, which maintains the stockpile, read, "When state, local, tribal, and territorial responders request federal assistance to support their response efforts, the stockpile ensures that the right medicines and supplies get to those who need them most during an emergency."

But midday Friday, hours after Kushner directly contradicted the language on the HHS website, the text was changed without explanation. Retroactively matching what Kushner said, the website no longer says states can rely on the stockpile, but now says it exists to “supplement” them..

That's the biggest "it's not my fault/responsibility" I've ever seen... with backpedaling. I believe the proper thing to say is: "We're going to do our very best to provide localities with what they need as this pandemic progresses." Not this administration.