covid politics

[Gold]

Trump's had no taste since long before he was riddled with corona so, to be expected really.

His buildings are crap too. I’ve come to believe that any residential building with a fancy lobby means the apartments suck. His buildings start falling down the minute they are put up. All sizzle no steak.

 

[john12ax7]

I’ve come to believe that any residential building with a fancy lobby means the apartments suck.

Definitely true for a lot of places in LA.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

His buildings are crap too. I’ve come to believe that any residential building with a fancy lobby means the apartments suck. His buildings start falling down the minute they are put up. All sizzle no steak.

Haha, yep  

"Fur coat and no knickers" is how my mom would have put it

 

[scott2000]

And by the way, the ‘miracles coming down from God’ emergency antibody treatment that Trump received last week was developed with the use of a cell line originally derived from abortion tissue.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/10/07/1009664/trumps-antibody-treatment-was-tested-using-cells-from-an-abortion/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTWCQTkv0VA&feature=emb_logo

 

[Gold]

Haha, yep  

"Fur coat and no knickers" is how my mom would have put it

Sounds right up his alley.

 

[living sounds]

Do you have enough training and experience to draw this conclusion?

I have some skeptical training, which means to learn how to evaluate evidence and expertise of others. You'll be hard pressed to find actual experts in the relevant fields and/or quality studies that give any credence to notions like acupuncture or homeopathy.

Even so, most mechanisms are unknown,  until they aren't. Were gravity,  electricity and magnetism BS before their mechanisms were understood?

That logical fallacy is called an "argument from ignorance". It also falls into the "god of the gaps" cluster.

The logic behind it can be subsumed as: "We don't know, therefore magic."

But we do know. And there is no mechanism at all for these things to work. And all the quality scientific studies done show them not to work. On top of it, whe understand the psychology behind believe in treatments based on magical thinking.

So it really should be case closed.

That these treaments are adopted in some places has nothing to do with efficacy and more with their ability to generate profit and with the patients psychological needs.

None of this means that "western" medicine as it is practised today couldn't and shouldn't be improved. But resorting to magic is not improving anything.

 

[john12ax7]

You'll be hard pressed to find actual experts in the relevant fields and/or quality studies that give any credence to notions like acupuncture or homeopathy.

You can find them at places like elite research universities. I even know some personally (in other alternative fields). So maybe do a little more digging.

That logical fallacy is called an "argument from ignorance".

Nope.  Something can be shown to exist without knowing its mechanism for existence. You are conflating the two.

 

[iturnknobs]

[quote author=itirnknobslink=topic=74494.msg966185#msg966185 date=1601645605]
Prepare for an exponential increase in stupidity if Trump shakes this off with no issues. Regardless of my wishes or not, most know what I am saying "holds some water".

It's like I'm a crystal ball...

"I feel so powerful, I'll walk into that audience. I'll walk in there, I'll kiss everyone in that audience," Trump said in Sanford, Florida, showing his illness did not teach him to respect his own government's pandemic guidelines. "I'll kiss the guys and the beautiful women and the -- everybody. I'll just give everybody a big, fat kiss.
-DJT

I literally wish this virus on all Trump supporters. They have publicly endangered everyone around them and outwardly asked for it, even before I openly wished it. Republican? May your children suffer.

 

[crazydoc]

Osteopaths have the same training as allopathic (MD) physicians, and maybe a little extra as far as cracking backs and the like. I've worked with a number of osteopaths, and they hold their own with MD's - both the good, the bad and the ugly.

Dr. Conley's comments have nothing to do with his training, but rather from being between a rock and a hard place (not that that excuses him).

A succinct explanation of USA osteopathic training:
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/938918?nlid=137807_426&src=WNL_mdplsfeat_201013_mscpedit_fmed&uac=37266AR&spon=34&impID=2618458&faf=1#vp_1

 

[living sounds]

I thought I had posted this, too:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/osteopathic-medicine-what-is-it/

 

[crazydoc]

I thought I had posted this, too:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/osteopathic-medicine-what-is-it/

Yes, you had - good article. I just thought I'd link another. 

 

[iturnknobs]

This guy's got my vote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/amid-soaring-cases-north-dakota-ballots-include-gop-candidate-whos-already-died-covid-1540113%3famp=1

 

[JohnRoberts]

It is more than a little disappointing that more than one governor is casting doubt about COVID vaccines.

The low information public is already distrustful about vaccines and don't need high profile politicians discouraging their use even further.

Luckily these vaccines will probably be in short supply at first so the ignorant doubters can just take a pass, leaving more for us during the early rounds, but I hope they don't kill any friends or aged relatives by not protecting themselves and others.

JR

 

[hodad]

It is more than a little disappointing that more than one governor is casting doubt about COVID vaccines.

More than one governor has cast doubt on Trump's assertion that a vaccine can be brought safely to market by election day.  But so have a lot of sane and intelligent people.  Trump is playing politics and offering false hope--he should be called out. 

There are very real concerns that need to be addressed regarding the virus.  Obviously, production and distribution will be challenging.  But it's worth noting that most if not all of the vaccine frontrunners have to be stored at extremely low temperatures.  This has the potential to be problematic in rural and medically underserved areas.  I'm a 15 minute drive from 5 hospitals and the CDC, so I'm not worried.  But things might be a little different down in Hickory, Mississippi.

 

[living sounds]

Vaccines also need to be manufactured first. And administered. And then they need to provide immunity for longer than a Covid-19 infection often seems to provide (I've read about antibodies waning 3-4 months after successfully battling the disease) and they need to provide immunity against the strains of virus actually circulating.

It looks like a tall order, and it might take years for humanity to get rid of this virus...

 

[iturnknobs]

It is more than a little disappointing that more than one governor is casting doubt about COVID vaccines...    ...so the ignorant doubters can just take a pass...

Just like you couldn't be paid to follow Twitter, I couldn't be paid to trust Trump on a vaccine... because I follow his tweets and lies... over 20,000 false public statements so far in this administration. Educated doubters, I think you meant.

 

[crazydoc]

How the world’s greatest public health organization was brought to its knees by a virus, the president and the capitulation of its own leaders, causing damage that could last much longer than the coronavirus.

https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-fall-of-the-cdc

 

[JohnRoberts]

More than one governor has cast doubt on Trump's assertion that a vaccine can be brought safely to market by election day.  But so have a lot of sane and intelligent people.  Trump is playing politics and offering false hope--he should be called out. 

There are very real concerns that need to be addressed regarding the virus.  Obviously, production and distribution will be challenging.  But it's worth noting that most if not all of the vaccine frontrunners have to be stored at extremely low temperatures.  This has the potential to be problematic in rural and medically underserved areas.  I'm a 15 minute drive from 5 hospitals and the CDC, so I'm not worried.  But things might be a little different down in Hickory, Mississippi.

I consider false hope (aka optimism) far less harmful than casting shade on vaccines when they finally become available. I have worked with inspirational (to some) business leaders and they commonly make unrealistic requests. If they ask for 10 they might get 6, while if they ask for 5 they are more likely to only get 4.

It typically takes years to develop successful vaccines and the progress made with western COVID vaccines is pretty remarkable for speed. Less impressive are vaccine efforts in Russia and China where they skipped or shortened the human safety trials. The western vaccines are under a microscope for safety testing.

=====

I am happy that you live within 15 minutes of 3 hospitals, I hope you don't need them.

I am unsure about all your personal attention (trolling?) but I live about 25 minutes from the nearest cluster of 3+ hospitals (Meridian). For almost 15 years I made that daily commute to Peavey headquarters. I don't expect to need 3 hospitals or even one hospital to get a vaccination. My local clinic is walking distance. More likely mass inoculations will be done in a Walmart parking lot or something like that.       

Yes I have heard the reports about some vaccines requiring serious cold storage. This is actually already the case for some medicines (perhaps same technology) as my neighbor the druggist has mentioned before. Some vaccines are reporting a stronger antibody response than natural recovery from COVID, especially in older patients (a good thing).  I remain apprehensive about the coronavirus aspect of COVID, we may end up with annual vaccines just like the flu, with similar efficacy (i.e. so-so).

The good news about being old is that time goes by much faster... the bad news is being old.  But this too will pass. 8)

JR

PS: If you doubt the vaccine because of who is POTUS (which isn't even rational) try not to kill your older relatives or friends by boycotting immunity. I suspect after a couple weeks from now, the vaccines will be considered safe again.  :

 

[hodad]

PS: If you doubt the vaccine because of who is POTUS (which isn't even rational) try not to kill your older relatives or friends by boycotting immunity. I suspect after a couple weeks from now, the vaccines will be considered safe again.  :

It's not who is POTUS, it's who POTUS is.  I don't know if you've noticed, but he lies a lot.  Many of his underlings have wound up in jail.  He is not to be trusted. 
Why would I consider him more believable on vaccine delivery (when his claims obviously are politically motivated) when he lies about nearly everything nearly constantly? 
Do you really define "optimism" as believing the unfounded claims of an inveterate liar? 

 

[crazydoc]

It's pretty clear to me that vaccines transparently vetted by the medical establishment will be a reasonable choice, and I will get one. What the current POTUS says (whether he keeps his job or gets fired) has absolutely no bearing on vaccination. He is not only an ignoramus, but a narcissistic prevaricator, and his opinion on anything belongs in the trash bin.